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    Thread: VW Sr VP says "EV price parity tipping point is near" and "EVs are better for you"

    1. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      08-09-2019 01:54 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      I don't know how long it will be before they reach parity, but once it's here the naysayers will look (even more) foolish.

      Sure, it's going to take a while to change the bulk of the fleet, but 20 years from now if you're dailying a gasser you're going to seem antiquated. (And my car will be almost 75, so I'm already there.)
      I don't know what this means? Who cares? Plenty of people like antiquated stuff (as you note, you're among those people). If being considered antiquated is the only issue at stake for you, there's so much more to the EV story. Some objectively good and some of it not fully baked yet.

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      08-09-2019 01:55 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      I don't know how long it will be before they reach parity, but once it's here the naysayers will look (even more) foolish.

      Sure, it's going to take a while to change the bulk of the fleet, but 20 years from now if you're dailying a gasser you're going to seem antiquated. (And my car will be almost 75, so I'm already there.)
      Is that why we need to move to BEVs? So strangers don't think we're "antiquated"?

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      08-09-2019 02:05 PM #28
      I love ICE and the sounds/smells/fun that accompany them. Thankfully we can have both and those ICE engine cars be used as passion/collector/hobby vehicles. I really do look forward to more choice in EV cars, cheaper, easier to own and operate. Loved riding in a Model 3, for a daily driver it'd make a lot of sense. Excited to see if VW does release the BUZZ ID. That thing would be very cool
      GLi : M3 : CX5
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      08-09-2019 02:06 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      The zealots welcome it. The BEV push has nothing to do with bettering the environment or market choices. It is about forcing their way onto others and using EVs as a means for political gain. The numbers are pretty cut and dry. You have x battery capacity, you want to reduce as much emissions as possible... BEVs are prob among the worst, least efficient ways to do it. Hell, hybrids probably aren't a wise way to use those batteries. Take that battery capacity and tie it to renewable electric generation and completely wean utility customers off fossil fuels for electricity without the worries stemming from nuclear. Have those batteries cycling 24/7, rather than just the few hours a day a car is in use. But we can't even have that discussion, because the BEV future is "inevitable", and anyone who questions it is a Tesla hater

      When you try to sell people **** and tell them it's chocolate you might piss them off. This kind of holier than thou we know what's best for you nonsense is the fuel behind a lot of the anger at govt today
      Seriously, why so angry? Isn’t it Friday where you are?🥃

      From what I’ve read, the battery bank approach for power generation is also occurring, especially with renewables like solar and wind. This is paralleling the development of BEVs. Google Tesla battery farm. I believe Nissan is working on similar things.

      Also, as pointed out in this forum, numerous times, home solar/battery banking is the ultimate in energy independence.
      You’ll never be able to distill 89 octane at home.

      Regarding politics and forcing the masses to see things your way is concerned,
      Big Oil has been doing that for about 90 years.
      Where’s your rage at the fossil fuel industry?
      Last edited by whitejeep1989; 08-09-2019 at 02:09 PM.

    6. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      08-09-2019 02:06 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      And at one time when the Model T was new, people were saying that about the Model T.
      Can you post a link to the thread where somebody said this?
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
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    7. Member Travis Grundke's Avatar
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      08-09-2019 02:08 PM #31
      I don't think he's wrong about what he's saying.

      Of course, comments like this always make me laugh: people are always "selling their book".

      1. Real estate only ever goes up (says the real estate agent)
      2. Gold is the only safe haven you can buy (says the CNBC analyst who is heavily leveraged in the gold market)
      3. Stocks are poised for a major rebound (says the financial analyst who only makes money on the buy)
      4. EVs are better for you (the head of Volkswagen's electrification program)

    8. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      08-09-2019 02:08 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Have those batteries cycling 24/7, rather than just the few hours a day a car is in use. But we can't even have that discussion, because the BEV future is "inevitable", and anyone who questions it is a Tesla hater

      When you try to sell people **** and tell them it's chocolate you might piss them off. This kind of holier than thou we know what's best for you nonsense is the fuel behind a lot of the anger at govt today
      I've learned a long time ago to spend less time caring about what people are saying and pay more attention to objective data/results. There's so much hype in the EV market because, as you state, there's lots of money being invested at different stages of the electrification approach. Established companies themselves are at a bit of a tipping point---do they keep with ICE or hybrid systems or do they ride the hype train started by Tesla? Given the absolute limitations of the engineering/science/infrastructure/cost of EBs, it's a really hard decision. However, blowing up desire by making it seem like everyone should want an electric car is just hollow salesmanship. But if people listen to the story and start demanding these cars, companies will make them. However, that's a hard pill to swallow logically because no one buys EVs in any appreciable numbers at this point in time. I don't envy the automakers at this point in time.

