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    Thread: SUV haters unite: Climate activist groups call for SUVs to be banned in Europe (and the world)...

    1. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 12:00 PM #1


      FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Climate groups, including Greenpeace and Deutsche Umwelthilfe, called on Monday for sport-utility vehicles to be banned as part of a wider campaign to curb pollution by the auto industry.

      Carmakers should stop developing large, heavy cars and vehicles with internal combustion engines, the “Exit” consortium said at a news conference on the eve of the Frankfurt auto show.

      “As long as SUVs rather than small electric vehicles dominate automotive transport, cars will remain the problem child for us climate activists,” the consortium said.

      In a debate with the lead spokeswoman from “Sand in the Gearbox” - a coalition of activists who see the automobile as an outmoded form of transport and called for a boycott of the show - Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) Chief Executive Herbert Diess said his company was primarily committed to providing individual mobility and that ultimately, consumers decide what they buy.

      Volkswagen had developed several frugal and zero-emission vehicles, including the VW Lupo, which had ultimately proven less popular that larger more spacious cars, Diess said.

      “SUVs is what the customer wants,” Diess said while underscoring Volkswagen’s commitment to building affordable electric vehicles as well.

      “Owning a car is for many people part of having a higher quality of life. We need to ensure that even middle and lower income families can afford an electric car,” Diess said.

      Regulators have in their power to incentivize buying behavior, the German executive said, rejecting a call for an outright ban of cars or certain types of vehicle.

      Switching to renewable forms of energy and cutting dependence on coal-fired power stations was another way to push climate goals, Diess added.

      The German automaker is preparing to launch a raft of hybrid and electric vehicles to try to leave behind a diesel emissions cheating scandal which has cost the company more than 30 billion euros ($33 billion) in refit costs and fines.

      Hybrid vehicles can help cut carbon dioxide pollution, carmakers say.

      “These fake arguments brought forward by the industry are exactly the reason why we are taking to the streets,” said the spokeswoman for Sand in the Gearbox, which has called for a blockade of the Frankfurt show and increased use of bicycles.


      “Volkswagen is by definition interested in selling more cars, so they are not really part of the solution,” said the spokeswoman, who declined to give her real name, but calls herself Tina Velo.

      Activists say job losses among the auto industry’s 800,000 workers in Germany could be recouped via extra investments in public transport and railways.

      Those assembly workers who were still out of a job could be retrained to work in care homes, Velo said.
      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKCN1VU1E2
      Last edited by Uber Wagon; 09-10-2019 at 12:03 PM.
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    3. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 12:02 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post
      Those assembly workers who were still out of a job could be retrained to work in care homes, Velo said.
      Hey man, I know you used to have a job you liked in heavy industry assembling cars, but we decided you need to start wiping senior citizen asses instead. Cool homie?
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    4. Member aging_fleet's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 12:24 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Hey man, I know you used to have a job you liked in heavy industry assembling cars, but we decided you need to start wiping senior citizen asses instead. Cool homie?

    5. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 12:30 PM #4


      Anyone on the extreme like that has no understanding that they a: look like a collection of idiots, b: their "solutions" are ineffective and unwanted and c: if everything is as bad as they say we're doomed anyway.

      I'm all for making things cleaner, but banning SUVs is going to solve exactly nothing except controlling industry/population that much more.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

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      09-10-2019 12:35 PM #5
      Ummm, car companies could make small electric SUVs. Then everybody's happy!!

      I also wonder how many of the protesters drove to the protest in their own gasoline-powered cars. (I admit, I'm guilty of this hypocrisy myself.)

      Tom

    7. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 12:40 PM #6
      Just think of all the resources wasted when thousands travel to one location to protest wastefulness.

    8. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 12:49 PM #7
      Just regulate corporate average fuel economy. In an age when the Mercedes A45 is considered an econo-hatchback and the GLA45 is a high performance SUV, but they are the same vehicle with different marketing and 10mm difference in ride height, it's all just nonsense. Don't they have carbon taxes in Europe? In the US we do it via CAFE which applies fleet-wide for automakers. This ensures a rising tide for all vehicles while still giving plenty of variation from small EVs to large V8 pickup trucks.

