Garage: 2009 Mazda MX-5 Miata | 2016 JKU Backcountry
Mazda Sales Mangler | Dat Forum, Doe. | Instagram: @zill0n
Had one for a week as a press car just driving around town and hated it. Drives like a pig around town.
Had one as a rental on Arizona freeways a few years back and hated it. Just not a good freeway cruiser (if you like going fast in the left lane).
The seating position sucks.
I'd only consider one if I was going off road a lot and resale value and rugged durability was top concern. Or if you need to tow something.
Otherwise just about any CUV will be better. RAV4, Passport, etc.
I like 4runners as well, but I always fail to justify purchasing one. I went to test drive it once and both units I drove had a steering wheel shake at 65 mph, brand new cars from the lot. I've done some internet reading after that and it seems to be hit or miss to find a 4R without steering wheel shake at highway speeds. Somehow Toyota gets a pass for those things...
No wrong answers here -- it heavily depends on what one likes and wants in a vehicle. Objectively, the RAV4 is the better car around town and on the highways, but driving my GF's '16 RAV4 XLE is pretty meh to me. I'd rather be driving my 4R (aside from the gas mileage, of course).
But then again, I've always prefer the way BOF SUVs and drucks drove; it's what I've driven for much of my driving life.
I've put about 16K miles on my 2019 Cherokee Trailhawk, and despite some abuse it has performed flawlessly. Handles well enough on mountain roads, and better than any similarly sized SUV/CUV off road. I'm getting about 24-25mpg and it could do with better brakes (they aren't bad brakes, but they could be better).
Just curious - given the fact you drive a PRO - do you think you'd be swayed a bit differently about the on-road manners if your 4Runner had KDSS?
I've followed a few of your posts - and yep there is some appeal to the Subaru option. Reviews of the new turbo seem pretty good - and a lot of reviewers note how quiet it is.
Just throw a 2" inch hitch and a roof box on it and it gets you a lot of space, functionality, moderate off road capability, and relative fuel economy.
Having the headgasket in my forester redone though (and a few other weird issues) - i'm not 100% sold on plunking down more $$ in their camp.
I have a feeling that the OP and his wife are having this conversation right now:
OP: Hey, try this sushi, itís the best sushi Iíve ever had
Wife: I donít like sushi, no thanks
OP: But itís such great sushi! And itís good for you!
OPís Buddies: Itís the BEST sushi! And itís GREAT for you!
Wife: Does it taste like sushi?
OP: Hell yeah! Good ol raw fish! The best sushi Iíve ever eaten, itís so sushi-ful.
OPís buddies: The RAWEST! THE MOST SUSHI-FUL
Wife: If it tastes like sushi I donít want it
OP: Just try it, youíll love it!
Wife: Iíve had sushi before, I donít like it.
OP and Buddies: JUST TRY IT!
Wife: okay fine. *eats sushi* This is gross.
Weird timing on this thread...
So my wife has a 2017 Rogue that she absolutely despises. Her commute is about 2 miles a day and she complains about how much she hates her car now. She has always lusted after a 4Runner so just yesterday I made a deal with a dealer out in PA and bought her a new 2020 4Runner SR5 Premium. A few months back we test drove a base 2019 Off Road and she really liked it (it did not have KDSS) and loved the way it drove but couldn't get over that it was a key start, the radio was old and that it had basically no tech at all in it. So I waited until the 2020s came out as they have a bunch of new features that she will really enjoy. I'm giving it to her on Friday, she has no idea.
I think the reason she hated her rogue so much was when I was away on a business trip for 2 weeks last year, she only drove my car. I have a 2018 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk so she kept comparing how much more she liked the GC than her Rogue which only made her hate her car more. Obviously two very different vehicles.
I would say if you are looking for comfort and loaded up with tech, lease a GC. Otherwise, 4runner gets my vote!
I love the look and the capability of the 4Runner but it seems Toyota has neglected anything in the way of a driving dynamics update in favor of banking on the reputation. It's a well earned reputation, but still - they sorta drive like a 12 year old new car. The Outback on the other hand, is very quiet and smooth. It is by no means a powerful car, but it will easily cruise at 75 or 80 and return very good fuel mileage. We love the versatility, too... I have a couple of Yakima Frontloader bike carriers which attache to the factory cross bars... which also fold out of the way when not in use. Very handy!
There's a ton of space. My wife and I tend to pack heavy when we take car trips and it swallows our gear and the doggo's bed with ease. We're both tall, and I found it very comfortable on our recent 9+ hour drive to northern Minnesota a few months back.
You might read people spewing vitriol about the CVT, but even I as a Devout Disciple of The Church of The Holy Manual Gearbox have come to appreciate its positive attributes. The infotainment (I hate that word) works really well and switches seamlessly between her apple and my android devices. For the kinds of roads you'll encounter, the Outback is more than capable. A great set of tires and some skid plates is all you need to tackle some rockier terrain. All in all, it's a wonderful car and worth checking out. Lastly, for the price of a only-decently-equipped 4 Runner, you can get a high-spec Outback.
So I have a small update.
My wife likes the Crosstrek and seems like she made her choice. I did throw the idea of an Outback but she definitely doesn't want it since it's as long and wide as a 4Runner. We did brainstorm the CR-V and even the Santa Fe, but the Crosstrek has the most ground clearance.
Is the Crosstrek reliable? I would love to go with the 6 speed, but she doesn't drive manual, so CVT it is. How is that CVT? I heard it's better.
I wasn't too fond of CVTs because we have a Sentra at my job and it's just awful. My buddy has a new Accord and the CVT is phenomenal so my opinion on CVTs has improved.
2016 GTI S 6MT 2door
Obviously not the guy you had quoted, but I have a 4Runner with KDSS.
When I got the 4Runner, I was toying between a Wrangler, a truck, and the 4Runner. Having just gotten out of a WRX that blew it's motor with 9700 miles on it, I was heavily influenced by reliability. I also wasn't sure if I'd need a truck bed. (I'm currently trailer shopping, and still continually entertaining a truck purchase that'll probably never happen.)
I first test drove a standard 4Runner Trail (Off Road I think now), and was quite put off by how bad the handling seemed. Felt floaty and top-heavy, with a lot of faint wobble. I then test drove a KDSS equipped one, and ordered mine that day.
To me, it is VERY dramatic.
The only negative I have, is that on washboard dirt road you really get banged around a lot more since it stiffens up at speed. But, considering 90% of my miles are on the highway, I think it's a totally great tradeoff.
Take some extra time sitting in the Crosstrek, though... I hear the Impreza seats are not as comfortable as the Outback seats on longer drives. My wife had one as a loaner once and could barely get in and out of it (she's 6'3") without hitting her head, and the seats felt too short for our legs. Just something to consider.
Note, while the Grand Cherokee will compete in the mid-size segment, Jeep will target buyers flush with cash with a full-size offering reviving the Wagoneer nameplate. The new Wagoneer, plus an extra-plush Grand Wagoneer, will be based on the body-on-frame platform shared with the latest Ram full-size pickup trucks. The Wagoneer duo will be built at the underutilized Warren Truck Assembly plant just north of Detroit, starting sometime before 2022.
No it is the 2021 Grand Cherokee. The Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer are supposed to be BOF like a Tahoe/Suburban respectively, and have not been testing yet. The other car you guys are showing is the chinese only Grand Commander which is not sold here most likely due to the anemic 2.0t engine it has. If you look closely, the grand commander has a curved passenger wiper, and the spy photos show a straight passenger wiper. They are different.
Last edited by ice4life; 10-08-2019 at 04:25 PM.
I'm actually idly shopping Outback XTs while visiting a buddy here in Spokane. I could slap a 2" hitch on it and have a much, MUCH nicer roadtrip home with all the gear and bikes I have with me. Hoping to test drive one this week. My buddy has a Crosstrek with Sparco wheels and baby BFG K02s on it and I do love their car. It's a 6MT and it seems plenty powerful in most everyday situations while being small and nimble like my old GTIs with much of the DGAF attitude of an SUV.