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    Thread: Lexus hasn't made a profit in 2 years...

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    1. Member DrewSXR's Avatar
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      09-07-2019 05:05 PM #1
      On his Instagram account, Jonny Leiberman is claiming that Lexus hasn't made a profit in 2 years.

      I'm not really that surprised. I don't think anything they make is all that competitive except for the ES and RX line.

      But it's also hard to believe they don't make money on the RX.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Leiberman
      "Dirty secret - Lexus hasn't made a profit in about 2 years. Too many NX's being sold with cash on the hood, not nearly enough big ticket products like GS, LS, LC, and LX being bought. So yes, there will be a next-gen 2023 LX570 sold in America, just not it's Toyota sibling"

    2. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      09-07-2019 05:07 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by DrewSXR View Post
      On his Instagram account, Jonny Leiberman is claiming that Lexus hasn't made a profit in 2 years.

      I'm not really that surprised. I don't think anything they make is all that competitive except for the ES and RX line.

      But it's also hard to believe they don't make money on the RX.
      They might make money on the RX, just not enough to buoy the brand. If this is true I’m not surprised in the slightest, Lexus has faded this decade and been quite slow to respond to market changes.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

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      09-07-2019 05:11 PM #3
      I bet if they made the grills a little bigger it would help.

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      09-07-2019 05:19 PM #4
      All they need is a competitive safety/tech/infotainment package and they'd do a lot better. Their current offering doesn't stop people like my parents from shopping them, but it also doesn't get new butts in seats. They seem to have vehicles in all the right segments (although maybe a more soft-roady 3 row entry with better packaging than the GX would help), and their reputation is sterling.

      FWIW I saw a new LS the other day and it had presence. looked long and low and properly expensive. Also the LCs always catch my eye.

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      09-07-2019 05:33 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by zmt2 View Post
      All they need is a competitive safety/tech/infotainment package and they'd do a lot better. Their current offering doesn't stop people like my parents from shopping them, but it also doesn't get new butts in seats. They seem to have vehicles in all the right segments (although maybe a more soft-roady 3 row entry with better packaging than the GX would help), and their reputation is sterling.

      FWIW I saw a new LS the other day and it had presence. looked long and low and properly expensive. Also the LCs always catch my eye.
      The LC and LS are both very nice, but that's only ~10K unit a year.

      Their infotainment is enough to turn me off...

    6. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      09-07-2019 09:50 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by zmt2 View Post
      All they need is a competitive safety/tech/infotainment package and they'd do a lot better. Their current offering doesn't stop people like my parents from shopping them, but it also doesn't get new butts in seats. They seem to have vehicles in all the right segments (although maybe a more soft-roady 3 row entry with better packaging than the GX would help), and their reputation is sterling.

      FWIW I saw a new LS the other day and it had presence. looked long and low and properly expensive. Also the LCs always catch my eye.
      They have entries, but wow are they mired by late projects and aging models.

      IS- old as hell, no longer particular competitive
      RC- easy to forget its even made. Never was top of class
      ES- fresh, looks sharp, great entry
      GS- stale, probably won't even see a next generation
      LS- sharp, but not good enough to best the class. They made it more sporty which alienated many loyal fans, but didn't make it entertaining enough for S-class and 7-series crowd to defect. Why is the back seat less spacious than it should be? Why is the infotainment so dated and non-intuitive? What a miss.
      LC- as most big coupes do, the sales dropped off after the hype. I actually like these and hopefully the convertible (which I don't find attractive) gives it a bump.

      UX- too small and slow but probably makes a profit due to cheap underpinnings
      NX- volume play, competitive but still rolling out with cash on the hood
      RX- perennial favorite but competition is eating into it. Not class leading anywhere besides reliability.
      GX- not particularly competitive and very dated. The BOF differentiation is nice for those who care but they could put something that'd sell better in this slot
      LX- well. Old, clumsy, and not even that good offroad due to its overhangs (you'll bash that chin everywhere). Niche isn't good enough here. I don't have high hopes for the next generation either as its walking into an extremely competitive, crowded segment.

      They have a lot of work to do.


      Quote Originally Posted by Lwize View Post
      Meh.

      Lieberman used to work for Jalopnik - not a shining example of journalistic integrity.

      Now he works for Motor Trend - not a shining example of journalistic integrity.

      He makes a comment on Instagram - see above.

      He and Motor Trend are trash.
      Last edited by TangoRed; 09-07-2019 at 11:27 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

    7. Member Cutandthrust's Avatar
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      09-07-2019 11:02 PM #7
      How much did they spend on the LF-A, I mean I loved it, but they probably went way over budget on that project. I hate as an enthusiast, these are largely forgotten already.

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      09-08-2019 06:50 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      They have entries, but wow are they mired by late projects and aging models.
      How much does this really matter though? See my thoughts in bold:


      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      IS- old as hell, no longer particular competitive Whole segment is dying; 3/4 series sales are half off their peak and all new entrants are down... what's the point of updating
      RC- easy to forget its even made. Never was top of class What is? I think they are a nice alternative to the formulaic German entrants
      ES- fresh, looks sharp, great entry And a printing press
      GS- stale, probably won't even see a next generation Bums me out, easily my favorite Lexus, and again in a dying segment... what about it needs updating, besides the infotainment? Please don't say it needs a generic ass 3.0TT for people to void warranties with a tune on
      LS- sharp, but not good enough to best the class. They made it more sporty which alienated many loyal fans, but didn't make it entertaining enough for S-class and 7-series crowd to defect. Why is the back seat less spacious than it should be? Why is the infotainment so dated and non-intuitive? What a miss. Again, dying segment; honestly surprised they even bothered. I preferred the old one
      LC- as most big coupes do, the sales dropped off after the hype. I actually like these and hopefully the convertible (which I don't find attractive) gives it a bump. This is basically a pet project for Toyota

      UX- too small and slow but probably makes a profit due to cheap underpinnings Agreed
      NX- volume play, competitive but still rolling out with cash on the hood Tough segment. I'd like them to improve the interior and HP, but that costs money
      RX- perennial favorite but competition is eating into it. Not class leading anywhere besides reliability. Reliability matters. Aside from infotainment interface and HP, of which only the former matter to the market, what does it need? For my money the RX and Nautilus are the only entrants in the class worth considering. Everything else is expensive and unreliable or ancient by comparison.
      GX- not particularly competitive and very dated. The BOF differentiation is nice for those who care but they could put something that'd sell better in this slot Agreed
      LX- well. Old, clumsy, and not even that good offroad due to its overhangs (you'll bash that chin everywhere). Niche isn't good enough here. I don't have high hopes for the next generation either as its walking into an extremely competitive, crowded segment. Agreed

      They have a lot of work to do.




      He and Motor Trend are trash. Also agreed; he seems to shamelessly embody the "autojournos who are in the career to get free ****" image
      As for Lexus, if they are doing bad, who is doing good? The Germans don't directly put money on the hood but the majority of their cars are leases and their residuals are true moon shots. They base the lease residuals on what the cars sell for at retail (or higher!!!). Sedans are dying so there's nothing gained by being the latest and greatest in any of those segments. If I got to make the call I'd probably have killed off everything but the ES, GS and RC and just let them cover the whole span of sedans/coupes.

      As for the crossovers they are caught between a rock and a hard place. They can't (and shouldn't) charge more. But they can only do so much within a price window. There is probably room to consolidate and focus here too. Honda has shown the way with the RDX. The NX needs to be bigger and better and I think it could at least be bigger for not much more cost. Again I think the RX has pretty much hit its target, and chasing the Germans, as it has proven to be time and time again, would be a huge mistake. They are in a very nice value niche and IMO have an offering that makes a lot more sense than an X5 or GLE at 1.5X the equivalent cost. If I could have made the call on the LS, I would have scrapped it and the new platform and made a new unibody RWD/AWD flagship crossover. That's where the market is going.

      So if my count is right, consolidate down from 11 models down to 6. And just put all the $ and resources into making those great. A big change but not a lot of work. Probably less work than trying to keep 11 plates spinning.

    9. 09-07-2019 05:21 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      I bet if they made the grills a little bigger it would help.
      If only more brands would come to this realization. Grillemaxx your vehicles.

    10. 09-07-2019 05:36 PM #10
      Despite exploiting cheap labour from millions of destitute foreign workers



      Japan as a country is a corporate entity and its real owners will never let Japan make any profit.
      Dept chart.
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    11. Member spathotan's Avatar
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      09-07-2019 05:49 PM #11
      They need more overachieving husbands to buy more cars for their gold digging wives for Christmas. Maybe start charging more for the giant bow as well.

    12. 09-07-2019 05:53 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by VigorousZX View Post
      Despite exploiting cheap labour from millions of destitute foreign workers



      Japan as a country is a corporate entity and its real owners will never let Japan make any profit.
      Dept chart.
      Foreign workers in Japan are increasing because the population is aging and there aren't enough Japanese workers to fill the roles.

      As for Lexus, their product is non-existent. Yes they have offerings, but the GS for example is ancient, ignored, and its future is unclear. They are absent in niche fashion segments like the A7/CLS segment. The LS, which is the brand's pillar and flagship was left to rot for 11 years in a hyper competitive market, and the redesign abandoned some of the LS-ness. The LX and GX, which should by all accounts be super popular given the segments, are just rotting there on ancient platforms with half assed MCE after half assed MCE.

