VWVortex.com - Auto strike idles more than 50 GM factories and warehouses
Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    The Car Lounge
    Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
    Results 26 to 50 of 74

    Thread: Auto strike idles more than 50 GM factories and warehouses

    1. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 19th, 2006
      Location
      Arden, NC
      Posts
      3,806
      Vehicles
      2009 BMW 328it
      09-17-2019 08:28 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by iliveoncaffiene View Post
      OT: I read that the average UAW salary for full-time (GM at least) is $90,000. I don't know much about factory jobs or what that entails (and sorry if I'm stepping on some toes here), but that seems like a hell of a lot for a factory job in some of these factory towns. That, or maybe I'm just out of the loop.
      LOL. I'd like to see a source for that. Most assembly line workers are hourly, and most of the insane numbers quoted include PTO, projected disability, and health insurance costs. I would also be willing to bet that includes OT, since some plants are run at >100% capacity with mandatory overtime at 1.5x their hourly rate, and that's a management problem, not a worker problem.

      So yeah, I could see where its possible that a couple of workers could've cost GM $90k, but there's no way that's the average.

      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      Agree 100%. We have labor laws, OSHA, and other measures now to actually protect workers. Today Unions only serve to protect the lazy, discourage the hard workers and impede productivity.
      And what makes you think those won't be rolled back if the unions went away? Hell, look at a steel mill in India. They wear flip flops, cotton shorts and tee shirts, while in America, we have to wear $1000 worth of company provided PPE. It is not unbelievable to imagine a large corporation "investing" lobbying dollars to have those laws repealed to make themselves more competitive in the global marketplace.

    2. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    3. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 23rd, 2005
      Location
      Columbus, Ohio
      Posts
      13,509
      Vehicles
      2016 Mazda CX-5  2013 Ford Focus Electric
      09-17-2019 08:58 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0_Mazda View Post
      While they made sense when first created and have done a lot of good in terms of bettering working conditions, I don't see the point anymore.
      Maybe things are better for the average worker in Canada, but in the US people have been working longer and longer hours as union membership declines.




      And wages haven't really gone up in that time either.



      I won't disagree that there are issues with unions protecting bad workers, but it's difficult to argue that they don't have at least some positive effect on workers overall regardless of whether your job is unionized.

    4. Member robr2's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 5th, 2005
      Location
      Boston
      Posts
      8,343
      Vehicles
      2015 Passat "Limited Edition"
      09-17-2019 09:02 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by mrothwell View Post
      LOL. I'd like to see a source for that. Most assembly line workers are hourly, and most of the insane numbers quoted include PTO, projected disability, and health insurance costs. I would also be willing to bet that includes OT, since some plants are run at >100% capacity with mandatory overtime at 1.5x their hourly rate, and that's a management problem, not a worker problem.

      So yeah, I could see where its possible that a couple of workers could've cost GM $90k, but there's no way that's the average.

      This - hourly pay is between $17 and $30 depending on longevity. Total average compensation for GM is $63 per hour including all benefits of which healthcare is the greatest. In comparison, Ford is $61 and FCA is $55.

    5. Member
      Join Date
      Feb 19th, 2015
      Posts
      1,397
      Vehicles
      small car that does it all, incredibly reliable too
      09-17-2019 09:17 AM #29
      No surprise a big sticking point is healthcare benefits. GM wants to give them less and so does Trump. It's too bad el presidente doesn't change his direction here and give them more healthcare presidents. But that would be insane for Trump to come to the rescue of the people, he'd rather waste his time giving the rich more tax cuts and watch the government drown in debt.

    6. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 5th, 2014
      Location
      Toledo, OH
      Posts
      141
      Vehicles
      2001 Jetta TDI 5 speed blue lagoon metallic
      09-17-2019 10:49 AM #30
      Have any of you here had to work a timed job where you have 56 seconds to complete 50 seconds worth of tasks? Oh, and you have to do it for 10 hours all day on a line that's moving, you can't drop a nut or bolt or else you 'll behind. Not to mention you're forced to work 7 days a week under "launch language."

      "Just walk a mile in his moccasins
      Before you abuse, criticize and accuse.
      If just for one hour, you could find a way
      To see through his eyes, instead of your own muse."

