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    Thread: 4Runner or .......... ??? Help me TCL!

    1. 10-07-2019 04:44 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by vwpiloto View Post
      As for squirrelly under braking, yes, by all means that's true. I'm hoping a set of 5100s or perhaps the Eibach kit will reduce that nose dive and give it overall some more stability.
      Iím probably going to have a 5160, 6112 set installed. They are essentially the same as last generation TRD Pro and only a little more than the 5100. Here is a good article on the system.

      https://expeditionportal.com/did-bil...ension-system/

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    3. Member Zillon's Avatar
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      10-07-2019 05:15 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      My $0.02; the 4Runner is an odd mix of very capable and Toyota boring. It's not terrible on highways, etc, like the Wrangler is, but it's good enough to be competent and bad enough to be meh. The Wrangler is almost laughably bad, to the point where it's entertaining in its novelty. Driving the Wrangler, you know you're driving the Wrangler, driving the 4Runner, it's like you are just driving any number of SUVs from 10-20 years ago. Also, with the Wrangler, you have the novelty of the removable top and doors, and again, it's just so different that it's fun.

      I love the idea of the 4Runner, to the point where I've been "I'm going to buy one" at least 3 times now. But everytime I actually drive it, it's just not special enough to be truly interesting, and the idea of "Well it's going to last forever" just doesn't excite me. Like the Taco, I'd love to have owned a 4Runner for the last 10 years and now have a funky old one I've put a zillion miles on, but the idea of buying one and driving it for the next 10 years has zero excitement for me.

      And yeah, I'm the guy who needs the capability it offers about 10 times a year.
      Pretty accurate.

      I love my Jeep, but I'm getting real fookin' tired of not having carpet in it because the roof keeps leaking.

      4Runner life beckons.

    4. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      10-07-2019 05:19 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Porkchopexpress View Post
      Iím probably going to have a 5160, 6112 set installed. They are essentially the same as last generation TRD Pro and only a little more than the 5100. Here is a good article on the system.

      https://expeditionportal.com/did-bil...ension-system/
      Helpful link!

    5. Member 66Satellite's Avatar
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      10-07-2019 05:26 PM #54
      Had one for a week as a press car just driving around town and hated it. Drives like a pig around town.

      Had one as a rental on Arizona freeways a few years back and hated it. Just not a good freeway cruiser (if you like going fast in the left lane).

      The seating position sucks.

      I'd only consider one if I was going off road a lot and resale value and rugged durability was top concern. Or if you need to tow something.

      Otherwise just about any CUV will be better. RAV4, Passport, etc.
      Last edited by 66Satellite; 10-07-2019 at 05:28 PM.

    6. Member child_in_time's Avatar
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      10-07-2019 07:10 PM #55
      I like 4runners as well, but I always fail to justify purchasing one. I went to test drive it once and both units I drove had a steering wheel shake at 65 mph, brand new cars from the lot. I've done some internet reading after that and it seems to be hit or miss to find a 4R without steering wheel shake at highway speeds. Somehow Toyota gets a pass for those things...

    7. Member AHTOXA's Avatar
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      10-07-2019 09:45 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by 66Satellite View Post
      Had one for a week as a press car just driving around town and hated it. Drives like a pig around town.

      Had one as a rental on Arizona freeways a few years back and hated it. Just not a good freeway cruiser (if you like going fast in the left lane).

      The seating position sucks.

      I'd only consider one if I was going off road a lot and resale value and rugged durability was top concern. Or if you need to tow something.

      Otherwise just about any CUV will be better. RAV4, Passport, etc.
      Yeah, the 4R isn't great around town in terms of mileage and highway ride isn't terrible but vague on-center and can require somewhat frequent steering correction, especially when it's windy. But then again, it's not horrible at those either while offering a lot of capability when it comes to dirt.

      No wrong answers here -- it heavily depends on what one likes and wants in a vehicle. Objectively, the RAV4 is the better car around town and on the highways, but driving my GF's '16 RAV4 XLE is pretty meh to me. I'd rather be driving my 4R (aside from the gas mileage, of course).

      But then again, I've always prefer the way BOF SUVs and drucks drove; it's what I've driven for much of my driving life.

    8. Member SLVRon's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 12:09 AM #57
      I've put about 16K miles on my 2019 Cherokee Trailhawk, and despite some abuse it has performed flawlessly. Handles well enough on mountain roads, and better than any similarly sized SUV/CUV off road. I'm getting about 24-25mpg and it could do with better brakes (they aren't bad brakes, but they could be better).