    9. Member child_in_time's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 12:53 PM #8
      Some "normal" looking cars have worse fuel economy than some SUVs...

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      09-10-2019 12:56 PM #9
      TBH, one of the reasons I got out of Wranglers, after 12 years or so of continuous Jeep/SUV ownership, was because of this.
      My job has very liberal work-from-home policies, so if the weather looks like crap (ice, snow, etc...), I just plan to work from home.
      Besides that, I was pretty honest with myself about how I actually use my vehicle, and what kind of driving/ownership experience I wanted.
      An oversized, ill-handling, cartoon character homage to a WW2 military vehicle, just did not make a lot of sense for me anymore (if it ever really did at all).
      Last winter was my first winter, in over a decade, where I didn't have a SUV, Jeep, or even AWD.
      I survived just fine, with my reasonably sized FWD hatchback. Spring, Summer, and Fall also passed without incident or hardship.

      I am NOT saying that what works for me will work for everyone, or even work for me forever, but I am glad that I made some attempt to be honest about my needs and consumption.


      Now, regarding this banning of CUVs or SUVs, I would like to know if these activists are okay with electric SUVs and trucks?
      Yes, they wont be as efficient as the ID.3, but car companies and governments will have a much easier time transitioning the public to electric vehicles, if those EVs are the general size and shape of the ICEs that they are currently buying in droves.
      I also think these activists have too much faith in the governments of mankind, especially in "democracies".
      As we have seen in the US, one party is pro-environment-ish, while the other is not.
      Environmental gains and safeguards that flourish under one administration, can be wiped away by the next.

    11. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:01 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      I also think these activists have too much faith in the governments of mankind, especially in "democracies".
      As we have seen in the US, one party is pro-environment-ish, while the other is not.
      Environmental gains and safeguards that flourish under one administration, can be wiped away by the next.
      Also, people might say they want to save the environment, but go ask France if the populace is willing to put their money where their mouth is (see yellow vest protests)
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    12. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:06 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by child_in_time View Post
      Some "normal" looking cars have worse fuel economy than some SUVs...
      I traded my 1.3 liter manual sports car for an automatic turbo V6 fullsize truck to save gas.

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      09-10-2019 01:10 PM #12
      One of the biggest travesties within the climate change debate is how polarized and partisan it has become. You'd figure trying to prevent apocalyptic doom would be in the best interests of all sides

    14. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:14 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      One of the biggest travesties within the climate change debate is how polarized and partisan it has become. You'd figure trying to prevent apocalyptic doom would be in the best interests of all sides
      The problem is, one fringe end of one side keeps yelling about an "apocalyptic doom" that is supposedly coming, but...it isn't.

      https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...since-2005.php

      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    15. Member 2 doors's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:20 PM #14
      What if I have both a compact BEV and a fullsize V8 SUV? I'm cool with them, right?

    16. Member Nealric's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:24 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      The problem is, one fringe end of one side keeps yelling about an "apocalyptic doom" that is supposedly coming, but...it isn't.

      https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...since-2005.php

      That chart doesn't show what you think it shows. But this thread is doomed

    17. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:24 PM #16
      I heard that the peaceful protest turned ugly when Polizei showed up...in this



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    18. Member Dawg Dee-Lux's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:26 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Hey man, I know you used to have a job you liked in heavy industry assembling cars, but we decided you need to start wiping senior citizen asses instead. Cool homie?
      The education system, the media and society has done a real number on these commies.

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      09-10-2019 01:29 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      That chart doesn't show what you think it shows. But this thread is doomed
      Yeah, it's not worth arguing with someone who brings up a conservative blog to prove that climate change isn't happening.

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      09-10-2019 01:29 PM #19
      "Save the planet, go vegan". That'll get em'!

      There is no single answer, and banning hawc... I mean SUV's will solve nothing.
      The past vehicles.
      93' Camaro-Sold, 87' Cabriolet-Sold, 87' Scirocco 16v-Sold, 85' Scirocco 8v-dead, 13' Jetta-dead, 87' Scirocco 16v-dead ,99' Acura TL-Sold, 80' Scirocco, DERPKOTA!, 13' WRX
      Quote Originally Posted by Seabird View Post
      Hell, you know those ancient cave paintings in France? I betcha those animals were really half the size that the hack scribbler drew.