      Excerpt from "Walk a Mile in His Moccasins" by Mary T. Lathrap (1895)


      Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

    7. Moderator DanG's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 16th, 2000
      Location
      Winnipeg
      Posts
      11,531
      Vehicles
      2017 Explorer
      09-17-2019 10:57 AM #31
      I can't find the article now, but it was saying the $90k/year was what each employee cost GM, not what they were getting paid. Benefits, holiday time, etc were all part of that figure.
      °.lllllll.° - Gone but not forgotten

    8. Member Tommietank's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 6th, 2009
      Location
      Burlington, VT
      Posts
      2,540
      Vehicles
      2017 BMW i3, 2018 Clarity, 2019 Model 3 Performance
      09-17-2019 11:08 AM #32
      I love all the GM shareholders coming out of the woodwork in here to protest 50,000 people trying to get a raise. Should union workers, white collar folks, or straight up execs not be able to capitalize on getting a raise?
      Slow Car Fast

    9. Member CostcoPizza's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 20th, 2008
      Location
      Los Angeles
      Posts
      6,278
      Vehicles
      '12 MINI Clubman S '85 Mercedes-Benz 280CE
      09-17-2019 11:26 AM #33
      Healthcare costs are a big part of this.

      Why aren't companies pushing for single payer?

    10. Member
      Join Date
      Oct 22nd, 2007
      Location
      Syracuse, NY
      Posts
      2,414
      Vehicles
      982, F22, E88, etc.
      09-17-2019 11:45 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      One word: overcapacity.

      GM does not care about this strike. It allows them to hide their capacity issue and let the union leadership (losership, given the recent scandals) a chance to buff themselves in the eyes of the rank and file.

      If anything, the UAW and GM are dancing together on this one.

      Two weeks of strike now is two weeks of shutdown in May that don't have to happen. Spreads the pain for the suppliers, too.
      I agree. I had been wondering if and how they would taper production as new car sales slow. I doubt they conspired but I wouldn't be surprised if GM executives look like this right about now:


      Hopefully this can be a win-win, e.g., GM gets a free shutdown and the workers get some profit sharing. I hope they don't negotiate to keep open plants if they really don't need them though.
      Last edited by ghost03; 09-17-2019 at 11:48 AM.

    11. Member 2 doors's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 18th, 2003
      Location
      Baltimore, MD
      Posts
      5,345
      Vehicles
      '19 Accord EX Hybrid, '16 e-Golf SE, '04 Sequoia SR5, '92 F-250 4X4, '00 GTI 1.8T
      09-17-2019 12:10 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by JDSwan87 View Post
      Have any of you here had to work a timed job where you have 56 seconds to complete 50 seconds worth of tasks? Oh, and you have to do it for 10 hours all day on a line that's moving, you can't drop a nut or bolt or else you 'll behind. Not to mention you're forced to work 7 days a week under "launch language."
      You mean those 10 hour days and 7 days a week where you're making time and a half or double time over 40 hours? No, I haven't. I went to college and got an Engineering degree. That way, when I go in to help cover some of those same hours to support that build, I'm not getting paid any more for it. My hourly rate goes DOWN. It's just "expected" of me.

    12. Member roman16v's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 18th, 2001
      Location
      Cypress, TX
      Posts
      1,806
      Vehicles
      Explorer PI, LS430, GX460
      09-17-2019 12:12 PM #36
      Love how all the Democratic candidates are supporting the strikers... they know how important that vote is.

    13. Senior Member Silly_me's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 26th, 1999
      Location
      The Blueass State
      Posts
      27,786
      09-17-2019 12:20 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by CostcoPizza View Post
      Why aren't companies pushing for single payer?
      It would cost them more in taxes.
      Germans are white people. Look up #84 on the list of things white people like: Gear. Lots of Gear. We even have gear farkles over here. -Atomicalex

      Upon my word I have had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers. -James Byford McCudden

    14. Member Jimmy Russells's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 4th, 2007
      Location
      Vancouver
      Posts
      16,031
      Vehicles
      RS3, JKU
      09-17-2019 12:23 PM #38
      Just think about how much more GM could pay their employees if they didn't have to deal with the union and their crap all the time.