    9. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      08-09-2019 02:12 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      You would save 90% of your gas costs going from a Suburban to damn near any ICE subcompact though.
      It's not 2005 anymore. A Suburban gets better mileage than it used to (14/16/21), and newer fullsizers even better (Expedition Max 16/18/21). ICE cars, subcompact, compact, midsize, or fullsize all top out at twice the mileage of a fullsize SUV, ~low 30s City, ~40 Highway. There's a plateau there that takes either extreme downsizing (Mirage), diesel (Cruze now gone), or electrification (like a $20k hybrid Corolla) to break through.

      Best case with a hybrid you'll save 70% of fuel costs vs. a fullsize SUV. Smaller gas ICE, best case is more like 50%.

      Pure math I think a used ~$10k hybrid is always going to beat out a new EV. But it's 2019 and now there's ~$10k used EVs too (BEV and PHEV).

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      08-09-2019 02:32 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      From what I’ve read, the battery bank approach for power generation is also occurring, especially with renewables like solar and wind. This is paralleling the development of BEVs. Google Tesla battery farm. I believe Nissan is working on similar things.

      Also, as pointed out in this forum, numerous times, home solar/battery banking is the ultimate in energy independence.
      You’ll never be able to distill 89 octane at home.

      Regarding politics and forcing the masses to see things your way is concerned,
      Big Oil has been doing that for about 90 years.
      Where’s your rage at the fossil fuel industry?
      I know that development is happening in parallel. Thing is, even though that is a superior tech in that space, there aren't mandates demanding that everyone disconnect from the grid to get a battery bank + solar farm + wind turbines. The tech has got where it is through subsidies and help, but not forcing people to buy in at gun point.

      Not sure what relevance big oil has here... even now it's still the most viable fuel for transportation, and has been for the last 90 years. 20, 30, 50 years ago an electric vehicle was just not feasible.

      Look, I am not saying we shouldn't pursue EVs at all. I am just confused with the contradictions coming from its most aggressive proponents. EVs are getting more affordable, yet we need to increase subsidies to accelerate adoption. EV conversion is inevitable, but we need to legislate mandates banning sales of non EVs in the future. Etc. This blatant cognitive dissonance undermines the credibility of EV proponents. They need to approach things in a more logical way.

    11. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      08-09-2019 02:39 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by chucchinchilla View Post
      Everyone does know it and has discussed it at length. Nobody brings it up anymore because what's there to discuss? It's like walking around modern day Berlin asking everyone about Hitler. They know, it's a regrettable time in history for them, they've paid their dues, and they've moved on.
      Yet another analogy which makes zero sense---very Chris V of you. So the decisions made by modern day Berliners are influenced directly and based on the Nazi history of the city? Huh, I didn't get that sense when I was there last year.

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      08-09-2019 02:41 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      It's not 2005 anymore. A Suburban gets better mileage than it used to (14/16/21), and newer fullsizers even better (Expedition Max 16/18/21). ICE cars, subcompact, compact, midsize, or fullsize all top out at twice the mileage of a fullsize SUV, ~low 30s City, ~40 Highway. There's a plateau there that takes either extreme downsizing (Mirage), diesel (Cruze now gone), or electrification (like a $20k hybrid Corolla) to break through.

      Best case with a hybrid you'll save 70% of fuel costs vs. a fullsize SUV. Smaller gas ICE, best case is more like 50%.

      Pure math I think a used ~$10k hybrid is always going to beat out a new EV. But it's 2019 and now there's ~$10k used EVs too (BEV and PHEV).
      I was exaggerating. Point is using the savings from going from an older Suburban to an EV you can charge for free as representative of anything is... disingenuous

      In reality, the cost savings between something like a Leaf and an Ioniq or Prius... vehicles similar in price, size and performance... is negligible. Even compared to something like a Civic 1.5T, payback is over 7 years.