    21. Member Dawg Dee-Lux's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:31 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      TBH, one of the reasons I got out of Wranglers, after 12 years or so of continuous Jeep/SUV ownership, was because of this.
      My job has very liberal work-from-home policies, so if the weather looks like crap (ice, snow, etc...), I just plan to work from home.
      Besides that, I was pretty honest with myself about how I actually use my vehicle, and what kind of driving/ownership experience I wanted.
      An oversized, ill-handling, cartoon character homage to a WW2 military vehicle, just did not make a lot of sense for me anymore (if it ever really did at all).
      Last winter was my first winter, in over a decade, where I didn't have a SUV, Jeep, or even AWD.
      I survived just fine, with my reasonably sized FWD hatchback. Spring, Summer, and Fall also passed without incident or hardship.

      I am NOT saying that what works for me will work for everyone, or even work for me forever, but I am glad that I made some attempt to be honest about my needs and consumption.


      Now, regarding this banning of CUVs or SUVs, I would like to know if these activists are okay with electric SUVs and trucks?
      Yes, they wont be as efficient as the ID.3, but car companies and governments will have a much easier time transitioning the public to electric vehicles, if those EVs are the general size and shape of the ICEs that they are currently buying in droves.
      I also think these activists have too much faith in the governments of mankind, especially in "democracies".
      As we have seen in the US, one party is pro-environment-ish, while the other is not.
      Environmental gains and safeguards that flourish under one administration, can be wiped away by the next.
      No, they are not ok with any cars. They want you on a bike.

      I really fear for these activist, they are going to have a very very bad day when they realize that China, and India are not prepared to do anything to reduce Co2-emissions.

      flick
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      Quote Originally Posted by thisisdog View Post
      The internet has gotten significantly better since Russians started buying video cameras.

    22. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:31 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      Yeah, it's not worth arguing with someone who brings up a conservative blog to prove that climate change isn't happening.
      That chart is from NOAA. It just happens to be on a conservative blog.

      What am I missing?
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    23. Member Harold's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:33 PM #22
      I wonder how many have more than two kids, because if they do, they are helping to overpopulate the planet.

      Wouldn't they make a greater dent by attacking supertankers, big ships and the fuel they use?

      “It has been estimated that just one of these container ships, the length of around six football pitches, can produce the same amount of pollution as 50 million cars. The emissions from 15 of these mega-ships match those from all the cars in the world. And if the shipping industry were a country, it would be ranked between Germany and Japan as the sixth-largest contributor to CO2 emissions.”

      https://medium.com/@victoria27/heres...e-b358cb034c70
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    24. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:33 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Also, people might say they want to save the environment, but go ask France if the populace is willing to put their money where their mouth is (see yellow vest protests)
      Well France still scores a ton of points as far as GHG is concerned due to their mass adoption of nuclear power and the nearly zero carbon footprint from doing so. But yeah, the fact that people risked their lives (and some died) fighting for the relative affordability of their $7/gallon gasoline is very telling that the public will only go so far.

    25. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:35 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      That chart doesn't show what you think it shows. But this thread is doomed
      Then enlighten me. What does it show?
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    26. Member Dawg Dee-Lux's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 01:36 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      Yeah, it's not worth arguing with someone who brings up a conservative blog to prove that climate change isn't happening.
      Nobody denies climate change is happening, the discussion is about if, and what part of it, is man made.

      But they can be very entertaining: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...ors-evacuated/

      Arctic tours ship MS MALMO with 16 passengers on board got stuck in ice on Sep 3 off Longyearbyen, Svalbard Archipelago, halfway between Norway and North Pole. The ship is on Arctic tour with Climate Change documentary film team, and tourists, concerned with Climate Change and melting Arctic ice. All 16 Climate Change warriors were evacuated by helicopter in challenging conditions, all are safe. 7 crew remains on board, waiting for Coast Guard ship assistance.
      The jokes write themselves.

      flick
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      Quote Originally Posted by thisisdog View Post
      The internet has gotten significantly better since Russians started buying video cameras.

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