VWVortex.com - Drone strike forces Saudis to cut production IN HALF - Pepper you Angus
Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    The Car Lounge
    Page 10 of 18 FirstFirst ... 67891011121314 ... LastLast
    Results 226 to 250 of 444

    Thread: Drone strike forces Saudis to cut production IN HALF - Pepper you Angus

    1. Junior Member
      Join Date
      Nov 12th, 2007
      Location
      Trondheim, Norway
      Posts
      86
      Vehicles
      Golf VI, 1.6 TDI
      09-20-2019 04:02 AM #226
      Quote Originally Posted by Wheelstand View Post
      heh reminds me of this . :


      I see that you get your information from a 2012 comic. Here is a 2013 infographic about life lost since 2000.


    2. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    3. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 27th, 2014
      Location
      Canada
      Posts
      1,005
      Vehicles
      2017 Golf R, 2017 Miata RF, 2017 Genesis G90
      09-20-2019 07:59 AM #227
      The open source community has had a chance to look at the imagery and there area few interesting points:

      • The drones are a design that the Houthis have never used before, suggesting it was manufactured in Iran.
      • The sound signature picked up in the Kuwaiti video suggests jet propelled engines on the drones.
      • The cruise missiles recovered were Quds-1. We have never seen Quds systems in Iran before.
      • However, the flight trajectory and other imagery suggests it was launched somewhere near the border of Iran and Iraq.


      Given all the above, it's almost certainly Iran and/or a proxy who initiated the attack. The most interesting part is that Iran used the Quds system suggesting they are developing alternative missile systems for their proxies and not displaying them to maintain deniability. The deniability part is important for both parties because it gives the US and the Saudis an out where they do not have to escalate the situation. Sentiment for the Saudis is at an all time low since 9/11 and without US support, they would get crushed in a conventional war with Iran.

      I hate to admit it, but Iran has played their hand extremely well. They've signaled to the world they can hold its energy supplies at risk, undermining one of the US' major foreign policy positions. They've also shown that they can continue to pound the Saudis from the north and south without any consequences. As vwguru has pointed out, Iran is going to be in a much stronger position to negotiate their next nuclear deal.

    4. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 13th, 2010
      Location
      Langley, whidbey island, Washington
      Posts
      1,405
      Vehicles
      1963 Volvo 1800 S, '84 jetta
      09-20-2019 08:34 AM #228
      Quote Originally Posted by loyfah View Post
      Here is a 2013 infographic about life lost since 2000.
      You act like things are just a cakewalk for the Israelis:

      This is from WP 2009 May. When you are getting a ton of incoming on a regular basis, you are going to strike back. (aside from the stated purpose of your enemy to ensure you don't exist anymore)

      Ganor said the Gaza factions could possess 15,000 to 20,000 rockets. Herzog, by contrast, said Hamas and Islamic Jihad each have about 6,000 rockets.
      Last edited by kowabonga; 09-20-2019 at 08:36 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by cartalk
      "As near as I could tell, the car was built from compressed rust."

    5. 09-20-2019 10:02 AM #229
      In the grand scheme of things, this is a bigger nothingburger than originally speculated. It only shows how desperate and crumbling the regime is due to the imposed sections. They will just continue to piss everyone off. The Iran deal was terrible at best. It only delayed what the current regime is after. No reason to give them time and money to obtain their goals, likely with a lot more capable technology. US is not going to get involved, we are going to continue to sell billions of dollars worth of military equipment to the Saudis and have them handle it.