      Lexus is non-existent in the EV space, when competitors like Audi, BMW, and MB are coming out with or planning all electric models to combat Tesla, no such word from Lexus.

      Begs the question what Toyota is actually doing with all its money and time day in and day out, because it sure as hell isn't on automobile product or powertrain development.

      Granted the entire industry is pretty ****ty these days. Over regulation means all cars look the same, they have the same features and touch screens, they run on the same basic technology as their ancestors, cheap cars are just as good as expensive cars etc... It's becoming a commodity industry.
      Last edited by tejlab; 09-07-2019 at 06:07 PM.

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      09-08-2019 08:37 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by VigorousZX View Post
      Despite exploiting cheap labour from millions of destitute foreign workers



      Japan as a country is a corporate entity and its real owners will never let Japan make any profit.
      Dept chart.
      I am not a finance guy or I would be retired.

      What does that mean or imply?
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      09-07-2019 08:55 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      I bet if they made the grills a little bigger it would help.
      And double the fake exhausts.


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    15. Senior Member Lwize's Avatar
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      09-07-2019 06:25 PM #15
      Meh.

      Lieberman used to work for Jalopnik - not a shining example of journalistic integrity.

      Now he works for Motor Trend - not a shining example of journalistic integrity.

      He makes a comment on Instagram - see above.

      I reject geometry.

    16. Member 16volt's Avatar
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      09-07-2019 08:31 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by Lwize View Post
      Meh.

      Lieberman used to work for Jalopnik - not a shining example of journalistic integrity.

      Now he works for Motor Trend - not a shining example of journalistic integrity.

      He makes a comment on Instagram - see above.

      This.

      That being said - Lexus has the exact same problem Infiniti has these days. An outdated product, boring dynamics and a pseudo-premium price. I say this after thinking out loud today how much I love my 2006 Infiniti M45.

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      09-07-2019 08:43 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      I bet if they made the grills a little bigger it would help.
      Quote Originally Posted by MisterTroy View Post
      If only more brands would come to this realization. Grillemaxx your vehicles.
      Grilles that salute electric foil shavers.

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      09-07-2019 11:34 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Lwize View Post
      Meh.

      Lieberman used to work for Jalopnik - not a shining example of journalistic integrity.

      Now he works for Motor Trend - not a shining example of journalistic integrity.

      He makes a comment on Instagram - see above.

      He is also an extreme left guy. Brought up politics on a cigar forum and car discussion. Annoying.

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    19. 09-08-2019 01:12 AM #19
      Lexus should try a high end full size that is squarish like a g wagon with a sumptous interior ,it will probabaly sell

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      09-08-2019 08:30 AM #20
      Automotive press dislikes luxury cars. Many brands are stuck in the performance trap. Not a good situation for the buying public.

    21. 09-08-2019 09:34 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      Lexus should try a high end full size that is squarish like a g wagon with a sumptous interior ,it will probabaly sell
      Yeah, Toyota megacruiser.

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      09-08-2019 11:03 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      Lexus should try a high end full size that is squarish like a g wagon with a sumptous interior ,it will probabaly sell
      Maybe some kind of off roading SUV that shares a platform with a legendary offroad vehicle, well known for its reliability and high resale?

      They should definitely think about one of those.

    23. 09-08-2019 05:14 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by XiaoNio View Post
      Maybe some kind of off roading SUV that shares a platform with a legendary offroad vehicle, well known for its reliability and high resale?

      They should definitely think about one of those.
      I know what you r getting at Problem is the LX series doesnt look rugged enough for the wannabes.

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      09-09-2019 11:28 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Exactly. I think of platforms the same way. Doesn't matter how new or old the components are or where they come from, as long as they work to make something that's fun to drive.
      What's "fun to drive" doing in a Lexus thread? The point of a Lexus is to totally isolate you from the road. Their highest volume models aren't anything resembling fun to drive.
      Again, the same could be said of any volume luxury player's top selling models. What's your point? Or do you not have one?

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      09-09-2019 01:17 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Again, the same could be said of any volume luxury player's top selling models. What's your point? Or do you not have one?
      Lexus has the 2nd oldest demographic behind Caddy and the highest percentage of women buyers. Using "fun to drive" as a metric in a Lexus thread kind of pegs the irony meter. That's not the target market. It's the car for affluent 50-somethings who value reliability and ride comfort over pretty much anything else. That was my point. The Europeans have targeted the "fun to drive" segment. That's not where Lexus lives and this is a Lexus thread.

      And me? No. My car winters outdoors in Vermont. I drive an appliance that does well in winter driving where I don't need to care about road salt destroying it. If I want engaging, I ski the trees. I squander my discretionary money on things other than cars. We all make our choices.

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