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    View Poll Results: Hey TCL CEO, what WOOD you do to save Kia Stinger?

    Voters
    60. You may not vote on this poll
    • Add a MANUAL transmission option...

      20 33.33%
    • Make it all-electric...

      12 20.00%
    • Raise the ground clearance, and make it SUC (Sports Utility Coupe)

      10 16.67%
    • Nothing. Sedan segment is dead, kill the second generation.

      12 20.00%
    • I have another way I can save the Stinger from extinction...

      6 10.00%
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    Thread: Hey TCL CEO, what WOOD you do to save Kia Stinger?

    1. 09-20-2019 03:01 AM #126
      Quote Originally Posted by unhappymeal View Post
      I see more Palisades than Tellurides up here, but yeah, Hyundai/KIA are finally focusing on the market segments they need to. The Stinger should've been a Genesis to begin with, full stop.

      That's a common argument for those who don't full understand the relationship btwn Hyundai and Kia (say the same thing for the K9/K900).

      H and K compete against each other, so Kia does their own thing when it comes to their lux models.

      Kia may end up doing their own lux CUV based on the upcoming GV80 (or GV70).





      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      That said, I disagree with the Kia manager - Genesis is a luxury sport sedan. The Stinger doesn't have to be luxurious, and therefore it can (and SHOULD) be sportier. There should be a mass-market GTS offering with that trick differential, firmer suspension, and a manual transmission.
      While I agree that the Stinger should have a sportier variant (reportedly, there's a more track-focused variant in development, but who knows if it will make it to production?), the Stinger was always meant to be a Gran Turismo, while the smaller G70 was meant to be a sports sedan.

      And for the price, think Kia could have done a better job w/ the interior; no reason why the F/L Cadenza should have the more premium interior.



      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      I am pretty sure you can get a Q50 RS for Stinger GT2 money. I would get the Q50 just for the dealership experience alone. Pretty sure they lease way better too if that matters.
      There actually have been a # of prospective Stinger (GT2) buyers who really wanted the Stinger, but couldn't pass up the deal (lease) they got for the Q50 RS.

      The transmission in the Q50 stinks, so only their wallet felt better.

      There was also one person who actually got offered a better lease deal for a leftover C63, but ended up going w/ a GT2.
      Last edited by CP1; 09-20-2019 at 03:10 AM.
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      09-20-2019 07:09 AM #127
      I had the old version of the JATCO 7AT in my G37. Obviously it was no ZF8, but unless you are taking your family sedan to track days on a regular basis- which nobody buying these cars is- it's fine. The H/K 8 speed shifts faster but sucks just as bad in manual mode.

      Plus I'd wager a lot of RS buyers are tinkerers, and the aftermarket for the Q50 is leaps and bounds better than that of any H/K/G product.

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      09-20-2019 08:01 AM #128
      I will never take Hyundai and Kia seriously as brands while they still pay assclowns to shill for them on Internet forums.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

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      09-20-2019 08:14 AM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      I will never take Hyundai and Kia seriously as brands while they still pay assclowns to shill for them on Internet forums.
      I think you're being a little harsh. There are employees of Nissan and Honda here who post to clarify discussions all the time.

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      09-20-2019 08:19 AM #130
      Quote Originally Posted by unhappymeal View Post
      I think you're being a little harsh. There are employees of Nissan and Honda here who post to clarify discussions all the time.
      Whose the Nissan guy? And Andy doesn’t shill for Honda, he’s open about stuff but not a propaganda machine the way CP1 is. And Andy participates all over the forum, he isn’t only here to shill in the Honda threads like CP1 is.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

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      09-20-2019 08:26 AM #131
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Whose the Nissan guy? And Andy doesn’t shill for Honda, he’s open about stuff but not a propaganda machine the way CP1 is. And Andy participates all over the forum, he isn’t only here to shill in the Honda threads like CP1 is.
      Minority5 and VQVariance. I think your distaste for H/K is biasing you here. I distinctly recall CP1 posting in the Nissan, Lexus and Subaru threads. If you look at his post history, he's also posted in a range of non-Hyundai/KIA/Genesis threads.

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      09-20-2019 08:30 AM #132
      Eh, there's a clear difference between a transparent, self-identified car company employee like Metalitubby and a paid "objective" troll like CP1.