    15. Member
      Join Date
      Jan 18th, 2018
      Posts
      4,512
      Vehicles
      '16 TLX SH-AWD- NA is BEST
      09-17-2019 12:27 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      You mean those 10 hour days and 7 days a week where you're making time and a half or double time over 40 hours? No, I haven't. I went to college and got an Engineering degree. That way, when I go in to help cover some of those same hours to support that build, I'm not getting paid any more for it. My hourly rate goes DOWN. It's just "expected" of me.
      So everyone should bend over and take it because you choose to?

    16. Member ice4life's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 5th, 2017
      Location
      DEN
      Posts
      3,795
      Vehicles
      19 Arteon SEL-P
      09-17-2019 12:29 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      You mean those 10 hour days and 7 days a week where you're making time and a half or double time over 40 hours? No, I haven't. I went to college and got an Engineering degree. That way, when I go in to help cover some of those same hours to support that build, I'm not getting paid any more for it. My hourly rate goes DOWN. It's just "expected" of me.
      Yeah and I suppose all the days you leave work early on Friday to meet up with buddies for a beer doesn't offset the expectation of you as an exempt worker right? I used to do corporate restructuring for a living. The exempt, non-exempt argument is so tired. It is clearly offset, and a majority of positions in the workplace are mislabeled thanks to the glorious lack of oversight on FLSA's part.

    17. Member Tommietank's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 6th, 2009
      Location
      Burlington, VT
      Posts
      2,540
      Vehicles
      2017 BMW i3, 2018 Clarity, 2019 Model 3 Performance
      09-17-2019 12:37 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      You mean those 10 hour days and 7 days a week where you're making time and a half or double time over 40 hours? No, I haven't. I went to college and got an Engineering degree. That way, when I go in to help cover some of those same hours to support that build, I'm not getting paid any more for it. My hourly rate goes DOWN. It's just "expected" of me.
      I love the "I can't get mine so you shouldn't either". Unreal. Sounds like you can go find a better job anytime dude. Or maybe band up with your co-workers and..... oh nevermind.


      Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Russells View Post
      Just think about how much more GM could pay their employees if they didn't have to deal with the union and their crap all the time.

      You might want to replace the word "could" with "would". https://www.latimes.com/business/la-...329-story.html

      "Wages vary by company and geographic region, making exact comparisons difficult. Average labor costs — wages and benefits — for the unionized Detroit automakers and nonunion Toyota’s U.S. plants are about the same at $55 an hour, according to the Center for Automotive Research. But the rest pay less; nonunion Honda pays about $50 an hour. Nissan, Hyundai and Kia are at about $45."
      Last edited by Tommietank; 09-17-2019 at 12:43 PM.
      Slow Car Fast

    18. Member Meroving1an's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 19th, 2007
      Location
      San Francisco, CA
      Posts
      1,195
      Vehicles
      Present: 991.1 GT3 Past: ND MX-5, GVB STI
      09-17-2019 12:40 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      I love the "I can't get mine so you shouldn't either". Unreal. Sounds like you can go find a better job anytime dude. Or maybe band up with your co-workers and..... oh nevermind.
      Or the "I got mine so F you!" mentality. Equally pervasive these days.

    19. Member IdontOwnAVW's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 17th, 2004
      Location
      Wilmington DE
      Posts
      6,835
      Vehicles
      Rabbit TDI, MK4 2.0, 04 GTO
      09-17-2019 12:53 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by iliveoncaffiene View Post
      Only anecdote I have from a union is from a former co-worker:
      Gets hired to do some IT-related setup in a factory with union jobs. Almost finishes what he's supposed to do, but can't do something (equivalent of rebooting a machine or something) that would have taken him 5 extra minutes because, "That's a union job. You have to let the union guy do it".
      I drive trucks for a Production Company as a union driver when they're out of their in-house guys.