    13. 08-09-2019 02:45 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      As for the article, I'm sure the internal slogan for the Eurocrats forcing EVs to be a thing is something like "ELEKTROAUTO MACHT FREI"

      Lol @ this VW exec... consumers are not stupid, and if there is broad resistance against EVs it's probably for good reason. These are the same Eurocrats who pushed for diesel.... "Ooops". Weak payback, inconvenience, new fire dangers... and for me personally, the wasteful use of limited battery capacity to reduce emissions (i.e. a 1 kWh in a regular hybrid is 15-20x more effective at reducing emissions in a BEV, even if the BEV is charged with renewable energy) are big turnoffs

      But there's no convincing a bureaucrat that their grand, politically advantageous idea, or even worse, a BEV evangelist's new religion, might actually be total horse****

      I say this as someone who spent the early majority of his career in green energy and finance

      I think VWAG has realized they cannot change the minds of EU and Chinese regulators, and by extension are going to roll the dice on moving to EVs and rely on propaganda like this to convince people to make the objectionally questionable switch.

      What a shame

      Well said.

      The EU is a burden upon the backs of EVERY ordinary citizen on that Continent that's country is a member of it. Much of the
      general population want out of that monstrosity, only the elites that profit off of it want to stay involved. EU is nothing but autocrats
      with NO accountability.

    14. 08-09-2019 02:53 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      You would save 90% of your gas costs going from a Suburban to damn near any ICE subcompact though.
      Fair enough.

      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      Can you post a link to the thread where somebody said this?


      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      It's not 2005 anymore. A Suburban gets better mileage than it used to, and newer fullsizers even better. ICE cars, subcompact, compact, midsize, or fullsize all top out at twice the mileage of a fullsize SUV, ~low 30s City, ~40 Highway.

      Best case with a hybrid you'll save 70% of fuel costs vs. a fullsize SUV. Smaller gas ICE, best case is more like 50%.
      After reading your post, I decided to do some more quick math related to a full-on BEV. Let's say I had a shiny near-new subcompact that ran on regular unleaded and could achieve 40 mpg combined average in my day-to-day use. At $3.00 per gallon and if I drive 750 miles each month, I'd be spending $56.25 on fuel every 30 days. While I currently average 4.8-5.2 miles/kWh in my Leaf, let's say I begin driving more aggressively and drop a bit to only 4.5 miles/kWh. If I did all my charging at home and drove those same 750 miles, I'd spend $14.60 on Leaf electricity each month. This represents a savings of 75% compared to the fuel-sipping gasser.

      Think I drive too gently? Fine. Let's say I only manage 3.8 miles/kWh (which is comparable to what I see a YouTube Bolt EV driver achieve during 75 MPH road trips). Even then, my monthly electricity cost would climb to just $17.29, which is still 70% less than the 40 mpg subcompact.

      In my mind, if you're considering buying an HEV it makes sense to go all in and choose a PHEV instead (assuming an all-out BEV cannot meet your needs). Why burn less gas day-to-day when you could burn no gas instead?

      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      Pure math I think a used ~$10k hybrid is always going to beat out a new EV. But it's 2019 and now there's ~$10k used EVs too (BEV and PHEV).
      Exactly. Every one of my current ICE vehicles was purchased used, so it only felt natural to do the same when I wanted to buy a BEV. (shrug)
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    15. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      08-09-2019 03:20 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      I was exaggerating. Point is using the savings from going from an older Suburban to an EV you can charge for free as representative of anything is... disingenuous

      In reality, the cost savings between something like a Leaf and an Ioniq or Prius... vehicles similar in price, size and performance... is negligible. Even compared to something like a Civic 1.5T, payback is over 7 years.
      Exaggerating the difference between an inefficient gas vehicle and an efficient one, and then minimizing the difference between an HEV and a BEV is... disingenuous.

      Granted, regional difference mean a lot. Where I live, a 55mpg hybrid like a Prius would cost me $0.06/mi ($3.28/gal). An EV charged at home can get under $0.02 ($0.075/kWh all-in off peak, ~4mi/kWh). It gets closer in places where gas is cheap and electricity expensive. Sounds like TurboMinivan doesn't drive much, but if you're like me and do 1500 miles a month, the BEV saves an additional $60/mo compared to the hybrid.

      1500 miles in a
      Suburban - $307.50
      Edge - $213.91
      Civic 1.5T CVT - $136.67
      Rav4 Hybrid - $123.00
      Prius - $94.62
      Leaf - $33.75
      IoniqEV - $28.13

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      08-09-2019 03:33 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      Exaggerating the difference between an inefficient gas vehicle and an efficient one, and then minimizing the difference between an HEV and a BEV is... disingenuous.

      Granted, regional difference mean a lot. Where I live, a 55mpg hybrid like a Prius would cost me $0.06/mi ($3.28/gal). An EV charged at home can get under $0.02 ($0.075/kWh all-in off peak, ~4mi/kWh). It gets closer in places where gas is cheap and electricity expensive. Sounds like TurboMinivan doesn't drive much, but if you're like me and do 1500 miles a month, the BEV saves an additional $60/mo compared to the hybrid.

      1500 miles in a
      Suburban - $307.50
      Edge - $213.91
      Civic 1.5T CVT - $136.67
      Rav4 Hybrid - $123.00
      Prius - $94.62
      Leaf - $33.75
      IoniqEV - $28.13
      Like I said, if you have access to TOU rates the equation obviously changes. But on average, where gas generally costs $2.50, not $3.28; and residential electricity generally costs $0.11 24/7, not $0.02 during off peak TOU periods, the payback is pretty weak compared to an efficient hybrid. Everyone speaks to EV savings as a foregone conclusion when in reality, as you said, regional differences mean a lot, and generally aren't as strong as pro EV folks want everyone to assume. Even at the 20K miles a year I drive a Leaf would save me like $15 a month vs an Ioniq. There would have to be other reasons for me to get the Leaf

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      08-09-2019 03:40 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      There are so many real world advantages to EVs, I can all but guarantee price (and recharge time/infrastructure) is the only real thing stopping us from mass adoption.

      Think about it:

      1. Commoditized power (no "it has a Ferrari engine in it" or "it's a VW engine" discussion...everything uses the same basic power building blocks from suppliers)
      2. EV performance advantages (we're already seeing hybridization in supercars and sports cars, and I have yet to meet someone who has driven a Tesla NOT rave about it)
      3. EV performance advantages 2 (the ability to route power electrically using software instead of mechanical LSDs/All wheel drive systems, reduced complexity)
      4. Easier servicing (much reduced moving parts, no oil changes, easier on brakes)
      5. Home refueling (most people can use the car with ONLY recharging in their garages at night)
      6. Ease of use/driving (regen braking allowing for 1 pedal operation)
      7. EV architecture allowing for exciting new vehicle design

      I can see a whole slew of reasons why EVs will very quickly become mainstream.
      There are plenty of real world disadvantages too though Why not discuss it all and determine the net balance?

      Even in your list many of the advantages are conditional or questionable... who exactly is #1 an advantage for, besides manufacturers and shareholders? #5 only counts if you have a place at home to charge. Forget an urban area like NYC- someone in a small low rise apartment complex will have problems charging their EV at home. And someone with a longer commute will need a fa$ter charger. And the skateboard design actually works against #7- look at the iD.3 vs the Golf; if anything the average car is going to get uglier or more crossoverish with the mandatory raised floors.

    18. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      08-09-2019 03:54 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Is anyone saying EVs aren't coming at all? All I read and hear is that EVs are coming, once they fix a few significant areas, namely A) MUCH more charger infrastructure, and B) the range vs. hours to charge ratio. I think most people either need more range (say, 500 miles that doesn't become 300 in cold weather) or they need a recharge to take more like 15 minutes than 60.

      I don't think any of these are insurmountable, but we aren't there yet.
      For the most part electric cars don't need any of those things. You charge at home (assuming that's possible for a given individual) and leave home with a full charge every day. No infrastructure, no stopping anywhere for "fuel" and no long range needed. Once people really understand that and the price comes down there's no reason that electrics won't hit that proverbial 'tipping point'.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
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      08-09-2019 03:58 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      I don't know what this means? Who cares? Plenty of people like antiquated stuff (as you note, you're among those people). If being considered antiquated is the only issue at stake for you, there's so much more to the EV story. Some objectively good and some of it not fully baked yet.
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Is that why we need to move to BEVs? So strangers don't think we're "antiquated"?
      Look at most of the cars out there now. They aren't enthusiast vehicles, they're daily drivers. Now look how most people would see a 20+ year old Pontiac Grand Am beater. That's how they're going to seem to most folks.