    6. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 27th, 2014
      Location
      Canada
      Posts
      1,005
      Vehicles
      2017 Golf R, 2017 Miata RF, 2017 Genesis G90
      09-20-2019 10:14 AM #230
      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
      In the grand scheme of things, this is a bigger nothingburger than originally speculated. It only shows how desperate and crumbling the regime is due to the imposed sections. They will just continue to piss everyone off. The Iran deal was terrible at best. It only delayed what the current regime is after. No reason to give them time and money to obtain their goals, likely with a lot more capable technology. US is not going to get involved, we are going to continue to sell billions of dollars worth of military equipment to the Saudis and have them handle it.
      What? Did you miss the last five decades of world history? Iran demonstrating that they can disrupt the world's energy supplies with zero consequence is nothingburger? We have been down this road before with North Korea. We refused to engage them, attempted to coerce them into complying and we still ended up in a situation where they have the bomb, but are more belligerent than if we had frankly bribed them.

      As for the Saudis, I'm sorry, but I need a few minutes to recover from laughing my ass off. The Saudis have 127,000 active personnel with 100,000 in reserves, haven't engaged in a serious military conflict in 50+ years and lost every sortie of consequence with the Houthis. Iran has:

      -523,000 active duty
      -1.4 million in reserve
      -125,000 in the Revolutionary Guard Corps with another 390,000 in reserve
      -Solid fuel missiles that can hit just about anywhere in Saudi Arabia
      -Russian S-400s
      -An estimated 50,000 - 60,000 in Hezbollah and the Shi'a militias
      -100,000 Yemeni Houthis
      -Been in active armed conflict as of, what, last week?

      Then there's the topographical differences. A war of aggression for the Saudis would be a logistical nightmare as the Iranian navy is massively larger, making assault from the Persian Gulf or Gulf of Oman a no-go. They would have to move through Iraq into Iran, which becomes mountainous and dense with forests the closer you get to Tehran. All the while, they would be exposed to the Houthis in the south and Hezbollah to the north and north-west. I don't care how good Patriot is, you still need to make strategic decisions on where to deploy your radar and the Saudis do not have enough systems to defend Riyadh, their military bases and their oil fields from every direction.

      Oh, there's also the fact that Iran has demonstrated in Iran-Iraq that they are capable of mobilizing the entire nation, including children, when faced with armed conflict with Arabs. It would not even be close if the Saudis had to fight the Iranians without US troops.
      Last edited by unhappymeal; 09-20-2019 at 10:29 AM.

    7. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 19th, 2002
      Location
      CLT NC
      Posts
      10,350
      Vehicles
      3 Audis, 1 Honda, 1 GMC
      09-20-2019 10:59 AM #231
      Quote Originally Posted by unhappymeal View Post
      What? Did you miss the last five decades of world history? Iran demonstrating that they can disrupt the world's energy supplies with zero consequence is nothingburger? We have been down this road before with North Korea. We refused to engage them, attempted to coerce them into complying and we still ended up in a situation where they have the bomb, but are more belligerent than if we had frankly bribed them.

      As for the Saudis, I'm sorry, but I need a few minutes to recover from laughing my ass off. The Saudis have 127,000 active personnel with 100,000 in reserves, haven't engaged in a serious military conflict in 50+ years and lost every sortie of consequence with the Houthis. Iran has:

      -523,000 active duty
      -1.4 million in reserve
      -125,000 in the Revolutionary Guard Corps with another 390,000 in reserve
      -Solid fuel missiles that can hit just about anywhere in Saudi Arabia
      -Russian S-400s
      -An estimated 50,000 - 60,000 in Hezbollah and the Shi'a militias
      -100,000 Yemeni Houthis
      -Been in active armed conflict as of, what, last week?

      Then there's the topographical differences. A war of aggression for the Saudis would be a logistical nightmare as the Iranian navy is massively larger, making assault from the Persian Gulf or Gulf of Oman a no-go. They would have to move through Iraq into Iran, which becomes mountainous and dense with forests the closer you get to Tehran. All the while, they would be exposed to the Houthis in the south and Hezbollah to the north and north-west. I don't care how good Patriot is, you still need to make strategic decisions on where to deploy your radar and the Saudis do not have enough systems to defend Riyadh, their military bases and their oil fields from every direction.

