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    Thread: Let the manual transmission die

    1. Member KevinC's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 10:11 PM #26
      • Let the manual transmission die



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    3. 08-12-2019 11:12 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      Do not try to claim the manufacturers are forcing the death of the manual transmission in the US. It is the average consumer buying new in large numbers and enthusiasts who only buy used vehicles that are leading manufacturers to drop manuals in the US.
      I most certainly will claim that. In the US for decades now even if a model was available with a choice of a manual, you could rarely find one on the lot. Of course most consumers don't want to wait months to get a ordered model so they "settle" for what the manufactures put on the lots. Conspiracy? maybe since the profit margin is higher on a car with the automatic option most often. Greeeeed.

    4. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 11:16 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by AC1DD View Post
      I most certainly will claim that. In the US for decades now even if a model was available with a choice of a manual, you could rarely find one on the lot. Of course most consumers don't want to wait months to get a ordered model so they "settle" for what the manufactures put on the lots. Conspiracy? maybe since the profit margin is higher on a car with the automatic option most often. Greeeeed.
      It is purely a case of put up or shut up.
      If people are unwilling to order the vehicle they want and only settle for the instant gratification provided from whatever is on the lot then it is their fault manufacturers offer fewer and fewer options with a manual transmission.
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Pedantry: winning arguments through exasperation since 1651. An Old World Tradition!
      "Now i am become death the destroyer of worlds."-bhagavad gita
      “Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.” -T.S. Eliot

    5. 08-12-2019 11:20 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      It is purely a case of put up or shut up.
      If people are unwilling to order the vehicle they want and only settle for the instant gratification provided from whatever is on the lot then it is their fault manufacturers offer fewer and fewer options with a manual transmission.
      So you admit that what I stated is true? You literally cannot find and haven't been able to find manual equipped cars on most any lot you visit during the past couple of decades or more. Why? Because the manufacturer won't make them available. The reason is that they want to force every customer to pay more and suffer the wrath of greedy profit margin mongers in the US car industry.

      I'm not talking about having a dozens of them, but having NONE or just perhaps ONE available on the lot.

    6. 08-12-2019 11:28 PM #30
      I think manuals will probably stay in pocket rocket cars ala civic si/type r but probably dead in sports cars and above especially with the c8 making the move

    7. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 11:29 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by AC1DD View Post
      So you admit that what I stated is true? You literally cannot find and haven't been able to find manual equipped cars on most any lot you visit during the past couple of decades or more. Why? Because the manufacturer won't make them available. The reason is that they want to force every customer to pay more and suffer the wrath of greedy profit margin mongers in the US car industry.

      I'm not talking about having a dozens of them, but having NONE or just perhaps ONE available on the lot.
      No.
      Manufacturers make them available.
      Car dealers choose not to stock them.
      That is the difference...
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Pedantry: winning arguments through exasperation since 1651. An Old World Tradition!
      "Now i am become death the destroyer of worlds."-bhagavad gita
      “Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.” -T.S. Eliot

    8. You can't look at my avatar for just a second, can you? Just Another Sweater's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 11:47 PM #32
      Another stupid thread by this guy.

    9. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 11:53 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      No.
      Manufacturers make them available.
      Car dealers choose not to stock them.
      That is the difference...
      I used to order all of the cars in my inventory. Can confirm.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    10. You can't look at my avatar for just a second, can you? Just Another Sweater's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 11:58 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      I used to order all of the cars in my inventory. Can confirm.
      Dealers stock what most customers buy.

      If I am not a sheep then I can always order what I want. Or go elsewhere.

    11. 08-13-2019 12:30 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Just Another Sweater View Post
      Dealers stock what most customers buy.

      If I am not a sheep then I can always order what I want. Or go elsewhere.

      Thing is that even a half way savvy store will stock a few manuals, but even looking for Civic manuals is a daunting task unless you are on the coasts, to not stock at least a couple of manuals seems to be stupid and shortsighted, worst thing if you don't see it you can probably do a dealer trade to one that has a customer for it.