      If I deliver to a sports venue in Philadelphia I can back the truck up to the dock and open the door. I am not allowed to unload the truck, let alone break the straps loose. They have a group of people that do that and then once it's off the truck another union team of stagehands then takes those cases and works on assembling it. Process is in reverse for load-outs. I am only there to make sure the stuff gets to and from its destination in one piece.
      IG: @geeofff
      MK1 TDI Swap

    20. Member 2 doors's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 18th, 2003
      Location
      Baltimore, MD
      Posts
      5,345
      Vehicles
      '19 Accord EX Hybrid, '16 e-Golf SE, '04 Sequoia SR5, '92 F-250 4X4, '00 GTI 1.8T
      09-17-2019 12:56 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      Yeah and I suppose all the days you leave work early on Friday to meet up with buddies for a beer doesn't offset the expectation of you as an exempt worker right?
      You're right. That's to make up for the time I had to spend waiting around for a union guy to show up and complete a simple task.

      - My machine stopped running.
      - Well, pull out the stuck piece and get back to work
      - That's maintenance's job.
      - Where's maintenance?
      - They're on break for the next 30 minutes
      - So continue to sit here with your thumb up your ass and wait for them then.

      - Where's Joe today? He didn't come in.
      - Oh, per the union contract, we're allowed one unexcused absence every 60 days. He just hit that, so he decided to blow off work today.

      - Why are you sitting there doing nothing? You've still got 30 minutes.
      - I hit my quota, so I'm done.


      Great examples of unions protecting "hard working Americans"

    21. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 23rd, 2009
      Location
      Montreal, Qc
      Posts
      6,618
      Vehicles
      2014 Mazda3 Sport GS - 1982 Honda CB750K
      09-17-2019 12:56 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      I love the "I can't get mine so you shouldn't either". Unreal. Sounds like you can go find a better job anytime dude. Or maybe band up with your co-workers and..... oh nevermind.
      i had no idea we still shacked people to machines and forced them to work…

      labour workers are very handsomely paid. as babyboomer are leaving the workforce, you literally can find a job anywhere you'd like. and with national health and safety standards for working conditions, there is absolutely no reason to b!tch about working.

      unions are making better reasons to have our sh!t manufactured elsewhere.
      http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-metric/286588.png
      Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy.

    22. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 23rd, 2009
      Location
      Montreal, Qc
      Posts
      6,618
      Vehicles
      2014 Mazda3 Sport GS - 1982 Honda CB750K
      09-17-2019 12:58 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      You're right. That's to make up for the time I had to spend waiting around for a union guy to show up and complete a simple task.

      - My machine stopped running.
      - Well, pull out the stuck piece and get back to work
      - That's maintenance's job.
      - Where's maintenance?
      - They're on break for the next 30 minutes
      - So continue to sit here with your thumb up your ass and wait for them then.

      - Where's Joe today? He didn't come in.
      - Oh, per the union contract, we're allowed one unexcused absence every 60 days. He just hit that, so he decided to blow off work today.

      - Why are you sitting there doing nothing? You've still got 30 minutes.
      - I hit my quota, so I'm done.


      Great examples of unions protecting "hard working Americans"
      exactly. where working harder goes unrewarded.
      http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-metric/286588.png
      Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy.

    23. Member 88c900t's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 6th, 2014
      Location
      "typical wisconsin rust"
      Posts
      8,806
      Vehicles
      17 Focus ST2, Mazdaspeed Miata, montego NA8 .
      09-17-2019 12:59 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      You mean those 10 hour days and 7 days a week where you're making time and a half or double time over 40 hours? No, I haven't. I went to college and got an Engineering degree. That way, when I go in to help cover some of those same hours to support that build, I'm not getting paid any more for it. My hourly rate goes DOWN. It's just "expected" of me.
      Well, at least you can actually use your personal and vacation time, and salaried people get a tonne of both and generally can use them whenever they want.

      Getting approved for a vacation day is like pulling teeth here, and personal time is even worse. Vacation a whole month in advance has a decent chance of being rejected, and company policy dictates personal time can't be used within 7 days of a holiday (ruling out much of the year) or applied for over a month in advance. But my pay is higher than average for the industry.


      Since Feb 2018 I've literally taken 3 vacation days and zero personal days. The labor conflict is probably less over compensation and more over ridiculous hours/time off policy.


