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    Thread: Anybody else dislike the DSG?

    1. Junior Member
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      08-19-2019 06:00 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by bebopdeluxe View Post
      So much this.

      I understand that forums like this can have purists with a REALLY high bar when it comes to things like this. When I downshift from 6th to 4th on the highway, the shifts - and resulting engine responsiveness - happens LIKE THAT with the DSG.

      Am I missing something here?

      If you want faster response, and you want to plow $2,000-3,000 into a bunch of aftermarket addons to a manual gearbox to get “faster” downshift response than the DSG provides, then go for it.
      Dunno which poster you guys are referring to specifically but as said in the posts above, another big complaint is the stock shift points in D or S. D is always rushing to 6th, which I guess is fine for fuel economy, but S holds gears for way too long.

      Personally I have no complaints about the DSG itself and it's upshifting or downshifting speed, it's incredibly fast, but I've driven torque converters that had better factory shift points than this. As many have also said, this is easily fixable with a DSG tune. I find myself just adjusting my throttle input to better play with the D shift logic or using the paddles or manual mode if needed. But anyway.

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      08-19-2019 07:22 PM #27
      Being a manual driver for 30 years, if it doesn’t have 3 pedals on the floor, I don’t like it.

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      08-19-2019 08:14 PM #28
      First DSG was my 2006 Jetta 2.0T.. That transmission seems to read my mind, and the 2.0T is very responsive. Go forward 11 years, and the DSG in my Alltrack is completely different. I’m sure it’s tuned that way for mpg, but it’s no fun. Using OBDEleven to fix the throttle response, and disabling the “Starting vibration reduction”, made a world of difference. I still have to flick the left paddle every so often when I know I’m going to need a little more power. Overall, I love the DSG, in either car. I wouldn’t go back to a manual. To each their own.


      Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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      08-19-2019 09:27 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Derussi View Post
      Dunno which poster you guys are referring to specifically but as said in the posts above, another big complaint is the stock shift points in D or S. D is always rushing to 6th, which I guess is fine for fuel economy, but S holds gears for way too long.

      Personally I have no complaints about the DSG itself and it's upshifting or downshifting speed, it's incredibly fast, but I've driven torque converters that had better factory shift points than this. As many have also said, this is easily fixable with a DSG tune. I find myself just adjusting my throttle input to better play with the D shift logic or using the paddles or manual mode if needed. But anyway.
      I probably overreacted in my post. Apologies to the board about the "$2,000-3,000" comment.

      Other than the way that the DSG hustles you up in D or E mode, I really don't have any complaints with the shift points. They are there to maximize fuel efficiency (I guess), and if I want to hold the upshifts longer I can either hit the accelerator pedal harder or use the paddles. I just don't see it as much as a big deal as others on the board seem to think it is. To each their own.

    6. Member
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      08-20-2019 07:35 AM #30
      I'm also not a huge fan of the DSG, less due to it's performance and more due to the small but obnoxious idiosyncrasies.

      I don't think anyone here disagrees that the DSG shifts ridiculously fast, it definitely does and that part is fantastic. It's more the fact that when you have a transmission that is known and specifically designed to shift lightning quick, you should also have a reasonable expectation that it can and will move you off the line with immediacy...which is exactly the opposite of what the DSG does. I can't overstate just how annoying it is that when you need the car the move from a standstill, the fact that it sits there for what seems like an eternity before finally getting off it's ass and moving, is EXTREMELY annoying and potentially dangerous.

      I cross a 55mph highway with very a very short window of visibility in either direction everyday when leaving from work, and the fact that when I have a clear window to get across and step on it and the car just sits there trying to figure out what to do is infuriating and also dangerous. I've tried manual mode, and it works better most of the time, but given I will put it back in Drive for the rest of my commute, frankly it's annoying I have to use manual mode specifically for that purpose when every other automatic on the planet can and will do this by design. Furthermore, VW should allow you to downshift into first in Drive mode using the paddles, why they don't allow you to do that is completely nonsensical. And I'm not about to use launch control every time I want to get across a highway to get home.