      Oh, there's also the fact that Iran has demonstrated in Iran-Iraq that they are capable of mobilizing the entire nation, including children, when faced with armed conflict with Arabs. It would not even be close if the Saudis had to fight the Iranians without US troops.
      Don't laugh too much. The Saudis have one single bullet-point advantage that more than negates everything Iran could throw at them, the US DOD. Despite all the differences between the US and SA, at the end of the day if Iran goes to war with SA (and esp if oil fields are impacted), we go to war too. So says every agreement we've had with them for 80 years. Your last sentence would never come to fruition, there would be no without. It's the entire reasoning for why SA doesn't have a larger, more capable military. Black gold runs the show.
      Last edited by tbvvw; 09-20-2019 at 11:03 AM.

    8. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 27th, 2014
      Location
      Canada
      Posts
      1,005
      Vehicles
      2017 Golf R, 2017 Miata RF, 2017 Genesis G90
      09-20-2019 11:31 AM #232
      Quote Originally Posted by tbvvw View Post
      Don't laugh too much. The Saudis have one single bullet-point advantage that more than negates everything Iran could throw at them, the US DOD. Despite all the differences between the US and SA, at the end of the day if Iran goes to war with SA (and esp if oil fields are impacted), we go to war too. So says every agreement we've had with them for 80 years. Your last sentence would never come to fruition, there would be no without. It's the entire reasoning for why SA doesn't have a larger, more capable military. Black gold runs the show.
      I was answering MonsterM's point regarding the US sitting back and letting the Saudis do the fighting. As to the likelihood of war itself, there is not a single politician right now with the will to put American boots on the ground or a pilot at risk to fight a Saudi war of aggression, especially going into an election season. You can see it in how the Mango Mussolini has changed his tune with his tweets. US support for the KSA is the lowest it has been since 9/11. It would be political suicide to put US lives on the line for them. But yes, you are technically correct that if war broke out, the US is obliged to aid the Saudis and it would be a bloodbath for everyone involved.

      Hence why I return to my point, which is widely shared by foreign policy community, that it's better to co-opt Iran than try to coerce them.
      Last edited by unhappymeal; 09-20-2019 at 11:34 AM.

    9. Member
      Join Date
      Feb 11th, 2012
      Location
      Santa Barbara, CA
      Posts
      681
      09-20-2019 11:37 AM #233
      No pilot needs to risk their life

      Drones, cruise missiles: not exactly rocket science
      https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/09/op...ocket-science/
      Quote Originally Posted by PsyberVW View Post
      Locking it up because it's going to get worse mileage than a 1 legged dog with a hang over - yet stir up more crap than a starving catfish in a landfill.

    10. Member child_in_time's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 9th, 2006
      Posts
      1,396
      Vehicles
      2015 GTI
      09-20-2019 11:48 AM #234
      So all this defense technology US is selling to Saudis, has not been able to stop drones / missiles from flying in...yeah right. The whole fu*king thing seems orchestrated...
      Somewhere, John Bolton and the likes are salivating...

    11. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 27th, 2014
      Location
      Canada
      Posts
      1,005
      Vehicles
      2017 Golf R, 2017 Miata RF, 2017 Genesis G90
      09-20-2019 11:49 AM #235
      Quote Originally Posted by Roberto Dimento View Post
      Sure...what's your plan for after the drone and cruise missile strikes? There's still 1.65 million square kilometres to be occupied and 83 million people. Unless your plan is to just lob missiles back and forth from now until eternity?

    12. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 27th, 2014
      Location
      Canada
      Posts
      1,005
      Vehicles
      2017 Golf R, 2017 Miata RF, 2017 Genesis G90
      09-20-2019 11:52 AM #236
      Quote Originally Posted by child_in_time View Post
      So all this defense technology US is selling to Saudis, has not been able to stop drones / missiles from flying in...yeah right. The whole fu*king thing seems orchestrated...
      Somewhere, John Bolton and the likes are salivating...
      Well, the Saudis only have six Patriot batteries and most of the radar systems are pointed south towards Yemen. Also, success rates are multiplicative, so if you fire enough stuff at it, something is going to get through. There's a reason why the Russian responseto the Patriot deployments in Europe and Alaska has been to withdraw from and/or violate treaties and stockpile ICBMs and cruise missiles.