    12. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 12:35 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by AC1DD View Post
      Thing is that even a half way savvy store will stock a few manuals, but even looking for Civic manuals is a daunting task unless you are on the coasts, to not stock at least a couple of manuals seems to be stupid and shortsighted, worst thing if you don't see it you can probably do a dealer trade to one that has a customer for it.
      You just do not understand the industry and business.
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Pedantry: winning arguments through exasperation since 1651. An Old World Tradition!
      "Now i am become death the destroyer of worlds."-bhagavad gita
      “Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.” -T.S. Eliot

    13. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 12:51 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by AC1DD View Post
      Thing is that even a half way savvy store will stock a few manuals, but even looking for Civic manuals is a daunting task unless you are on the coasts, to not stock at least a couple of manuals seems to be stupid and shortsighted, worst thing if you don't see it you can probably do a dealer trade to one that has a customer for it.
      Assuming that I wasn’t half way savvy, short sighted or stupid is chuckle worthy. I turned my new car inventory every 45 days. Manuals cost me money to carry on the lot as they sat forever and I had to pay flooring on them. My automatics turned fast and made me additional net profit because my flooring credits exceeded my flooring debits.

      So again, if people actually purchased manuals in any kind of meaningful numbers we’d stock them. It’s in fact that simple.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    14. You can't look at my avatar for just a second, can you? Just Another Sweater's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 01:11 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Assuming that I wasn’t half way savvy, short sighted or stupid is chuckle worthy. I turned my new car inventory every 45 days. Manuals cost me money to carry on the lot as they sat forever and I had to pay flooring on them. My automatics turned fast and made me additional net profit because my flooring credits exceeded my flooring debits.

      So again, if people actually purchased manuals in any kind of meaningful numbers we’d stock them. It’s in fact that simple.
      Make it, sell it, make more to satisfy demand. Holding time cost money.

      Maybe AC1DD needs to take a cost accounting class.

      It's all about opportunity cost.

    15. Member Galrot's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 03:39 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by AC1DD View Post
      Not to mention that the ONLY place the manual transmission is being "forced" to die (hint hint) is in the North American market
      The manual will be around for many more decades to come in the rest of the world.
      The popularity of manual transmission is going down the drain in some European markets too. For example automatic transmission currently have a market share of 91% here in Norway.

    16. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 06:20 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by Galrot View Post
      For example automatic transmission currently have a market share of 91% here in Norway.
      Does that include all the electric vehicles you're enjoying because you're sucking the earth dry of fossil fuels?
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
      2002 Golf Wagon TDI, 200k - 2007 Fuji Heavy Industries WRB WRX Wagon, 115k
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    17. Member Karl_1340's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 07:20 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by AC1DD View Post
      So you admit that what I stated is true? You literally cannot find and haven't been able to find manual equipped cars on most any lot you visit during the past couple of decades or more. Why? Because the manufacturer won't make them available. The reason is that they want to force every customer to pay more and suffer the wrath of greedy profit margin mongers in the US car industry.

      I'm not talking about having a dozens of them, but having NONE or just perhaps ONE available on the lot.
      The Challenger manual is a $1000 option in Canada, and it was the same for the T-56 in the fourth gen F-bodies($1500 option back then).


      The main reason I bought my car, was that it was on the lot and a manual. The dealer had an ATS sedan and coupe in manual. They were the only two manual ATSs on dealer lots at the time in all of Ontario.

    18. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 07:51 AM #42
      I remain adamant that Detroit killed the manual transmission for one simple reason: keeping the 3 speeds around long after they should have adapted to modern 4 and 5 speed transmissions. Threes had horrendous gear spacing and the powerband's of 60s engines wasn't nearly as wide and generous as modern engines. This wasn't a problem with a large V8, but it was in a large car/truck with a 6 or a small 8. Keep in mind that 3 speeds had been in use since the 1920s!, albeit without any syncromesh.

      Why does this matter? Because although some cars ad optional 4 speeds, they were nearly as much money as the optional autos, which were especially desirable as A: it was new, exiting technology and B: power steering wasn't commonly equipped until the mid-60s. Thus only hardcore enthusiasts paid extra for optional 4 speeds, rather than simply offering the good transmission standard.

      Even into the 70ies some cars simply didn't have a 4 speed standard, or at all. (Maverick, Vega, Gremlin/Pacer/Hornet). Guess that's your punishment for buying a small car. Of course Detroit adapted modern 5 speeds by the 80s but by that time gas was cheap again and manuals were associated with cheap, low end cars which many Boomers still believe to this day.





      Oh, and to all of you people saying "put up or shut up brah", some of us are young. I can afford a new car (a decent car, not something ridiculous like a Versa or Mirage) but that has only been the case recently. People here like to say were living in a "golden age" of enthusiast cars, but IMO that's only true if you can afford a 55K car. I can't, and 90% of people under 30 can't-why do you think I buy used? In 1985-1995, you had scores and dozens of enthusiast cars that were affordable: Fox Mustang GT, Mazda MX-3 and MX-6, Prelude, S12 200SX, FB RX7, S13 240SX, the infamous Diamond Star coupes, AE86, Corolla GTS, I could go on... Just watch Motorweek retro reviews! There are a handful of affordable enthusiast cars sub 30K today, and they're mostly excellent cars, but our choices get more and more diminished every year all across the price spectrum.
      Last edited by 88c900t; 08-13-2019 at 08:09 AM.
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      08-13-2019 08:19 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by C7WRXSTR765 View Post
      We all know manual transmission WILL DIE with ICE engine.
      Ugh this **** is inescapable. No the ICE engine won't die. But the manual transmission probably will.

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      08-13-2019 08:40 AM #44
      Regarding buying what's on the lot vs ordering, I've bought 4 new manual equipped cars (1 Mazda, 3 VW) and not a single one of them was on the lot. I'm more than fine with waiting to get exactly what I want. A car is something one should have for a while, thus I don't understand peoples aversion to ordering something and having it come a few months later. If I wrote off my car and the dealer had no manuals I'd buy a beater to drive while I waited.

    21. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 08:42 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Ugh this **** is inescapable. No the ICE engine won't die. But the manual transmission probably will.
      How very short sighted of you.
      You really think in a few hundred years people will still be using ICE?
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Pedantry: winning arguments through exasperation since 1651. An Old World Tradition!
      "Now i am become death the destroyer of worlds."-bhagavad gita
      “Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.” -T.S. Eliot

    22. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 08:45 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by KrisA View Post
      Regarding buying what's on the lot vs ordering, I've bought 4 new manual equipped cars (1 Mazda, 3 VW) and not a single one of them was on the lot. I'm more than fine with waiting to get exactly what I want. A car is something one should have for a while, thus I don't understand peoples aversion to ordering something and having it come a few months later.
      Yep. Shortly after VW announced the TDI in the Jetta Wagon in early 2002, I went to the dealership and ordered a Manuel. Waited 4 months for it to come in. 17 years later, that wait doesn't seem like much.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
      2002 Golf Wagon TDI, 200k - 2007 Fuji Heavy Industries WRB WRX Wagon, 115k
      Past: 1996 Surf Green GTI VR6 - 1985 Golf 1.8L - No Trim Level Edition

      Grammatical and spelling errors may be intentional

    23. 08-13-2019 09:54 AM #47
      Both my STI and Si are manual (and only available that way too).

      I would trade my daily Civic Si for an electric car.
      But my STI? Never giving that away, over my dead body.

    24. Senior Member Lwize's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 10:12 AM #48
      Good news.

      Nissan Versa sedans with manuel are plentiful.

      Remember, Nissan also makes the GT-R, so the Versa must be similar.

      I reject geometry.

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      08-13-2019 10:19 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      This. Also, ban OP and Hawc.
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      08-13-2019 10:20 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by AC1DD View Post
      Thing is that even a half way savvy store will stock a few manuals, but even looking for Civic manuals is a daunting task unless you are on the coasts, to not stock at least a couple of manuals seems to be stupid and shortsighted, worst thing if you don't see it you can probably do a dealer trade to one that has a customer for it.



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