      If VW would get the DSG to work as it should from a stop in Drive mode, I would be 1000x happier with this transmission. My few other complaints about the DSG are really minor compared to that one.

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      08-20-2019 11:33 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by FLHJR View Post
      I bought an Alltrack instead of a Passat specifically because of the DSG; the first and only automatic that I actually like.

      The people complaining about shift points do have a case, but that's a function of draconian CAFE rules forcing auto manufacturers to scrape every little drop of mileage they can to comply and not directly related to the transmission technology itself.
      Should have scored a TDI Passat then you'll have the best of both worlds!!!

      2,000 rpms at 75 mph is pure bliss on the highway, even if 1st and 2nd are a bit tall in city traffic but you get used to it.

      That said IMO the added torque and torque curve of the TDI is way better pairing than with the TSI and the added load of the haldex system, thus making the DSG more slugish. Two or three down shifts of the TSI is needed to climb hill where the tdi will lope along hardly above idle.
      Last edited by Dieseldog12; 08-20-2019 at 11:45 AM.
      '15 Passat SEL (NOS bought April '17 w/ 60 miles on the clock)
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      Bought back: '10 Jetta TDI sedan manual, '12 Passat SE (roof and Nav)

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      08-20-2019 11:40 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by jodokall View Post
      I'm also not a huge fan of the DSG, less due to it's performance and more due to the small but obnoxious idiosyncrasies.

      I don't think anyone here disagrees that the DSG shifts ridiculously fast, it definitely does and that part is fantastic. It's more the fact that when you have a transmission that is known and specifically designed to shift lightning quick, you should also have a reasonable expectation that it can and will move you off the line with immediacy...which is exactly the opposite of what the DSG does. I can't overstate just how annoying it is that when you need the car the move from a standstill, the fact that it sits there for what seems like an eternity before finally getting off it's ass and moving, is EXTREMELY annoying and potentially dangerous.

      I cross a 55mph highway with very a very short window of visibility in either direction everyday when leaving from work, and the fact that when I have a clear window to get across and step on it and the car just sits there trying to figure out what to do is infuriating and also dangerous. I've tried manual mode, and it works better most of the time, but given I will put it back in Drive for the rest of my commute, frankly it's annoying I have to use manual mode specifically for that purpose when every other automatic on the planet can and will do this by design. Furthermore, VW should allow you to downshift into first in Drive mode using the paddles, why they don't allow you to do that is completely nonsensical. And I'm not about to use launch control every time I want to get across a highway to get home.

      If VW would get the DSG to work as it should from a stop in Drive mode, I would be 1000x happier with this transmission. My few other complaints about the DSG are really minor compared to that one.
      Throttle response to direct, can't state it enough. Just make sure you're at a full stop thus in 1st before punching it, and sort of rolling launch will be in 2nd and have tons of slippage of the DSG.

      yeah it stinks you gotta tinker with some setting but it does change behavior for the better.
      '15 Passat SEL (NOS bought April '17 w/ 60 miles on the clock)
      '17 Alltrack SE

      Bought back: '10 Jetta TDI sedan manual, '12 Passat SE (roof and Nav)

    9. 08-20-2019 11:57 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by jjvincent View Post
      The DSG is not the problem, it's that car enthusiasts hate innovation and technology. ..
      Right, it's not that the shift points are poorly coded - it's that car enthusiasts simply HATE innovation! But I'm confused - why didn't you purchase the newer and more innovative body-style of the popular CUV? It is newer, therefore better. And you could have gotten a highly innovative transmission, that does away with clutches and cogs and gives you infinite gear ratios. You must hate innovation. Me personally, I get irritated when vinyl has MORE DYNAMIC RANGE than some CDs. Or when phones can do pretty much everything imaginable, except the call quality has not improved. Or you move to cable TV, so you have no commercials and can see tits and swearing... but after a few years you are just paying for regular TV and a third of the channels are Telemundo. As someone else stated, when everything we hear is "the DSG can shift faster than a human" I have certain expectations that will be true. I had no idea they meant a human who was fiddling with her purse at the stop light.