      CP1's arguments do speak to the mentality of H/K/G though... seems Genesis is chasing "legitimacy" and respect in the context of German sedan benchmarks rather than establishing its own identity and actually addressing the needs of the market. To a degree I think this is reflective of the materialism and status obsession in South Korean culture, which is weird as somehow the frugal and austere Germans have somehow become the arbiters of status and taste in the automotive space. Hopefully I am not out of pocket for saying that

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      09-20-2019 08:31 AM #133
      Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk View Post
      Audi sold 15K A5s (2dr and 4dr) so far. Is that "selling like crazy" compared to KIA's 9K or so Stinger sales?
      around here, I see more A5 hatches than A5 coupes and A4 sedans put together.

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      09-20-2019 08:33 AM #134
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Eh, there's a clear difference between a transparent, self-identified car company employee like Metalitubby and a paid "objective" troll like CP1.

      CP1's arguments do speak to the mentality of H/K/G though... seems Genesis is chasing "legitimacy" and respect in the context of German sedan benchmarks rather than establishing its own identity and actually addressing the needs of the market. To a degree I think this is reflective of the materialism and status obsession in South Korean culture, which is weird as somehow the frugal and austere Germans have somehow become the arbiters of status and taste in the automotive space. Hopefully I am not out of pocket for saying that
      I agree that he's biased, but I would say the same of Minority5 in the Nissan/Infiniti threads. He has posted in non-H/K/G threads. As for the Germans, they're only austere on the surface. In private, rich Germans can spend with the best of them.

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      09-20-2019 09:16 AM #135
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      I will never take Hyundai and Kia seriously as brands while they still pay assclowns to shill for them on Internet forums.
      How about me Real_Stack? Am I the only EV clown here?

      Quote Originally Posted by Karl_1340 View Post
      around here, I see more A5 hatches than A5 coupes and A4 sedans put together.
      Interesting. Maybe Canadians have less stigma against the luxury hatchbacks. When I got my S3, I also looked at a S4 and S5. S5 was a gorgeous car, but it isn't really all that practical imho. Its swooped hatchback rear looked good but ate into the rear headroom and cargo room badly. Sure, it'll swallow a bulkier cargo that you just can't put in a sedan. Plus it felt slower as the hatchback design, and it was about $5-6K more expensive. Even the dealers will enthusiastically negotiate on A4, but will ask for near sticker price on A5. WTF.

      But I'll give you that A5/S5 looks so much better than ho-hum BMW 4 series GC. And even uglier 3er GT hatchback (what I had until last week).

      I looked at a G70 too. I passed on it because my 'thick' right thigh kept running into the center console during the test drive (don't fat shame me here). But G70 felt very lively and quick even for a four-banger. I imagine Stinger would be a lot better in terms of room up front since it's supposed to be a GT car, not a sports sedan.

      I can see why it makes no sense for Kia to plan a second gen Stinger when they are only selling 1,000 units a month. Kia Sorrento sells 9,500 units monthly.

      For me, the biggest handicap for Stinger sales is its hatchback configuration. Mercedes don't make them for a reason, BMW ain't gonna make 3 series GT and 6 series GT hatchbacks anymore. I thought only the American consumers perceived the hatchback as econo cars. But evidently rest of the world sees it the same way. Except Audi, of course. Nobody ever says "$70K for a Audi A7? No way!".
      Last edited by Uber Wagon; 09-20-2019 at 09:37 AM.
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      09-20-2019 10:20 AM #136
      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post
      How about me Real_Stack? Am I the only EV clown here?
      Nah, there's a bunch of ya. Hell, I'm 50% on board, I'm a TSLA fanboi



      Interesting. Maybe Canadians have less stigma against the luxury hatchbacks. When I got my S3, I also looked at a S4 and S5. S5 was a gorgeous car, but it isn't really all that practical imho. Its swooped hatchback rear looked good but ate into the rear headroom and cargo room badly. Sure, it'll swallow a bulkier cargo that you just can't put in a sedan. Plus it felt slower as the hatchback design, and it was about $5-6K more expensive. Even the dealers will enthusiastically negotiate on A4, but will ask for near sticker price on A5. WTF.

      But I'll give you that A5/S5 looks so much better than ho-hum BMW 4 series GC. And even uglier 3er GT hatchback (what I had until last week).

      I looked at a G70 too. I passed on it because my 'thick' right thigh kept running into the center console during the test drive (don't fat shame me here). But G70 felt very lively and quick even for a four-banger. I imagine Stinger would be a lot better in terms of room up front since it's supposed to be a GT car, not a sports sedan.

      I can see why it makes no sense for Kia to plan a second gen Stinger when they are only selling 1,000 units a month. Kia Sorrento sells 9,500 units monthly.