      Personally I don't give a damn what anyone thinks, but I'm not the "keeping up with the Joneses" type. At all. Why do you think I'm still driving the Fit? Because it still works fine. I may or may not be one of those people driving a gasser in 20 years (but most likely not for my daily).
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
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    20. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      08-09-2019 04:20 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      For the most part electric cars don't need any of those things.
      If they want to sell, they do! And if the idea is that EV/BEVs are the future (as in, no more ICE), they do! Relegating BEV in particular to merely commuter status is fine for the here and now, but that's not what we're talking about. The fact is, 90% of people will want an experience that mirrors their experience with ICE. If people have to adapt to a new way, it's going to take MANY years for the switch to BEV to occur---unless gov't action intervenes.

      If the question is about the barriers to widespread adoption and you're dismissing many of the key barriers, then you're talking about something different than the rest of us are.

      Here's the reality of life in an ICE world. In 98% of geographic locations in the US, we just get in the car and go. We don't worry about how temperature will degrade range. We don't don't worry about whether we plugged in overnight to get a full charge. We don't worry about if, as life typically has it, our plans change in an instant. With, ICE, we get in the car and see that our spouse left us on "E", maybe curse a little, and spend an extra 10 mins going to and getting gas. And for those of us who live in a city (which is more and more of us, right?) there's currently no stress about worry about where/how to charge our car. So the purchase price of a BEV is really just one problem.

      I really like the idea of having an EV of some sort as a commuter/beater as you state, but there's no indication that the transaction price of the cars is coming down to reasonable---commuter car levels. There's still a fair amount of work I'd have to do to my own house to get it in a position for fast charging as well. I'd still have to consider where I'm going on a given weekend. Right now, I'm looking at houses and spending a fair amount of time in a car---driving off the beaten path. I'd need to have an ICE car for these instances. But that's not how things are being envisioned. If you expect me to give up ICE (putting aside all the cool stuff I've grown to love about the experience with these), there better be a way for me to use the next iteration of EV technology just like I use it now. If I was like more people who have kids and two vehicles, I'm not sure I'd want one of the cars to be a BEV at the current time.

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      08-09-2019 04:26 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      Look at most of the cars out there now. They aren't enthusiast vehicles, they're daily drivers. Now look how most people would see a 20+ year old Pontiac Grand Am beater. That's how they're going to seem to most folks.

      Personally I don't give a damn what anyone thinks, but I'm not the "keeping up with the Joneses" type. At all. Why do you think I'm still driving the Fit? Because it still works fine. I may or may not be one of those people driving a gasser in 20 years (but most likely not for my daily).
      So the point is...we like what we like, right? TFL likes to provide examples of how the likes of Warren Buffet drives some crappy American car or some such monstrosity---I see this being the same. And your timeline is WAY off unless gov't/technology hurdles are overcome. We might be at 50% of sales being BEV in 20 yrs, but most cars won't be and there will still be THOUSANDS of ICE cars on the road. Maybe 50, 60, 70 yrs your point will be true. But you know what, by that time, I'm not really going to care. I'll be dead or really old at that point and I'll just be happy that (hopefully) new tech will allow me to be independent without having to operative a motor vehicle on my own.

      On a strictly personal note, I hope my aging parallels advances in EVs of all sorts. And when my faculties/skills aren't great any longer, I can just transition to a Jetson-mobile. That would be awesome---what a life!

    22. 08-09-2019 04:27 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      Sounds like TurboMinivan doesn't drive much
      In my first two months of Leaf ownership, I put exactly 1499.9 miles on it. This is why I pulled that '750 miles/month' figure out of thin air.
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      08-09-2019 04:30 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      For the most part electric cars don't need any of those things. You charge at home (assuming that's possible for a given individual) and leave home with a full charge every day. No infrastructure, no stopping anywhere for "fuel" and no long range needed. Once people really understand that and the price comes down there's no reason that electrics won't hit that proverbial 'tipping point'.
      So no one is going to take a road trip anymore? No one expects to travel more than 100 miles from their home (200 mile range, there and back)? Come on man, really?
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    24. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      08-09-2019 04:31 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      Look at most of the cars out there now. They aren't enthusiast vehicles, they're daily drivers. Now look how most people would see a 20+ year old Pontiac Grand Am beater. That's how they're going to seem to most folks.