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      08-20-2019 12:44 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Dieseldog12 View Post
      Throttle response to direct, can't state it enough. Just make sure you're at a full stop thus in 1st before punching it, and sort of rolling launch will be in 2nd and have tons of slippage of the DSG.

      yeah it stinks you gotta tinker with some setting but it does change behavior for the better.
      One of these days I'll buy VCDS, and I'll have to try it. The fact that I have to pay for an aftermarket tool to fix what should be standard is annoying, though.

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      08-20-2019 01:11 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by jodokall View Post
      One of these days I'll buy VCDS, and I'll have to try it. The fact that I have to pay for an aftermarket tool to fix what should be standard is annoying, though.
      Get an OBDEleven Pro if you have an Android device.

      There's a new version that will support iOS soon but it's more expensive and people who pre-ordered still haven't gotten theirs...

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      08-20-2019 02:15 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Dieseldog12 View Post
      Should have scored a TDI Passat then you'll have the best of both worlds!!!

      2,000 rpms at 75 mph is pure bliss on the highway, even if 1st and 2nd are a bit tall in city traffic but you get used to it.

      That said IMO the added torque and torque curve of the TDI is way better pairing than with the TSI and the added load of the haldex system, thus making the DSG more slugish. Two or three down shifts of the TSI is needed to climb hill where the tdi will lope along hardly above idle.
      Oh, yes. That's what I had and loved it. After the buy back I was going to get a Passat TSI, but I just didn't like the 1.8T and slushbox combo. The Alltrack isn't the TDI, but it's pretty dang good.
      2013 Passat TDI SE
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    13. 08-22-2019 07:35 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C. View Post
      I have the same complaints about the DSG, similar purchase reasoning, and I didn’t notice the thing I currently dislike about it during my test drive. Pretty frustrating. Constantly wishing I bought the 6MT.

      I really want to get the tune but also not completely sure which to go with.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Well ... gotta say that my 2009 GTi with DSG took on a WHOLE new life when I had the APR tune installed. I can get "scratch" in the 2nd gear shift with S4 tires ... so it's NOT because of lack of traction. I absolutely LOVED the update/change to how it acts/reacts. I also added a CAI by Carbonio which helps in the breathing. Sawed off a few BMW 1's and 3's ... much to their surprise ... but I'd NOT go back to a 6 speed (grew up with 4, 5 & 6 speeds) as you'd never be able to match the snap shifts. Yeah ... cost me almost $1k for the upgrades but WELL worth it!

    14. 08-22-2019 07:51 PM #38
      I have the Unitronic Stage 1+ and DSG tune on my GTI. Shifts to gears 2, 3 and 4 happen fairly early, but shifts to 5th and 6th are about 5mph higher than stock.
      RPM's never go below 1500 or so which eliminates most, if not all, of the lag. And all of the lugging at 1000-1200 RPM is gone. Very happy with this setup.
      Car is much more driveable, and I like that each gear is displayed. Also noted that the 3rd gear hangup in sport mode is now gone - shifts are smoother.

