reviving this because ive yet to read any rhyme or reason to this issue... i know its happening, and i know after market clutches appear to be accelerating the failure... but like others have asked, IE built motor still utilizes OEM Thrust bearing. so what exactly is going on?
is my only option to trade in for a DSG to have peace of mind? lol
2018 Golf R IGM 6spd
-When starting the car clutch in until the engine starts. Then clutch out as soon as it starts.
-Never keeping the clutch pressed in when at a red light.
I'd like to do a dq500 swap, but the cost is a tad steep to do the whole swapperoo.
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When it comes to this powertrain the word 'depressing' certainly belongs in the same sentence as 'clutch'.
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- shifter assembly
- DSG ECM
- wiring harness for the transmission
- Gas & brake peddles from a DSG car
- possibly both front axles
- possibly prop shaft
- maybe rear differential from a DSG car (can't confirm that)
- and obviously the DSG transmission itself
- if you have a R you'd also need the additional aux cooler that goes on the driver's side. This would also need to include the mounting hardware and plastic liners and ducting.
There's alot to it and if you can get your hands on a donor car to get all the needed parts (wwe.copart.com is the best bet) that would honestly be your best bet so that you're not searching for parts that may be needed.
Nobody does this swap because it makes no financial sense to do it. I get the sweat equity portion but you're still much better off taking your car back to stock and then buying a factory DSG car. I wouldn't even think of doing that swap on my own, I'm sure there's quite a bit of coding that the dealer needs to do and they're not going to have a clue.
I recently rented a Golf wagon that was DSG because I had ankle surgery and couldn't drive my car. While I appreciated the fact that I could drive it, it was incredibly boring. I know this is just my opinion but all a DSG really is, is a fancy automatic transmission. Most the time I'm going to leave it in D and that's it. I don't drag race, won't be using launch control on the street and don't have a nasty commute with heavy traffic. So there's simply no reason for me to choose it over a 6MT, if I lived somewhere that I had a really bad commute then I'd get it.
I'm not concerned about crank walk. Does it happen? Sure but not in such a widespread degree that you should think about doing a DSG swap or selling your car to replace it with a DSG unless that's something you want for other reasons.
The DD : '19 Golf R, Indium, 6MT
The Fun Ride : '03 Porsche 911 Turbo, 6MT
And the best way of doing this is to buy a donor car so that all the parts that would be needed for the swap can easily be swapped over.
It saddens me that the wagon version of the RS3 and also the RSQ3 will likely never make it state side. I LOVE hatchbacks after owning three golfs and wouldn't trade them for anything else but another hatch
Welp folks, it happened.
About a month and a half ago now I was driving and noticed some odd behavior.
- Revs weren't hanging as much between shifts (felt like more resistance)
- Car had a rough idle with the clutch in when stopped (vac surge, lots of NVH)
I ended up turning around and went right home. On my drive back, suspicious of what the issue was, I tried the hard right hand turn trick to see if I could get the clutch pedal to stick down and I couldnt.
By the time I got home the car went "back to normal" as in none of the above were able to be replicated. I was still weary though as something didn't seem right.
Ended up draining the oil the next day only to find a bunch of glitter... Cut up the filter and found some decent slivers in there but nothing massive.
Called up the local dealer that was supposedly mod friendly and explained the situation of crank walk, me being tuned, the clutch, etc and was told that they should be able to work with me and I should bring it in to have the pan dropped for a basic inspection. I figured at worst I would be out the ~$150 discussed for the service visit so I had the car towed via VW Roadside (for free mind you, thanks CPO) and left it at the dealer for about a week. Upon their instruction I dropped the car off without oil and a filter in it and left a note stating this and to not start the engine. I included the contaminated oil in the passenger footwell for inspection. Finally got the call from their writer stating that they were denying any warranty work due to the TD1 flag and I'll be billed for the diagnostic (that didn't happen) and oil and a filter... Basically, they got the car, filled it with oil, drove it around, and then scanned it with ODIS at which point it threw the TD1 and they stopped doing any and all work.
I ended up arguing with them about this process because I never approved nor was asked about the oil and they never dropped the pan to inspect for damage, just ran the scan and looked at the oil I'd provided. So they took a car that was delivered with a failing engine and drove it more... Needless to say I was pissed, so I fought to get the oil and filter off the invoice (which they did) and towed it to an independent shop in the area where it has been for over six weeks now.
They essentially let it sit for about a month before getting the engine out.
- Week 1: No update
- Week 2: Dropped pan, found metal, could move crank by hand, doesn't look good, need to pull engine.
- Week 3: Nothing.
- Week 4: Nothing
- Week 5: Engine pulled by Friday
- Week 6: Nothing until I called them out and now the ball is rolling
- Week 7: Brings us to today, engine is out and apart.
So after finally getting word that the engine is being torn down, I get the call eventually that the washer had not fallen into the pan yet, but was sent a picture of a definitely destroyed trans side thrust washer. Per their tech's claim, the bottom end is still usable and everything else looked okay. The only thing that took any damage besides the washer was the crank itself.
It appears that I caught this just in time as any longer and that washer could've fallen and the entire engine would be toast. Still, not going to be a cheap repair. I'm working with them now and just got the crank on order but that'll probably be a few weeks out. We're going to have a local machine shop modify the center main bearing cap to accept a 1.8T lower thrust washer as this is a "fix" that's been pioneered by some genius swedes and performed by some cunning Canadians. The idea is that it'd take a good amount of stress off of the one half face washer and also prevent that one from being able to fall should it wear past that point.
At any rate, it's been a stressful process to say the least. If you are a 6MT owner and experience ANY odd clutch related behavior, I'd certainly recommend the early oil change to inspect what comes out for any signs of wear. Better to catch it early than when it's too late, and certainly worth the $50 an oil change costs for the peace of mind should you find nothing.
If anyone has any questions just let me know. I can provide pictures of carnage once I've got the crank in hand.
Also I should note, I don't blame the shop for taking so long. It's a tough time right now, they've got a lot on their plate I'm sure. Would I have preferred my car to have breezed right through? Sure, but that doesn't always happen. They're a good shop, they do good work, and their pricing is generally reasonable albeit on the higher side of that spectrum.
Regarding the dealership, (this is more a question for the forum than you in particular) is it the general/expected experience that even a mod-friendly dealer would reject or deny warranty work for something like this? Granted, I know the percentage of those of us impacted isn't as high as, say 50%, but it's common enough that it comes up a ton in the forums and on Facebook groups as well. This means VW can't possibly deny build quality or engineering flaws on this transmission. Regardless of mods, since it's occurred on plenty of stock setups, could it not be argued that it's justifiable to push back on this? The alternative in worse-case scenario is a new engine, which is something most of us don't and can't afford to plan for.
Are the symptoms pretty much limited to the clutch holding/sinking on a hard right-hand turn + revs not being normal + rough idle with clutch engaged?
I just had a ****ty aftermarket (presumably) stage 2 clutch replaced in my R that had already been involved in crank walk on the original engine (it was replaced with an A3 engine before I bought it). It now has the semi-famous TTRS clutch kit installed, which lacks in performance but can still hold the power of my APR stage 2 tune.
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It's hit or miss depending on the dealership you go to and the tech that does the diagnostic on your car. The second they see a TD1 flag, most just toss their hands up and blame the tune, but the good ones keep digging to find the root cause. I've seen tuned engines window the block and get it replaced under warranty, yet a BS poor engineering issue won't.
Generally the first symptoms that I've seen is what I described above. I hadn't seen anyone else post about those before, just the sticking pedal in right turns, different clutch pedal feel, etc. Those last two are essentially the "hey, your engine is about to blow" signs, and then if you let it keep going, eventually you'll get low oil pressure and it'll actually go.
Pricing out the work, it's almost cheaper to buy an S3 engine from LKQ for $3k and pay someone to toss it in than it is to pay them to pull and tear down your engine, inspect, rebuild, and reinstall. I'm looking at nothing shy of $4,000 on this one...
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I'm hoping and assuming all of the wear and material is from the trashed washer.
I just ordered a new crank, so they better be right... If the block and other things are indeed trashed and I just wasted $900 on a new crank there'll be words for sure. But at this point what can I do other than take their word for it?
If there are slivers then the crank has to have been grinding on something other than the washer. It was grinding into the block when you were pushing in the clutch. I don't want to cause alarm, but I have never seen anyone salvage a motor that had crankwalk. Once that washer dislodges itself they very next time you push on the clutch=grinding away the block. So unless you caught it and stopped driving before that happened it is done for. I don't want you to have wasted money on a crank either. Also, all that metal will have gotten in things like the oil pump, are they planning on pulling it too? Did they scope the cylinders to make sure there is no scoring? You are taking a huge risk. Are they going to guarantee their work and credit it towards a new motor if this doesn't work?
Images attached are of the oil from the filter housing, and two shots of one half of the filter. I've had this thought in the back of my mind the whole time when they told me it's just the crank, but I'm not sure what they'd have to gain by half-assing a rebuild.