      Personally I don't give a damn what anyone thinks, but I'm not the "keeping up with the Joneses" type. At all. Why do you think I'm still driving the Fit? Because it still works fine. I may or may not be one of those people driving a gasser in 20 years (but most likely not for my daily).
      Bad example, we look down on those because white trash drove it new and they drive it now.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    25. 08-09-2019 05:03 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      I know that development is happening in parallel. Thing is, even though that is a superior tech in that space, there aren't mandates demanding that everyone disconnect from the grid to get a battery bank + solar farm + wind turbines. The tech has got where it is through subsidies and help, but not forcing people to buy in at gun point.

      Not sure what relevance big oil has here... even now it's still the most viable fuel for transportation, and has been for the last 90 years. 20, 30, 50 years ago an electric vehicle was just not feasible.

      Look, I am not saying we shouldn't pursue EVs at all. I am just confused with the contradictions coming from its most aggressive proponents. EVs are getting more affordable, yet we need to increase subsidies to accelerate adoption. EV conversion is inevitable, but we need to legislate mandates banning sales of non EVs in the future. Etc. This blatant cognitive dissonance undermines the credibility of EV proponents. They need to approach things in a more logical way.
      looking at solar this year,,,,, it is a 15 to 20 year payback... just in time for the solar panels to start declining. I am 65 so the payback is not interesting for even more reasons. Your solar sales people must be different from our solar sales people. And the power companies can change the buy back policies anytime so those systems can actually be a loss as some states have already changed.. And then you buy batteries on top and replace them as well. Then a hail storm or lightning hit??? Guess some folks can live in a cave and eat bugs, but I'm just not there. I will go out with a/c running full bore as long as I can afford it. Most folks will buy the car they can afford and meets their lifestyle, so the greenies, commies, left, right, up, down, pink, yellow, red, blue..... be damned.

      Good news is... the end of the world will be postponed due to the lack of combustible fuel.

    26. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      08-09-2019 05:27 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      If they want to sell, they do!...
      No, they'll sell when they're on the same pricing plane as a gas car. People will begin to be more objective. They'll begin to think "Why would I pay to fuel my car every week when I can drive this electric car for 1/5 as much running costs, charge at home and have fewer repairs? Sure, it may take longer than 20 years, but not too much. The bigger problem is charging infrastructure in cities. Once the demand is there then parking garages will offer charging, as will apartment buildings.

      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      So the point is...we like what we like, right? TFL likes to provide examples of how the likes of Warren Buffet drives some crappy American car or some such monstrosity---I see this being the same. And your timeline is WAY off unless gov't/technology hurdles are overcome. We might be at 50% of sales being BEV in 20 yrs, but most cars won't be and there will still be THOUSANDS of ICE cars on the road. Maybe 50, 60, 70 yrs your point will be true. But you know what, by that time, I'm not really going to care. I'll be dead or really old at that point and I'll just be happy that (hopefully) new tech will allow me to be independent without having to operative a motor vehicle on my own.

      On a strictly personal note, I hope my aging parallels advances in EVs of all sorts. And when my faculties/skills aren't great any longer, I can just transition to a Jetson-mobile. That would be awesome---what a life!
      If memory serves Buffet was supposedly driving an old Camry.

      The only real hurdles to overcome are manufacturing capacity and cost of batteries. That's it. Once that's down to the point of making the car as cheap as a gas car then the adoption rate of electric cars will soar.


      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      So no one is going to take a road trip anymore? No one expects to travel more than 100 miles from their home (200 mile range, there and back)? Come on man, really?
      Of course they will. They aren't going to work for 100% of the people, but when they cost the same as a gasser and the gasser needs more $ to keep it going (because it has MUCH higher running costs) then suddenly people are going to stop and think, which they're not really doing yet because they aren't taking them seriously/they're looked at as expensive playthings. When it hits them in the pocketbook they will.

      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Bad example, we look down on those because white trash drove it new and they drive it now.
      White trash don't drive new cars. I remember when the fwd Grand Am came out. No, it wasn't a Porsche by any stretch, but it didn't yet have the stigma that you (rightfully, for the most part) give it.
      Last edited by Air and water do mix; 08-09-2019 at 05:30 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

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