    13. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 19th, 2002
      Location
      CLT NC
      Posts
      10,350
      Vehicles
      3 Audis, 1 Honda, 1 GMC
      09-20-2019 12:05 PM #237
      Quote Originally Posted by unhappymeal View Post
      I was answering MonsterM's point regarding the US sitting back and letting the Saudis do the fighting. As to the likelihood of war itself, there is not a single politician right now with the will to put American boots on the ground or a pilot at risk to fight a Saudi war of aggression, especially going into an election season. You can see it in how the Mango Mussolini has changed his tune with his tweets. US support for the KSA is the lowest it has been since 9/11. It would be political suicide to put US lives on the line for them. But yes, you are technically correct that if war broke out, the US is obliged to aid the Saudis and it would be a bloodbath for everyone involved.

      Hence why I return to my point, which is widely shared by foreign policy community, that it's better to co-opt Iran than try to coerce them.
      Ah, ok - I see that now.

      Yes, agreed that there's zero desire to pursue any military action, but as we both agree, sometimes that's not within our control. Initially, Bush Sr had zero desire to fight Iraq, until....we all know what happened.

    14. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 17th, 2009
      Location
      Leavenworth, WA
      Posts
      2,060
      Vehicles
      2002 camry
      09-20-2019 12:08 PM #238
      we are going to occupy Iran? Why? They wanna lob missiles... we'll lob some missiles.
      Quote Originally Posted by mitch hedberg
      I drive a rental car, I don't know what's going on with it, right? So a lot of times I'll drive for like 10 miles with the emergency brake on. That doesn't say a lot for me, but it really doesn't say a lot for the emergency brake.
      Quote Originally Posted by Robstr View Post
      How hard is that to understand without getting your panties in a bunch?
      Surely some of you guys managed to make it out of middle school.

    15. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 8th, 2003
      Location
      Pickup Truck Capital of US
      Posts
      15,461
      Vehicles
      Audi S3, BMW X3, and a Toyota Appiiance
      09-20-2019 12:10 PM #239
      Quote Originally Posted by tbvvw View Post
      Ah, ok - I see that now.

      Yes, agreed that there's zero desire to pursue any military action, but as we both agree, sometimes that's not within our control. Initially, Bush Sr had zero desire to fight Iraq, until....we all know what happened.
      Beer: The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.

    16. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 27th, 2014
      Location
      Canada
      Posts
      1,005
      Vehicles
      2017 Golf R, 2017 Miata RF, 2017 Genesis G90
      09-20-2019 12:16 PM #240
      Quote Originally Posted by Lightnin' View Post
      we are going to occupy Iran? Why? They wanna lob missiles... we'll lob some missiles.
      Because the original post was about if war broke out between the Saudis and Iranians, which would drag the US in and put US lives at risk. If all we (being the US and the Saudis) do is end up lobbing missiles back and forth, then the Iranians win that escalation ladder. Iran has far less to lose than the Saudis, can sustain more damage and has more options to avoid a decapitation strike. The Saudis, not so much. Their entire population is concentrated in the south west and western parts of the peninsula with next to no mountains. They are also exposed to the north, south and east to attacks from Iran and her proxies.

    17. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 15th, 2017
      Location
      Memphis
      Posts
      193
      Vehicles
      1999 Escalade
      09-20-2019 12:40 PM #241
      Quote Originally Posted by unhappymeal View Post
      Because the original post was about if war broke out between the Saudis and Iranians, which would drag the US in and put US lives at risk. If all we (being the US and the Saudis) do is end up lobbing missiles back and forth, then the Iranians win that escalation ladder. Iran has far less to lose than the Saudis, can sustain more damage and has more options to avoid a decapitation strike. The Saudis, not so much. Their entire population is concentrated in the south west and western parts of the peninsula with next to no mountains. They are also exposed to the north, south and east to attacks from Iran and her proxies.
      And your answer is that SA just takes it in the shorts for eternity?

    18. 09-20-2019 12:43 PM #242
      Quote Originally Posted by unhappymeal View Post
      I was answering MonsterM's point regarding the US sitting back and letting the Saudis do the fighting. As to the likelihood of war itself, there is not a single politician right now with the will to put American boots on the ground or a pilot at risk to fight a Saudi war of aggression, especially going into an election season. You can see it in how the Mango Mussolini has changed his tune with his tweets. US support for the KSA is the lowest it has been since 9/11. It would be political suicide to put US lives on the line for them. But yes, you are technically correct that if war broke out, the US is obliged to aid the Saudis and it would be a bloodbath for everyone involved.

      Hence why I return to my point, which is widely shared by foreign policy community, that it's better to co-opt Iran than try to coerce them.
      It seems like we are agreeing on this point. Unless an all out war breaks out, there is little to no chance US is getting involved in another ME conflict under President Trump. Despite what narrative fake news is trying to push right now. Also, this incident had little to no impact on US gasoline prices or supply, hence the nothingburger comment, at least for the USA.

    19. Member
      Join Date
      Jan 18th, 2018
      Posts
      4,525
      Vehicles
      '16 TLX SH-AWD- NA is BEST
      09-20-2019 01:08 PM #243
      Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
      And your answer is that SA just takes it in the shorts for eternity?
      W/o US backing, what other choice do they have? In an Iran-SA 1 on 1 it's no contest.

    20. 09-20-2019 01:09 PM #244
      As far as energy prices go. I agree this single attack is a nothing burger. It's the threat of ongoing strikes that will cause prices to rise.

      This single strike could be the Iranians showing the world their capabilities, it could also be a test of the world's reaction or a test of their ability to strike vs. SA ability to defend its oil infrastructure. The ball is clearly in Iran's court as far as the next move and we are powerless to do anything short of all out war which we all agree is highly unlikely.

      Iran needs the nuclear deal as much or more than the rest of the world. They know they wont get a deal with the current administration, they are playing the long game. This has got to be part of the plan to get the parties back to the table with Iran having positioned itself with much more leverage. Any potential rise in energy prices is icing on the cake as it has a high probability of hurting Trump's reelection bid.

      Like it or not this was the perfect plan for Iran. Very low risk as far as significant retaliation and better than average upside for getting relief from American led sanctions.

      Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

    21. 09-20-2019 01:13 PM #245
      Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
      And your answer is that SA just takes it in the shorts for eternity?
      SA take it in the shorts? WTF.

      SA is the biggest exporter of........ extremism in the world. The extreme interpretation of Islam used by Al Qaeda and ISIS came from them. They still practice it in their country. They aren't the good guys or victims in all this.

      Why is everyone so upset that Iran supplied the rebels weapons? We provide SA the weapons they drop on Yemen daily for the last few years. Did no one think they'd fight back? It's a war. So we're concerned that terrorists bombed the country of other terrorists, and then got bombed back? GTFO.



      Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

    22. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 27th, 2014
      Location
      Canada
      Posts
      1,005
      Vehicles
      2017 Golf R, 2017 Miata RF, 2017 Genesis G90
      09-20-2019 02:06 PM #246
      Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
      And your answer is that SA just takes it in the shorts for eternity?
      Actually, yes. With the US signalling that they are unwilling to strike back, the Saudis have no choice but to continue taking a pummeling from Iran and the Houthis. That is why you saw the White House walk back their rhetoric and resort to more sanctions. There is no play here for the Saudis other than risking an all-out war, which the US has demonstrated that they have no interest in. By using the Quds systems, Iran left plausible deniability on the table so everyone has a way out. It just sucks because Iran has demonstrated they have all the leverage. Somewhere in Tehran, the Supreme Leader and Rouhani are eating caviar with ****-eating grins on their faces looking forward to the next nuclear talks. Putin is probably also there patting them on the backs and thanking them for the extra millions his oligarch friends will make as oil trades at higher prices in the future.