      For me, the biggest handicap for Stinger sales is its hatchback configuration. Mercedes don't make them for a reason, BMW ain't gonna make 3 series GT and 6 series GT hatchbacks anymore. I thought only the American consumers perceived the hatchback as econo cars. But evidently rest of the world sees it the same way. Except Audi, of course. Nobody ever says "$70K for a Audi A7? No way!".
      I think for a lot of TCL people, they try to be uber-practical. For a lot of the general public, they're not worried about the most practical thing, because odds are good if you are buying a $40k+ car, it's statistically unlikely to be an only car, and the odds of it being paired with an SUV are extremely high. So having a hatch isn't a big deal when you can just borrow the wife's RX or Q7 or whatever.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

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      09-20-2019 10:26 AM #137
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Nah, there's a bunch of ya. Hell, I'm 50% on board, I'm a TSLA fanboi
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      09-20-2019 10:26 AM #138
      Agreed; we just did a family road trip in the TLX and a hatch wouldn't have helped.

      That said, again, people are more than happy to pay six figures for a Model S. Mercedes has that hatchback CLS they call the AMG GT or whatever. So people will buy the right hatchback. The Stinger unfortunately is not it.

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      09-20-2019 10:29 AM #139
      Uber- you're off-base with this hatchback talk.

      Mercedes absolutely makes them and its one of their most expensive and aspirational products-
      Familiar with the AMG GT 4-door?

      How about the Panamera?

      Sportback is definitely the body style of the moment for premium "cars" (read not CUVs) from premium brands. Of course not the highest volume, but cars that are selling at good margins and improving brand equity with brand-defining design language. They add very nice variety to the lineup.

      Kia's issue is the Stinger is a close-to-premium car from an absolutely not premium brand. It's too tricky to market it as a pony car alternative and it's an exercise in futility to market it against the Germans. What are they to do? "Get this instead of the Maxima or Impala we know you don't care about?"


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      09-20-2019 10:37 AM #140
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Agreed; we just did a family road trip in the TLX and a hatch wouldn't have helped.

      That said, again, people are more than happy to pay six figures for a Model S. Mercedes has that hatchback CLS they call the AMG GT or whatever. So people will buy the right hatchback. The Stinger unfortunately is not it.
      Got it. So 'Murica loves hatches as long as it's a luxury brand. Or if it's raised 2 extra inches off the ground.

      Seriously though, if you are gonna get a hatchback, might as well get a wagon that's really a lot more practical...



      At the end of a day, $50K is a lot of money for a non-luxury brand hatchback.
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      09-20-2019 10:45 AM #141
      Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw79 View Post
      Uber- you're off-base with this hatchback talk.
      Careful now, they are called GTs or Sportsbacks or something fancy like that, but not hatchbacks.
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      09-20-2019 11:01 AM #142
      Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw79 View Post

      Kia's issue is the Stinger is a close-to-premium car from an absolutely not premium brand. It's too tricky to market it as a pony car alternative and it's an exercise in futility to market it against the Germans. What are they to do? "Get this instead of the Maxima or Impala we know you
      So basically we've all been here before with VW. No one wanted a full luxo sedan in the phaeton and only a few more wanted a luxo SUV in the Touareg. Seems like Kia is in a tricky situation. However for any brand to grow, chances must be taken. Some work and some do not. From the numbers thrown around in this thread, no one is selling a boatload of coupe/HB sedans regardless of the badge. The fact is though, this thread keeps going and giving attention to the brand that it would not have had if the Stinger did not exist. Good for kia for taking a chance and offering something outside of their standard products.


      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post
      At the end of a day, $50K is a lot of money for a non-luxury brand hatchback.
      No. At the end of the day, $50k is just a lot of money, period. Almost every brand out there has offerings that can hit $50k. This includes non-premium brands.

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      09-20-2019 11:10 AM #143
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      So basically we've all been here before with VW. No one wanted a full luxo sedan in the phaeton and only a few more wanted a luxo SUV in the Touareg. Seems like Kia is in a tricky situation. However for any brand to grow, chances must be taken. Some work and some do not. From the numbers thrown around in this thread, no one is selling a boatload of coupe/HB sedans regardless of the badge. The fact is though, this thread keeps going and giving attention to the brand that it would not have had if the Stinger did not exist. Good for kia for taking a chance and offering something outside of their standard products.
      Yup. What we have here is VW Phaeton part deux. Let me get some popcorn made before VW fanbois chime in...

      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      No. At the end of the day, $50k is just a lot of money, period. Almost every brand out there has offerings that can hit $50k. This includes non-premium brands.
      It depends. $50K is a lot of money to spend on a car-it's a lot for me as well. But everybody does it nowadays. You can easily get a $55K BMW 430i GC for $400-ish a month with no money down on a lease. Or you can YOLO it and finance it for 84 months. Choose your poison.
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      09-20-2019 11:51 AM #144
      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post
      It depends. $50K is a lot of money to spend on a car-it's a lot for me as well. But everybody does it nowadays. You can easily get a $55K BMW 430i GC for $400-ish a month with no money down on a lease. Or you can YOLO it and finance it for 84 months. Choose your poison.
      No, not everybody.

      If someone is spending $50k+ on a vehicle, it's coming from a luxury brand, pick-up, or larger SUV. Only idiots buy expensive s**t from cheap brands.
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      09-20-2019 11:58 AM #145
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      Only idiots buy expensive s**t from cheap brands.
      Well, it's your money. Spend it as you see fit. $60K for a Honda Civic Type-R though...

      Last edited by Uber Wagon; 09-20-2019 at 12:03 PM.
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      09-20-2019 12:02 PM #146
      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post
      Well, it's your money. Spend it as you see fit. $60K for a Honda Civic Type-R though...


      No different than the $50k Lancers that were sold when they first dropped. Gran Turismo markup s**t. There were idiots then, there are idiots now.
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      09-20-2019 12:04 PM #147
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      No different than the $50k Lancers that were sold when they first dropped. Gran Turismo markup s**t. There were idiots then, there are idiots now.
      It's probably some poor chap from TCL. Definitely not from TFL.
      Last edited by Uber Wagon; 09-20-2019 at 12:07 PM.
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      09-20-2019 12:41 PM #148
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      No, not everybody.

      If someone is spending $50k+ on a vehicle, it's coming from a luxury brand, pick-up, or larger SUV. Only idiots buy expensive s**t from cheap brands.
      What do you think Chevy is? Buying a truck or big SUV for 50k is no different than buying a 50k kia car. And personally, I'd rather spend that money on the kia than the chevy.

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      09-20-2019 12:57 PM #149
      Quote Originally Posted by unhappymeal View Post
      It's so liberating not caring what people think of your car and just driving whatever suits you. As for the Stinger, it was doomed the second it had a KIA badge. The Hyundai dealership network is inconsistent at best. Putting it under the same tent as dealerships that try to hide your license and keys from you or want to run your credit before letting you test drive it was a death sentence.
      This. A neat car that is crippled by a terrible dealer network. The purchase experience and service experience are important for people not desperate to get approved for a cheap car. It's bad enough to take a Corvette to your normal GM dealer, but to buy a Stinger and then deal with a dealer network that is awful, and typically is the definition of tacky and sleazy - makes it untenable. The Kia dealer around me has ads with a dude screaming "I wanna seeya in a Kia!" Ya, no thanks. At least my local Subie dealers have a cool outdoory vibe to them and with an established performance history, you often see WRX/STi etc around. Not that with Kia.

      Then there is the behind the scenes issues - average buyers want a fancier badge, enthusiasts worry if the dealer techs will have any knowledge working on a Stinger.

      Myself, i didn't consider the Stinger because I don't have much faith in H/K making dynamically great cars, so i wanted to see the Stinger mature a bit before giving it consideration. It is handsome, and big in a good and useful way. Shame if it goes nowhere.

      General rant:

      Shame what we enthusiasts do. We loudly complain about no light affordable sports cars - the twins come and we barely buy them. Then a big RWD GT type sedan comes, and we barely buy it while gnashing our teeth over the cancellation of cars like the Chevy SS. Yes there are flaws in these cars which explains soft sales...but you gotta think companies like H/K at some point might just wash their hands of performance cars if the Genesis Coupe, and now the Stinger end up not being successes. At least I hope the N series Veloster and others (assuming more come) are enough successes, or deemed important enough segments, for them to stay in.

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      09-20-2019 01:00 PM #150
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      No, not everybody.

      If someone is spending $50k+ on a vehicle, it's coming from a luxury brand, pick-up, or larger SUV. Only idiots buy expensive s**t from cheap brands.
      Have you heard of ...
      Ford GT
      Honda NSX (outside of USA/Canada)
      Chevrolet Corvette
      Ford Mustang (high trim)
      Chevrolet Camaro (high trim)
      Nissan GTR
      Toyota Supra
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