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      08-22-2019 07:54 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by jjvincent View Post
      The DSG is not the problem, it's that car enthusiasts hate innovation and technology. Let me give you a few examples:

      1. Leaded gas - With this you had cushioning of the valve seats and that high octane, thus cars made massive amounts of power. Show me an engine that can make 300hp with unleaded gas. I bet you can't.
      2. Fuel injection robs hp. That's right, side draft Webers will make massive hp. Show me a 1600cc motor that can make 150hp. I bet you can't.
      3. ABS systems - As we all know, we can brake better than a computer. So take away the ABS and I'm more connected to the car
      4. Use the argument of point #3 and apply it to TC, EDL and Stability Control.
      5. Hydraulic Power steering - Don't need it because it makes me feel that I'm disconnected to the car as compared to manual steering.
      6. Electric Power Steering - Don't need it because it makes me feel that I'm disconnected to the car as compared to hydraulic power steering.
      7. Distributor and points ignition - I don't need a computer controlling my car. I can tune it to the best performance by myself and a timing light.
      8. Turbo chargers just wear out motors in record time, so non turbo is the way to go because they last forever. Give me a VR6, they never break.


      So that's just a few examples where the car enthusiasts hate change and technology. They all would rather have a 1976 VW Rabbit as it's the pinnacle of the driving experience. You are connected to the road with all manual stuff and none of the fuel injection to take away the power. In this day of age, we are forced to drive these eco cruisers that make no power and have zero connection to the road. Thus this makes perfect sense why the DSG is garbage. That 1976 Rabbit will run circles around any Alltrack or GSW. There's a reason why, it's void of all tech.

      I'm not a car buff or enthusiast. So I like the threshold braking where the ABS does the work for me. I like that I can use the paddleshift (with extensions) and feel like I'm racing a Golf TCR DSG car. I can't screw up on downshifts (aka no money shifts) and my hands are always on the wheel. I also like that my car starts in -15 to 115 F weather. I like that i can have some fun because it gives me adjustments. Things like the rear diff application, throttle input, TC and steering assist. Something that I couldn't do before. I also like I can plug in a box and get 40hp without having to do anything else. Call me the car non enthusiast. I'm just like soccer mom. Plus my next VW purchase will be Electric. That shows you right there I am not the one to listen to when it comes to what the car owner needs.

      So, if the DSG is not what you like, sell it today and get a 6 speed manual. Then when the EPS is something you do not like, then better buy an older VW. Soon yo'll be to the point of the 1976 Rabbit and that will still be high tech as it has vacuum assist, disk brakes and that dreaded FWD. Don't forget radial tires. I then suggest a 1968 VW Bus. A 1967 might be better as it has a swing axle.
      Wow that was a ramble. For not being "a car buff or enthusiast" you sure are opinionated on things you claim not to know.

      The guys obviously in tune with what he likes and dislikes in an auto vrs manual... good for him.


    16. 08-22-2019 08:08 PM #40
      Should have sais that RPM's don't drop below 1500 when driving. Idle speed is same as stock.

      And by the way, gas mileage is about the same as before the tunes.

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      08-22-2019 08:17 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by jdbgsw View Post
      I have 2017 GSW S 4motion with the DSG that I have owned for two years and 37K miles and this is by far my least favorite part of the car. Regardless of regular D or Sport, this thing never seems to be able to figure out when to shift appropriately (or what I deem appropriate). The lag is my biggest complaint. For example, coming into a roundabout (which we have all over the place), slow down and then step on it, the car just sits there and doesn't move. I got a Sprint Booster which definitely helped, but it's still "dumb" for lack of a better term (and more PC that what I usually have in mind). And then there is the whole left turn issue, begging the car to go and praying I don't get t-boned in the process.

      I know I can use manual mode, but just haven't really gotten into it that much. I drove a manual WRX for over 15 years. The lack of feedback (feel, engine noise, etc) have just made it harder for me to get in sync with the paddles. I guess i would consider the VW "numb" when trying to consistently use the manual mode. Why did I get a DGS if I am used to and prefer a manual one might ask? One word: wife.

      I figured I would eventually get a stage 1 Unitronic for the ECU and probably do the DSG flash at the same time, but have read conflicting reports if the DSG flash changes some of the undesirable behavior. Car has more oomph so the lag is less noticeable? For $600, none of the companies really outline what exactly the DSG flash does to improve drivability.

      I have read quite a few threads on the DSG and how to better compliment it when driving, but wouldn't mind hearing any other feedback from other users.
      Thank you. I've tried to love it, but I don't dig the VW DSG. I have a 17 Alltrack SEL and a 17 Golf SE HB... Pretty much the same cars except the fiddling they did with the AT. I hate to say, but I prefer the slushbox in the HB most of the time. The jerkiness putting it in gear with the torque converter transmission aside... I've heard DSG cars overcome that with braking on gear select anyway... The DSG will surprise me sometimes, and I'll be like, "hell yeah".... and other times I'm like "GOOOO MF'er!!" I'm preferring the predicable slush box right now.

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      08-22-2019 08:38 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by fattonymusic View Post
      Thank you. I've tried to love it, but I don't dig the VW DSG. I have a 17 Alltrack SEL and a 17 Golf SE HB... Pretty much the same cars except the fiddling they did with the AT. I hate to say, but I prefer the slushbox in the HB most of the time. The jerkiness putting it in gear with the torque converter transmission aside... I've heard DSG cars overcome that with braking on gear select anyway... The DSG will surprise me sometimes, and I'll be like, "hell yeah".... and other times I'm like "GOOOO MF'er!!" I'm preferring the predicable slush box right now.
      PS - throttle response already coded to direct and it still sucks from a *dead* stop.

    19. Member KarstGeo's Avatar
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      08-22-2019 08:57 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by rdroubie View Post
      I have the Unitronic Stage 1+ and DSG tune on my GTI. Shifts to gears 2, 3 and 4 happen fairly early, but shifts to 5th and 6th are about 5mph higher than stock.
      RPM's never go below 1500 or so which eliminates most, if not all, of the lag. And all of the lugging at 1000-1200 RPM is gone. Very happy with this setup.
      Car is much more driveable, and I like that each gear is displayed. Also noted that the 3rd gear hangup in sport mode is now gone - shifts are smoother.
      My experience as well with the Uni DSG tune. Love it. Any other issues are handled by simply "driving" the DSG and being more engaged (like a manual!) by using the paddles. I highly recommend getting extensions which will make it even more second-nature - Leyo Sportline PDs are great.
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      08-22-2019 08:58 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by fattonymusic View Post
      PS - throttle response already coded to direct and it still sucks from a *dead* stop.
      B/c (and I know folks here will disagree with me which is ok!) it doesn't do a thing to the throttle....this was my experience too even before I tuned mine as well as on our Atlas.
      2018 Atlas SEL VR6 4Motion - K&N drop-in, deAuto interior, fog, and full tail LEDs
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      08-22-2019 09:08 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by KarstGeo View Post
      My experience as well with the Uni DSG tune. Love it. Any other issues are handled by simply "driving" the DSG and being more engaged (like a manual!) by using the paddles. I highly recommend getting extensions which will make it even more second-nature - Leyo Sportline PDs are great.
      Because of my impending Sportwagen buy back, I do have a mint set of the Leyo Sportline PDs for sale. Let me know if any of you are interested, please. I have placed an ad in the classifieds, to no avail.
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    22. 08-22-2019 11:15 PM #46
      My 2013 Jetta TDI had DSG. I loved it. But that car also had a lot more torque than a 1.8L Golf wagon. I suppose the shift ratio was way different too.

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      08-23-2019 12:10 AM #47
      I own a ‘17 GTI PP with a DSG and got my wife an ‘18 GSW 4motion DSG recently. Last 5 cars were stick, but got DSG because of wife... as many other have done as well. Upgraded to United Motorsport’s is38 and DSG tune on the GTI and the shift points changed dramatically. Before, normal used to rush to 6th as others have noted before to save gas mileage, but now it’s much more natural as to when i would typically shift. Sport still hangs on a little higher than I’d personally like, but I drive solely in manual mode because I like the engagement of shifting when i want. The clamping pressure is much better and shift speeds are much faster.

      My wife’s GSW is completely different. Initially I thought it was because I was used to driving my tuned GTI, but I “secretly” tuned her GSW with a United Motorsport ECU/TCU because i wanted to enjoy driving her car as well.... 🤣 Her DSG stock shifts incredibly different than mine. It’s “smoother”, for one, but i think it’s because the transmission is meant to be softer than the GTi or R cars. It’s also a bit more sluggish, even after the tune. My GTI shifts ridiculously fast with a solid gear change, whereas the GSW favors transitioning between gears way more smoothly. I read somewhere that the transmissions are actually different models with one being wet and the other being dry, but please don’t quote me on that.

      The gear ratios are also completely different. I’m constantly finding myself in the wrong gear in her car even though i drive both cars the same. Some of that is attributed to the fact that i can hear which gear I’m in because of my exhaust in the GtI and the GSW is silent, but in being used to my car, I know when i generally should be shifting. Looking it up, the ratios are definitely different with the GSW favoring quicker response and better gas mileage and the GTi favoring a better top end. Final drive ratio in full effect!!

      The DSG tune helped in her car quite a bit from stock. Just like my car, it’s not “perfect” in my eyes, but it doesn’t rush to 6th anymore and can generally find the right gear through a twisty back roads. I find myself utilizing auto mode in her car more vs always being in manual mode for the GTI, but I’m also always in her car with her and they 2 year old....

      Does this help answer your question? I don’t know. Was it worth the money for the TCU tune? I think so. Gas mileage remained the same and it does shift a little quicker and at better points than stock. Are the two transmissions different from each other? From my experience, 100% yes. If anyone is in the Lime Rock, CT area and want to give the two a test drive, hit me up. You’ll see exactly what i mean. Hope this all helps!

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      08-23-2019 03:19 AM #48
      I find it interesting that not one of the commentors cared a bit that the DSG gets about 3 mpg less (around 10%) than the manual transmission. My wife has a 2017 Alltrack with a 6 speed and we track every drop of gas using fuelly.com (29mpg over 50k miles). That web site lets you view the other users who have the same vehicle. It shows over many Alltracks that the DSG doesn't get as good mpg. The claims that DSGs get better mpg than manuals are just marketing hype that is clearly disproved by the numbers.

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      08-23-2019 07:32 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by KarstGeo View Post
      B/c (and I know folks here will disagree with me which is ok!) it doesn't do a thing to the throttle....this was my experience too even before I tuned mine as well as on our Atlas.
      SOOO true, coudln't agree with you more
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      08-23-2019 03:31 PM #50
      I've been driving with the VW DSG for over 6 years now, two cars (TDI) and loving it.

      As for lags from a stop you're either not anticipating which is even more of a problem if you have a manual. Key is to softy apply throttle before light changes or wish acceleration. Circle,sharp turns, or passing you of course can shift manually or auto but it's important to understand how the transmission works, there are two shafts and downshifting one gear is quicker. Seldom given the low rpm torque of the VW EA288 is more than one gear drop needed, if quickest shifts combined with best acceleration are most important drop two gears. That is where I prefer the gas engine over diesel.

      The DSG did take some adjustments for me especially in stop and go traffic to avoid jerking but I quickly learned to use manual mode in that circumstance which was still easier than the manual cars I drove for almost 30 years.

      As to mpg I think we'll all agree that the driver makes more difference, with the Alltrack DSG I've averaged 28-29 over the 2 1/2 years I've owned it which is 3-4 miles over the EPA rating. May best highway trip is over 36 mpg and highest by computer is 38-39. Personally what might be a 1 mpg advantage for the manual over DSG, the DSG is worth the versatility and quicker shifts.

      To me the only disadvantage is the more frequent necessary fluid changes which considering it's only a little more complicated than an engine oil change is no big deal.

      PS: I've driven an Audi Allroad and while it's a 7 sp there really is little difference.

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