      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      You're right. That's to make up for the time I had to spend waiting around for a union guy to show up and complete a simple task.

      - My machine stopped running.
      - Well, pull out the stuck piece and get back to work
      - That's maintenance's job.
      - Where's maintenance?
      - They're on break for the next 30 minutes
      - So continue to sit here with your thumb up your ass and wait for them then.

      - Where's Joe today? He didn't come in.
      - Oh, per the union contract, we're allowed one unexcused absence every 60 days. He just hit that, so he decided to blow off work today.

      - Why are you sitting there doing nothing? You've still got 30 minutes.
      - I hit my quota, so I'm done.


      Great examples of unions protecting "hard working Americans"
      Don't hate the player, hate the game. Not like the average prole can do anything about the union policies.

      At a previous sh*thole job, I had the option to not join the union thanks to Gov Walker since it was still a lousy place to work and the union accomplished f*** all. Loved everyone I worked with, but it was a dead-end job (that payed 20% less than the market rate) during a once a decade economic expansion period, so leaving there was a no-brainer.
      Last edited by 88c900t; 09-17-2019 at 01:09 PM.
      I gave up dailing old and rare cars and became a normie.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
      I like this guy, I like this guy a lot.
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
      Quote Originally Posted by volvohutter View Post
      You'll always get a pass due to your history of owning classy and sophisticated automobiles

    24. Member
      Join Date
      Jan 18th, 2018
      Posts
      4,512
      Vehicles
      '16 TLX SH-AWD- NA is BEST
      09-17-2019 01:03 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      You're right. That's to make up for the time I had to spend waiting around for a union guy to show up and complete a simple task.

      - My machine stopped running.
      - Well, pull out the stuck piece and get back to work
      - That's maintenance's job.
      - Where's maintenance?
      - They're on break for the next 30 minutes
      - So continue to sit here with your thumb up your ass and wait for them then.

      - Where's Joe today? He didn't come in.
      - Oh, per the union contract, we're allowed one unexcused absence every 60 days. He just hit that, so he decided to blow off work today.

      - Why are you sitting there doing nothing? You've still got 30 minutes.
      - I hit my quota, so I'm done.


      Great examples of unions protecting "hard working Americans"
      You're free to try and break the union up, or take up a job where you don't have to deal with union labor. Either way, as a favor for us, please choose whatever easy avenue ends your whining

    25. Member ice4life's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 5th, 2017
      Location
      DEN
      Posts
      3,795
      Vehicles
      19 Arteon SEL-P
      09-17-2019 01:05 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      You're right. That's to make up for the time I had to spend waiting around for a union guy to show up and complete a simple task.

      - My machine stopped running.
      - Well, pull out the stuck piece and get back to work
      - That's maintenance's job.
      - Where's maintenance?
      - They're on break for the next 30 minutes
      - So continue to sit here with your thumb up your ass and wait for them then.

      - Where's Joe today? He didn't come in.
      - Oh, per the union contract, we're allowed one unexcused absence every 60 days. He just hit that, so he decided to blow off work today.

      - Why are you sitting there doing nothing? You've still got 30 minutes.
      - I hit my quota, so I'm done.


      Great examples of unions protecting "hard working Americans"
      Sounds like you need a new company to work for as there are internal issues beyond your control. This was not my experience working for fortune 500 companies at all. In fact, these were the types of companies I restructured.

    26. Member
      Join Date
      Jan 18th, 2018
      Posts
      4,512
      Vehicles
      '16 TLX SH-AWD- NA is BEST
      09-17-2019 01:06 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      i had no idea we still shacked people to machines and forced them to work…

      labour workers are very handsomely paid. as babyboomer are leaving the workforce, you literally can find a job anywhere you'd like. and with national health and safety standards for working conditions, there is absolutely no reason to b!tch about working.

      unions are making better reasons to have our sh!t manufactured elsewhere.
      Baby boomers are not leaving the workforce

      https://www.barrons.com/articles/bab...re-51557948765

      And there's more to good work standards than health and safety.

      A certain subset of America has it so good their worst problems are being annoyed by other people's legitimate complaints.

    Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •