The situation in EVs sort of reminds me of the iphone circa 2009-10. Every new manufacturer trotted out its "iphone killer", but every one was a mild or medium disappointment on at least one front. It took a few years for competitors to coalesce around android and produce phones that were truly competitive alternatives.
The Taycan does seem quite nice, and there are some important developments there (especially the 800v platform), but it appears to be far from a Tesla killer, and more of an expansion of the EV niche into a more luxurious space. It will cannibalize some P100D sales, but I think Tesla and Porsche will mostly exist independently of eachother.
On an unrelated note, it seems to me it's high time Rolls/Bently do an EV. The smooth silence of an electric motor seems tailor made for the ultralux market, and any reasonable EV range is sufficient to get your chauffeur from the pick up point to your private jet.
I only bring up efficiency though because it affects that range measure. No one is adding a 200kwh battery pack yet. So seeing that range on paper will be reflected by consumer support. EV skeptics want over 300 miles of range to feel comfortable. Imagine Tesla breaking 500 miles with the Maxwell tech? I doubt this car will do 250.
Slow Car Fast
Love the configurator is live already:
Porsche Taycan Turbo
Frozen Blue Metallic | Graphite Blue Race-Tex with 18-Way Adaptive Sport Seats
LED-Matrix Design Headlights in Glacier Blue incl. Porsche Dynamic Light System Plus
Power Folding Exterior Mirrors
Porsche Electric Sport Sound
Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB) with Calipers in Yellow
21" Mission E Design Wheels with All-Season Tires
Wheel Center Caps with Colored Porsche Crest
Fixed Panoramic Roof in Glass
Porsche InnoDrive incl. Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC)
Night Vision Assist
Steering Wheel Heating i.c.w. Race-Tex Interior
Interior Accents in Dark Silver
Interior Trim in Paldao
Rear 2+1 Seats
Advanced 4-Zone Climate Control
Power Charge Port Cover
On-Board 150 kW/400V DC Charger
Porsche Intelligent Range Manager
Mobile Charger Connect
Porsche Charging Dock for the Porsche Universal Charger (AC)
"electric" Logo on Front Doors in High Gloss Silver
Door-Sill Guards in Black Brushed Aluminum
Last edited by ice4life; 09-05-2019 at 11:57 AM.
Not to mention, you get a hell of a lot more in the way of customization, and in the way of tech. For example, there are no matrix lights, passenger display, night vision, ceramic brakes, or 4 wheel steering anywhere to be found on a Tesla. And when it comes to the interior customization, give me a break. The porsche is hands down more customizable. Particularly with the Porsche Exclusive options which are straight from the factory.
This is where/why I don't think they are competitors. The Porsche will offer a ton more customization, luxury, and options. Wait until the Model S goes to that "simple" (read "cheap") single center screen dash of the Model 3. The Tesla steering wheels look like they are from my kid's PS4. The Model S is simply not the fully realized, high quality, beautifully designed and assembled luxury supercar that the Taycan appears to be.
Tesla's bread and butter is their tech and efficiency. Porsche is going after a more luxurious performance buyer.
It is also producing on-track results like a Porsche, repeatedly, whereas the Teslas are great to show off a Ludicrous™ 0-60 once or twice before turning down the wick.
I don't mean that as a slag on the Model S, just that, TO ME, it illustrates that these really are not competitors, despite everyone trying desperately to make them so.
Do Teslas handle badly? I didn't think so from the ones I've driven. Low CG, performance tires, and AWD makes for some brutal ability in the twisties. Yes, early ones had issues with track days and Ludicrous mode can only be use a couple time before needing a recharge and serious cooling. But normal performance in a P100D is nothing to be sneezed at, either. And the Model 3Pis even better for even less money. And in te EV world, performance is more than thos numbers, too, its range and recharging network and the Model S (and 3) have more range even at similar performance levels.Someone said it earlier in the thread. Speed is not the only parameter of performance. If this thing truly out-performs the Model S, maybe there is something to it after all.
For the upcharge, you'd better.Not to mention, you get a hell of a lot more in the way of customization, and in the way of tech.
As to the last two, do you really need them? Most of the "braking" is done by the motor under regen, so even performance Teslas have not been bad for braking ability. And I'm not sold on 4 wheel steering, not even in the cars that used to have it. I actually removed the passive RWS from my RX7 as it could be unpredictable in autocross.For example, there are no matrix lights, passenger display, night vision, ceramic brakes, or 4 wheel steering anywhere to be found on a Tesla.
And when it comes to the interior customization, give me a break. The porsche is hands down more customizable. Particularly with the Porsche Exclusive options which are straight from the factory.
And again, for the upcharge, it better.
Basic bottom line: the base Taycan won't have a lot of the stuff of the Turbo or Turbo S, and thus will only be a competitor for the Model S in price, but will lose out on range and performance at that price. The Turbo and Turbo S won't compete with the Tesla any more than a McLaren 720 competes with a Cayman.
I like the Taycan (and hopefully the E-Tron GT will be as true to its concept, as well). And in some ways I like it more than the Model S. BUT lets get real. In order to have Porsche quality and Tesla performance(including range and efficiency), you have to spend a LOT of coin. Tesla is building the American Muscle of EVs. Blistering performance, decent style, and kind of cheap build quality. But it's working. And they are ahead in the EV game quit a bit and look to be staying that way. No one seems to be leap-frogging them (and I was hoping the Taycan would).
"Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"
OMG, there is a non-leather, interior option with a special name!! This is really going to trigger some TCL'ers.
Fancy words for Pleather? HOW DARE THEY!?!?!Leather Interior / Leather Seats
Race-Tex Interior (Leather-Free)
Olea Club Leather Interior
I have been anxious to see the real auto manufacturers come out with a serious Tesla competitor, and have been repeatedly let down by efficiency and performance that's behind a six year old car from Tesla.
Now Porsche comes in with tech that while way behind on efficiency is equal if not better than Tesla. Problem is it's 60% more in the versions they have revealed. I'm waiting to see the $100k version to see it's performance and range vs the top end Tesla that give 340 miles and 2.4 sec 0-60.
Love the 2 speed transmission however.
Anyways I guess we'll have to wait until the LA auto show to see the closer priced versions, or for the Audi version.
The real question is when is the $40-50k EV coming from a large scale auto manufacturer?
it's about $120,000 over my budget, so i'll add this to the "more than you can afford, pal" list. Looks cool, except for those DONK-style-white-lip wheels. I'm sure we'll see many business execs in these around DC and CA. I wood NOT keep if given one (WOOD keep manual 991).
::puts flame suit on:: Rant/
The only reason (for me personally) to purchase an EV is to be more environmentally conscience. Although the leather-free interior is a great step in the right direction, i highly doubt this vehicle and the amount of rare earth materials in it cuts down on overall "cradle to grave" carbon footprint at all. maaaaaybe it's marginally better than the business execs lumbering around in an M5/M6? It exists in an even more elevated space as the top trim Model S and X, which are all upper class people showing off their money (or tesla-stretching) and pretending to actually give a sh!t about the environment (IMO). In the same way that Al Gore told us all how we needed to compost our food scraps and toilet paper and change our lives because of global warming, when he himself had no problem jetting all around the world (while telling us not to) and heating his 10,070sqft mansion and pool (which uses 20-34 times the national average power: During all of 2016, Gore devoured 66,159 kWh of electricity just heating his pool; enough energy to power six average U.S. households for a year). I imagine most everyone who has $150k-$242k to blow on a Taycan Turbo S, also has an 8,000+sqft home and vacation home, multiple other cars with full-leather interiors, and a whole host of consumer goods and environmentally un-friendly lifestyle products. these cars make about as much sense as performance CUVs, to me. /Rant
Last edited by col.mustard; 09-05-2019 at 01:50 PM.
praise the lowered
Originally Posted by George Bluth >>
It's so obnoxious when VW Golf/Jetta owners comment
Though to be ridiculously precise, Alcantara is just another petrochemical product like "vinyl." They are both "plastic" alternatives to animal leather.
Alcantara is the brand name of a common synthetic textile material. It has a soft, suede-like microfiber pile and is noted for its durability. Alcantara is commonly seen in automotive applications, as a substitute for leather and vinyl in vehicle interior trim. It is also used in the design, fashion, consumer electronics and marine industries. ...
Alcantara is composed of about 68% polyester and 32% polyurethane, giving increased durability and stain resistance. The appearance and tactile feel of the material is similar to that of suede, and it may be identified as such.
That's $105,000 CAD. That's just for the Premium Plus, the Prestige starts at $81,800 USD. The only option I had to add with the Prestige was the cold weather package as it comes with driver assist. It came out to $84,290 USD.
Last edited by Cabin Pics; 09-05-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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Buy my E46 sport springs. H&R part # 29485 - PM for details.