      Edit: It might sound like I am being too hard on the Saudis, but I am not. I am being realistic. The Kingdom has interfered with Iran's allies and meddled in Iran's foreign affairs. Iran is making its displeasure with the Kingdom known and demonstrating that the Crown Prince is not in as strong a position as he thought he was.
      Last edited by unhappymeal; 09-20-2019 at 02:28 PM.

    23. Member HI SPEED's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 3rd, 2004
      Location
      Honolulu
      Posts
      5,826
      09-20-2019 03:41 PM #247
      Quote Originally Posted by unhappymeal View Post
      Actually, yes. With the US signalling that they are unwilling to strike back, the Saudis have no choice but to continue taking a pummeling from Iran and the Houthis. That is why you saw the White House walk back their rhetoric and resort to more sanctions. There is no play here for the Saudis other than risking an all-out war, which the US has demonstrated that they have no interest in. By using the Quds systems, Iran left plausible deniability on the table so everyone has a way out. It just sucks because Iran has demonstrated they have all the leverage. Somewhere in Tehran, the Supreme Leader and Rouhani are eating caviar with ****-eating grins on their faces looking forward to the next nuclear talks. Putin is probably also there patting them on the backs and thanking them for the extra millions his oligarch friends will make as oil trades at higher prices in the future.

      Edit: It might sound like I am being too hard on the Saudis, but I am not. I am being realistic. The Kingdom has interfered with Iran's allies and meddled in Iran's foreign affairs. Iran is making its displeasure with the Kingdom known and demonstrating that the Crown Prince is not in as strong a position as he thought he was.
      Agreed.

      Not sure why we publicly claimed to have no interest in an armed conflict. This is a situation where it was better to just say nothing, and let them draw their own conclusions if we are willing to get involved.

    24. Member Senior Member's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 1st, 2016
      Location
      Original Join Date 2001 Central NJ
      Posts
      1,736
      Vehicles
      01 MKIV Jetta 1.8t
      09-20-2019 04:00 PM #248
      Iran is like bats in your attic, setting the attic on fire (full out war) will sure get rid of the bats!

    25. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 27th, 2014
      Location
      Canada
      Posts
      1,005
      Vehicles
      2017 Golf R, 2017 Miata RF, 2017 Genesis G90
      09-20-2019 04:44 PM #249
      Quote Originally Posted by HI SPEED View Post
      Agreed.

      Not sure why we publicly claimed to have no interest in an armed conflict. This is a situation where it was better to just say nothing, and let them draw their own conclusions if we are willing to get involved.
      From a foreign policy point of view, the best course was to say nothing and reach out behind the scenes. Unfortunately, the Donald knows the US has no stomach to defend the Saudis and wants to get re-elected again, so he was very vocal about the US position.

    26. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 22nd, 2008
      Location
      Hood River, oregon/ Seattle
      Posts
      3,212
      Vehicles
      two Audis, 79 wabbit diesel, two 84 jettas/85 jetta TD
      09-22-2019 10:41 AM #250
      Yemeni Rebels Warn Iran Plans Another Strike Soon
      Houthi militants in Yemen have warned foreign diplomats that Iran is preparing a follow-up strike to the missile and drone attack that crippled Saudi Arabia’s oil industry.
      . WSJ today
      Quote Originally Posted by Blackohio
      Built in boost gauge in the dash. One of my friends at the time saw that turbo was on theoretical empty and asked if we needed to stop and get more turbo. I gave it gas and he was like wait, its full now. Had to quickly explain the process.
      Quote Originally Posted by Calcvictim View Post
      so basically the OP has no clue about anything and just posts out of his ass?

    Page 10 of 18 FirstFirst ... 67891011121314 ... LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •