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    Thread: Regular Unleaded vs Premeum

    1. Semi-n00b
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      07-21-2019 08:58 PM #1
      What have you been told by your Dealership regarding running Unleaded vs Premium gas in the Arteon? I was told that at Sea Level it was OK to run 87 octane in the Arteon, what do you think?
      Last edited by cpogordon; 07-21-2019 at 09:21 PM.

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      07-21-2019 09:26 PM #2
      Does it say Premium Unleaded inside your gas door?

      Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

    4. 07-21-2019 09:27 PM #3
      I am very interested in figuring this out as well.

      On one hand, the manual says: "The correct fuel grade for your engine is shown on a sticker on the inside of the fuel filler flap Fig. 160 . Using gasoline that does not meet minimum octane requirements can cause loss of engine performance, while the use of poor quality gasoline or octane levels below 87 can also cause engine damage. If Regular gasoline is recommended for your engine, you may be able to enhance engine performance by using Premium gasoline."

      The Arteon's fuel filler flap says "PREMIUM unleaded fuel only" and "min. 91 AKI (R+M)/2"

      On the other hand, the Arteon's engine uses a compression ratio of 9.3:1, and from what I read online (e.g. http://www.dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/.../trans/b/b.htm): "Generally, engines with compression ratios of 9.3 : 1 or less will safely operate with unleaded 87 octane fuel. Engines with higher compression ratios usually require higher octane fuels."

      Would it be safe to use 87 octane?

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      07-21-2019 09:40 PM #4
      Years and countless hours went into developing your engine. Audi determined that 91 is the best AKI fuel in North America for performance and fuel efficiency.

      A turbo charger is forcing your engine to produce more power than it could on it's own. Tons of pressure inside of that combustion chamber. The least you could do for the best experience is run premium fuel.

      Legally in North America your car has to be able to run on 87. 91+ for best performance.

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      Last edited by chrisjackd; 07-21-2019 at 09:44 PM.

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      07-21-2019 09:46 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by buffym View Post
      I am very interested in figuring this out as well.

      On one hand, the manual says: "The correct fuel grade for your engine is shown on a sticker on the inside of the fuel filler flap Fig. 160 . Using gasoline that does not meet minimum octane requirements can cause loss of engine performance, while the use of poor quality gasoline or octane levels below 87 can also cause engine damage. If Regular gasoline is recommended for your engine, you may be able to enhance engine performance by using Premium gasoline."

      The Arteon's fuel filler flap says "PREMIUM unleaded fuel only" and "min. 91 AKI (R+M)/2"

      On the other hand, the Arteon's engine uses a compression ratio of 9.3:1, and from what I read online (e.g. http://www.dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/.../trans/b/b.htm): "Generally, engines with compression ratios of 9.3 : 1 or less will safely operate with unleaded 87 octane fuel. Engines with higher compression ratios usually require higher octane fuels."

      Would it be safe to use 87 octane?
      Yes, it does say Premium unleaded fuel but I believe my 2009 Tiguan also said premium but the dealership told me then, and now, that at Sea Level, Florida, using 87 octane was fine. I also saw a report on Consumer Reports where they ran 87 octane in cars requiring premium and saw no difference in performance or mpg. I think the compression ratio is the key. I don't want to throw away .30 to .60 cents a gallon if it's not needed, but I also don't want to mess the engine up saving .30 to .60 cents per gallon. I was told it was OK but I'm just looking for more input before I make any decisions on what I do over a longer period of time.
      Last edited by cpogordon; 07-21-2019 at 09:56 PM.

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      07-21-2019 10:19 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by cpogordon View Post
      Yes, it does say Premium unleaded fuel but I believe my 2009 Tiguan also said premium but the dealership told me then, and now, that at Sea Level, Florida, using 87 octane was fine. I also saw a report on Consumer Reports where they ran 87 octane in cars requiring premium and saw no difference in performance or mpg. I think the compression ratio is the key. I don't want to throw away .30 to .60 cents a gallon if it's not needed, but I also don't want to mess the engine up saving .30 to .60 cents per gallon. I was told it was OK but I'm just looking for more input before I make any decisions on what I do over a longer period of time.
      87 would be okay at higher elevations, not lower. A dealer will tell you anything to make the car seem more appealing to the buyer. Do not doubt the manufacturers findings.

      You should walk to the back of the dealer and ask the technician that works on the car what they recommend...

      Also ask yourself if you want the best performance, efficiency, and longevity. If you answer yes to any of those then you should choose premium at the pump.

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      Last edited by chrisjackd; 07-21-2019 at 10:21 PM.

    9. Member randyvr6's Avatar
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      07-21-2019 10:40 PM #7
      All I know is that I bought a $40K car knowing it required premium. Not going to try and save a few $ a week by using regular gas
      Last edited by randyvr6; 07-21-2019 at 10:48 PM.

    10. 07-22-2019 12:19 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by buffym View Post
      I am very interested in figuring this out as well.

      On one hand, the manual says: "The correct fuel grade for your engine is shown on a sticker on the inside of the fuel filler flap Fig. 160 . Using gasoline that does not meet minimum octane requirements can cause loss of engine performance, while the use of poor quality gasoline or octane levels below 87 can also cause engine damage. If Regular gasoline is recommended for your engine, you may be able to enhance engine performance by using Premium gasoline."

      The Arteon's fuel filler flap says "PREMIUM unleaded fuel only" and "min. 91 AKI (R+M)/2"

      On the other hand, the Arteon's engine uses a compression ratio of 9.3:1, and from what I read online (e.g. http://www.dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/.../trans/b/b.htm): "Generally, engines with compression ratios of 9.3 : 1 or less will safely operate with unleaded 87 octane fuel. Engines with higher compression ratios usually require higher octane fuels."

      Would it be safe to use 87 octane?
      Any pre-ignition caused by the 87 octane should be compensated for via the knock sensor’s input to the engine management system.

      That means even if it’s safe to put 87 in an Arteon it will be because the vehicle’s computer reduces performance accordingly. So if saving 10$ at the pump is worth making a 40K purchase feel 15K cheaper have at it.

      If cost is the primary factor in fueling an Arteon I’d guess more long-term damage would occur due to either an inadequate amount of additives in the fuel (see the section on Top Tier Fuels in your manual) or bad/old gas from some random station’s tanks, which we see more than you’d think.

      Those repairs generally run 800-2K depending on which issue and the extent of the damage. So there’s other potential costs to consider down the road.

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      07-22-2019 12:38 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by vw_service_advisor View Post
      Any pre-ignition caused by the 87 octane should be compensated for via the knock sensor’s input to the engine management system.

      That means even if it’s safe to put 87 in an Arteon it will be because the vehicle’s computer reduces performance accordingly. So if saving 10$ at the pump is worth making a 40K purchase feel 15K cheaper have at it.

      If cost is the primary factor in fueling an Arteon I’d guess more long-term damage would occur due to either an inadequate amount of additives in the fuel (see the section on Top Tier Fuels in your manual) or bad/old gas from some random station’s tanks, which we see more than you’d think.

      Those repairs generally run 800-2K depending on which issue and the extent of the damage. So there’s other potential costs to consider down the road.
      Also it's more like $9 difference between 87 and 91 over an 15 gallon fill up, it's a 60 cent spread now.

      That being said I had no moral issues when I filled up the loaner Gen1 Tiquan with 87 when I had it over the weekend.
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      07-22-2019 10:29 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by cpogordon View Post
      What have you been told by your Dealership regarding running Unleaded vs Premium gas in the Arteon? I was told that at Sea Level it was OK to run 87 octane in the Arteon, what do you think?
      Well, since you asked

      I dont think it has anything to so with ambient air pressure.

      Crappy gas in the US has been blamed on carbon intake build up in direct injection engines. My 2008 S5 is an ideal example of performance being robbed. The fuel is not the cause, but Audi is the first to blame it on the customer. I used 91 octane and still got it, but both VW and Audi will try to blame engine problems on fuel, oil changes, maintenance etc first when dealing with a repair/warranty issue..

      If you put the lowest acceptable grade, 87, in your engine and the fuel supplier falls short of that minimum octane rating then you are risking engine damage, all in the name of a few cents per gallon, when you have spend thousands on a high performace car.

      What next? put in 99c/qtr oil from costco, run S-rated cheapo tires from China? Let the kids down the block wash your car for $5 with a dirty towel?

      I dont mean to be rude, but why buy a high perfomance luxury sedan if you can't afford to operate and maintain it....

    13. Semi-n00b
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      07-22-2019 11:14 PM #11
      Just looking for input, which I got and yes I would call it rude or most likely something else but I won't. Looks like I'll be using Premium, but didn't realize I was going to get a few people riled up and casting stones just for asking the question.
      Last edited by cpogordon; 07-22-2019 at 11:43 PM.

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      07-23-2019 01:21 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by cpogordon View Post
      Just looking for input, which I got and yes I would call it rude or most likely something else but I won't. Looks like I'll be using Premium, but didn't realize I was going to get a few people riled up and casting stones just for asking the question.
      My apologies for being rude.

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      07-23-2019 07:51 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by SDArteon View Post
      Well, since you asked


      I dont mean to be rude, but why buy a high perfomance luxury sedan if you can't afford to operate and maintain it....
      I'd put a giant asterisk on that, (for VWoA) while it's almost a halo car for VWoA I'd be tough to claim the Arteon is a high performance and luxury sedan, compared to a 1.4t Jetta S sure its much nicer, compared to other 40-45K cars yeah its pretty nice, but there's still tons of room for improvement, sadly the american market won't shell out the coin for it.

      If they didn't chop 10-15K off of options form the Euro spec Arteon then you'd get much closer to a luxury car with improved performance.

      Remember the Honda Accord Sport 2.0t has about the same HP/Tq (that could be had with a manual transmission) and weighs much less yet I don't think anyone would call it a high performance car.
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      07-23-2019 10:06 AM #14
      A nice compromise is to find a gas station local to you that offers mid-grade premium gas. Virtually all stations have 87 (regular), 89 (mid), and 93/94 (premium) octanes. A few stations add a 4th grade - at 91 octane...it's the low end of premium and matches the fuel recommendation for the Arteon. I always use premium, but I have a station that is on my commute home from work that has the 91 option, and I'll use them when possible.
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    17. 07-23-2019 11:02 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by randyvr6 View Post
      All I know is that I bought a $40K car knowing it required premium. Not going to try and save a few $ a week by using regular gas
      This is my view too. It's not that I want to throw money away - but I'd rather treat my engine with a little TLC in hopes of some longer life and better performance.

    18. Semi-n00b
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      07-23-2019 11:51 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by cpogordon View Post
      Just looking for input, which I got and yes I would call it rude or most likely something else but I won't. Looks like I'll be using Premium, but didn't realize I was going to get a few people riled up and casting stones just for asking the question.
      I had the same question. I ran my CC with the 2.0 turbo on 87 octane for 10 years and never had a problem even though 91+ was recommended. Yes, I spent to buy a high end VW so perhaps I should suck it up and pay several dollars more for each tank of gas, but I don't really want to do it.

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      07-23-2019 12:21 PM #17
      omg the VWoA internet police is going to read that and remove your arteon from your possession!
      Last edited by Dieseldog12; 07-23-2019 at 02:53 PM.
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      07-23-2019 12:51 PM #18
      I'm a simple man; I go by manufacturer recommendation.
      VW recommends 91 for the Wagon and Arteon, so that's what I use. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      Same logic goes for the Engine oil spec etc.

      I kept the fuel costs in mind before buying, so I've budgeted for it.

      Still a valid question from OP, and I'm glad to see different views from fellow owners.

    21. 07-23-2019 03:18 PM #19
      I had a few Audis with carbon build up problems and Know a bit about the subject regarding octane and carbon build up. While most gas brands and gas grades have similar sulfur level, some gas supplier have more cleaning additive than others. Even among the same brand, sometime the higher octane gas will have more detergent additive than the lower grades.
      So what happens when we put lower octane gas into a car that is programmed for higher octane? Like many here already know, the knock sensor will detect pre-ignition before you can hear or feel it and retard the timing to compensate. After a while, the computer will try to advance the timing again because it is program to run at a more advance timing, when it do so, it will detect knock again because you are still using 87 gas, the timing is retarded once again. This cycle starts over and over and creates a cycle of knocking that the driver does not detect because it is so mild. Knocking comes from pre-ignition or a incomplete combustion cycle. These incomplete combustion cycles generate carbon build up. Since the pre-ignition happens with the intake valve in the wrong position, it will cause more carbon build up inside the valve. In the long run, the build up will rob the engine of power and efficiency. One of the advantage of this particular VW is the dual injection setup, port injection and direct injection. The post injection is suppose to clean up the carbon in the intake valves, I guess the question is will the knocking cause more carbon build than the port injector can clean, that's the million dollar question.
      One of my old Audi mechanic used to tell me, use only Shell V-power 93 octane on Audi engines to help it run as clean as possible. Since this VW engine is very similar, I am using strictly Shell V-power.

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      07-23-2019 03:31 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by The G Man View Post
      I had a few Audis with carbon build up problems and Know a bit about the subject regarding octane and carbon build up. While most gas brands and gas grades have similar sulfur level, some gas supplier have more cleaning additive than others. Even among the same brand, sometime the higher octane gas will have more detergent additive than the lower grades.
      So what happens when we put lower octane gas into a car that is programmed for higher octane? Like many here already know, the knock sensor will detect pre-ignition before you can hear or feel it and retard the timing to compensate. After a while, the computer will try to advance the timing again because it is program to run at a more advance timing, when it do so, it will detect knock again because you are still using 87 gas, the timing is retarded once again. This cycle starts over and over and creates a cycle of knocking that the driver does not detect because it is so mild. Knocking comes from pre-ignition or a incomplete combustion cycle. These incomplete combustion cycles generate carbon build up. Since the pre-ignition happens with the intake valve in the wrong position, it will cause more carbon build up inside the valve. In the long run, the build up will rob the engine of power and efficiency. One of the advantage of this particular VW is the dual injection setup, port injection and direct injection. The post injection is suppose to clean up the carbon in the intake valves, I guess the question is will the knocking cause more carbon build than the port injector can clean, that's the million dollar question.
      One of my old Audi mechanic used to tell me, use only Shell V-power 93 octane on Audi engines to help it run as clean as possible. Since this VW engine is very similar, I am using strictly Shell V-power.
      iirc, current US market VW/Audis do not use dual injection setups.

    23. 07-24-2019 02:01 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by The G Man View Post
      I had a few Audis with carbon build up problems and Know a bit about the subject regarding octane and carbon build up. While most gas brands and gas grades have similar sulfur level, some gas supplier have more cleaning additive than others. Even among the same brand, sometime the higher octane gas will have more detergent additive than the lower grades.
      So what happens when we put lower octane gas into a car that is programmed for higher octane? Like many here already know, the knock sensor will detect pre-ignition before you can hear or feel it and retard the timing to compensate. After a while, the computer will try to advance the timing again because it is program to run at a more advance timing, when it do so, it will detect knock again because you are still using 87 gas, the timing is retarded once again. This cycle starts over and over and creates a cycle of knocking that the driver does not detect because it is so mild. Knocking comes from pre-ignition or a incomplete combustion cycle. These incomplete combustion cycles generate carbon build up. Since the pre-ignition happens with the intake valve in the wrong position, it will cause more carbon build up inside the valve. In the long run, the build up will rob the engine of power and efficiency. One of the advantage of this particular VW is the dual injection setup, port injection and direct injection. The post injection is suppose to clean up the carbon in the intake valves, I guess the question is will the knocking cause more carbon build than the port injector can clean, that's the million dollar question.
      One of my old Audi mechanic used to tell me, use only Shell V-power 93 octane on Audi engines to help it run as clean as possible. Since this VW engine is very similar, I am using strictly Shell V-power.
      Definitely agree. The amount of cleaning additives added to each brand’s fuel is as big of a deal as proper octane.

      It’s emphasized in owner’s manuals as well. The site to reference for an official list of VW approved gas stations is https://www.toptiergas.com/

      Only thing Id add is that our experience with 18 and 19 models running a 2.0 or 1.4 so far has also has taught me to look for busy gas stations that need new gas deliveries more often. These fuel systems are really sensitive to bad fuel for some reason.

      The issue manifests as a CEL with a single cylinder misfire. Best case you run the tank out, add VW fuel additive and good gas (VW will pay for the additive once per a TSB), sometimes we have to drop the tank and clean it via an insurance claim if the problem persists though. In the middle of one right now where that wasn’t enough and Techline is having us do all the injectors.

      Honestly been surprised I haven’t seen this issue come up more on vortex.

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      07-24-2019 07:22 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by beaumisbro View Post
      iirc, current US market VW/Audis do not use dual injection setups.
      Correct, next he's gonna say the Arteon has a GPF (gas particulate filter) as well.
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      07-24-2019 07:54 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by beaumisbro View Post
      iirc, current US market VW/Audis do not use dual injection setups.
      I’m confused about this... I know the US R does not have MPI, but I I thought that the Arteon’s motor did? Do you have a source?
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    26. 07-24-2019 01:29 PM #24
      According to car and driver, we do not have dual port injectors. I was hoping we did as my wife's Lexus has it and she has no carbon build up at all with her Lexus. I guess I will keep using Shell V power as well as try to use busy gas stations and keep my fingers cross.

      https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

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      07-24-2019 01:40 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by chrisMk6TDi View Post
      I’m confused about this... I know the US R does not have MPI, but I I thought that the Arteon’s motor did? Do you have a source?
      I don't recall where I read/heard it, but locating the port injectors should be fairly easy on the engine.
      I can take a look later today.
      If someone has access to ETKA, that might be helpful too.

      I did call my local VW/Audi shop and they confirmed (US Market) DLRA/DLRB motors are DI only.
      Last edited by beaumisbro; 07-24-2019 at 01:44 PM.

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