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      10-08-2019 03:03 AM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by child_in_time View Post
      I like 4runners as well, but I always fail to justify purchasing one. I went to test drive it once and both units I drove had a steering wheel shake at 65 mph, brand new cars from the lot. I've done some internet reading after that and it seems to be hit or miss to find a 4R without steering wheel shake at highway speeds. Somehow Toyota gets a pass for those things...
      Because of the flailing hands of a 94 Celica owner lol


    10. Member mouseOfMars's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 07:23 AM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by johntesi View Post
      I love my 4Runner and have put 60k miles on it in just under 2 years, but I also lust after Crosstreks and Outbacks almost every day. The on-road manners and fuel economy leave a lot to be desired, but the 4Runner is the most solid and capable vehicle I've ever owned. Just depends on your actual priorities vs. daydream priorities.
      @johntesi:

      Just curious - given the fact you drive a PRO - do you think you'd be swayed a bit differently about the on-road manners if your 4Runner had KDSS?

      I've followed a few of your posts - and yep there is some appeal to the Subaru option. Reviews of the new turbo seem pretty good - and a lot of reviewers note how quiet it is.
      Just throw a 2" inch hitch and a roof box on it and it gets you a lot of space, functionality, moderate off road capability, and relative fuel economy.

      Having the headgasket in my forester redone though (and a few other weird issues) - i'm not 100% sold on plunking down more $$ in their camp.

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      10-08-2019 08:12 AM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by AHTOXA View Post
      But then again, I've always prefer the way BOF SUVs and drucks drove; it's what I've driven for much of my driving life.
      And I think this is the main issue why thereís such disagreement here. Some people LIKE driving trucks, and others donít.

      I have a feeling that the OP and his wife are having this conversation right now:

      OP: Hey, try this sushi, itís the best sushi Iíve ever had

      Wife: I donít like sushi, no thanks

      OP: But itís such great sushi! And itís good for you!

      OPís Buddies: Itís the BEST sushi! And itís GREAT for you!

      Wife: Does it taste like sushi?

      OP: Hell yeah! Good ol raw fish! The best sushi Iíve ever eaten, itís so sushi-ful.

      OPís buddies: The RAWEST! THE MOST SUSHI-FUL

      Wife: If it tastes like sushi I donít want it

      OP: Just try it, youíll love it!

      Wife: Iíve had sushi before, I donít like it.

      OP and Buddies: JUST TRY IT!

      Wife: okay fine. *eats sushi* This is gross.

    12. Member Smooremin's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 09:52 AM #61
      Step up and get a G Wagon

      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      Asking OT for relationship advice makes about as much sense as asking TCL what car to buy.
      Quote Originally Posted by ChillOutPossum View Post
      About 5 oclock I realized I needed to go to Costco for some white people stuff.

    13. Member TooOldForThis's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 09:55 AM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Smooremin View Post
      Step up and get a G Wagon

      Or a Defender 110

      Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
      Just like that!

    14. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 09:58 AM #63
      Wrong...ler



      Untitled by Chris Stack, on Flickr
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    15. Member ant the ninja's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 10:05 AM #64
      Weird timing on this thread...

      So my wife has a 2017 Rogue that she absolutely despises. Her commute is about 2 miles a day and she complains about how much she hates her car now. She has always lusted after a 4Runner so just yesterday I made a deal with a dealer out in PA and bought her a new 2020 4Runner SR5 Premium. A few months back we test drove a base 2019 Off Road and she really liked it (it did not have KDSS) and loved the way it drove but couldn't get over that it was a key start, the radio was old and that it had basically no tech at all in it. So I waited until the 2020s came out as they have a bunch of new features that she will really enjoy. I'm giving it to her on Friday, she has no idea.

      I think the reason she hated her rogue so much was when I was away on a business trip for 2 weeks last year, she only drove my car. I have a 2018 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk so she kept comparing how much more she liked the GC than her Rogue which only made her hate her car more. Obviously two very different vehicles.

      I would say if you are looking for comfort and loaded up with tech, lease a GC. Otherwise, 4runner gets my vote!

    16. Member geofftii2002's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 10:10 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by bnkrpt311 View Post
      You sound like a perfect Outback candidate. The Outback 2.5 is a second or two slower than the 4Runner to 60 so you could get into an Outback XT if you want. If you wanted to go used a 3.6 equipped Outback would be great as well.

      My wife and I love our 2017 Outback 2.5 Premium and we came from a 2014 4Runner SR5 Premium. We throw our bikes and roof box on top, two kids in car seats in the back, and the dogs in the cargo area at times and have no issues.

      Lift kits, skid plates, and all kinds of other off road goodies are available as well and are quite popular.
      Agreed! 2018 Outback 2.5 owners here!

      I love the look and the capability of the 4Runner but it seems Toyota has neglected anything in the way of a driving dynamics update in favor of banking on the reputation. It's a well earned reputation, but still - they sorta drive like a 12 year old new car. The Outback on the other hand, is very quiet and smooth. It is by no means a powerful car, but it will easily cruise at 75 or 80 and return very good fuel mileage. We love the versatility, too... I have a couple of Yakima Frontloader bike carriers which attache to the factory cross bars... which also fold out of the way when not in use. Very handy!

      There's a ton of space. My wife and I tend to pack heavy when we take car trips and it swallows our gear and the doggo's bed with ease. We're both tall, and I found it very comfortable on our recent 9+ hour drive to northern Minnesota a few months back.

      You might read people spewing vitriol about the CVT, but even I as a Devout Disciple of The Church of The Holy Manual Gearbox have come to appreciate its positive attributes. The infotainment (I hate that word) works really well and switches seamlessly between her apple and my android devices. For the kinds of roads you'll encounter, the Outback is more than capable. A great set of tires and some skid plates is all you need to tackle some rockier terrain. All in all, it's a wonderful car and worth checking out. Lastly, for the price of a only-decently-equipped 4 Runner, you can get a high-spec Outback.
      I spend my days in a 70,000 sq ft wonderland www.hymanltd.com

    17. Member Engineer90's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 11:43 AM #66
      So I have a small update.

      My wife likes the Crosstrek and seems like she made her choice. I did throw the idea of an Outback but she definitely doesn't want it since it's as long and wide as a 4Runner. We did brainstorm the CR-V and even the Santa Fe, but the Crosstrek has the most ground clearance.

      Is the Crosstrek reliable? I would love to go with the 6 speed, but she doesn't drive manual, so CVT it is. How is that CVT? I heard it's better.

      I wasn't too fond of CVTs because we have a Sentra at my job and it's just awful. My buddy has a new Accord and the CVT is phenomenal so my opinion on CVTs has improved.
      2016 GTI S 6MT 2door

    18. Member kryptonik's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 11:50 AM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by mouseOfMars View Post

      Just curious - given the fact you drive a PRO - do you think you'd be swayed a bit differently about the on-road manners if your 4Runner had KDSS?

      Obviously not the guy you had quoted, but I have a 4Runner with KDSS.

      When I got the 4Runner, I was toying between a Wrangler, a truck, and the 4Runner. Having just gotten out of a WRX that blew it's motor with 9700 miles on it, I was heavily influenced by reliability. I also wasn't sure if I'd need a truck bed. (I'm currently trailer shopping, and still continually entertaining a truck purchase that'll probably never happen.)

      I first test drove a standard 4Runner Trail (Off Road I think now), and was quite put off by how bad the handling seemed. Felt floaty and top-heavy, with a lot of faint wobble. I then test drove a KDSS equipped one, and ordered mine that day.

      To me, it is VERY dramatic.

      The only negative I have, is that on washboard dirt road you really get banged around a lot more since it stiffens up at speed. But, considering 90% of my miles are on the highway, I think it's a totally great tradeoff.

    19. Member geofftii2002's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 12:17 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by Engineer90 View Post
      So I have a small update.

      My wife likes the Crosstrek and seems like she made her choice. I did throw the idea of an Outback but she definitely doesn't want it since it's as long and wide as a 4Runner. We did brainstorm the CR-V and even the Santa Fe, but the Crosstrek has the most ground clearance.

      Is the Crosstrek reliable? I would love to go with the 6 speed, but she doesn't drive manual, so CVT it is. How is that CVT? I heard it's better.

      I wasn't too fond of CVTs because we have a Sentra at my job and it's just awful. My buddy has a new Accord and the CVT is phenomenal so my opinion on CVTs has improved.
      The Nissan CVT is a dreadful heap and shouldn't be used as a benchmark for all other CVTs. The Subaru unit is pretty good and seems well matched to the engines. It certainly isn't the enthusiast's choice, but it's good, quiet, and it returns good mileage.

      Take some extra time sitting in the Crosstrek, though... I hear the Impreza seats are not as comfortable as the Outback seats on longer drives. My wife had one as a loaner once and could barely get in and out of it (she's 6'3") without hitting her head, and the seats felt too short for our legs. Just something to consider.
      I spend my days in a 70,000 sq ft wonderland www.hymanltd.com

    20. Senior Member danny_16v's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 01:54 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by kryptonik View Post
      Obviously not the guy you had quoted, but I have a 4Runner with KDSS.

      When I got the 4Runner, I was toying between a Wrangler, a truck, and the 4Runner. Having just gotten out of a WRX that blew it's motor with 9700 miles on it, I was heavily influenced by reliability. I also wasn't sure if I'd need a truck bed. (I'm currently trailer shopping, and still continually entertaining a truck purchase that'll probably never happen.)

      I first test drove a standard 4Runner Trail (Off Road I think now), and was quite put off by how bad the handling seemed. Felt floaty and top-heavy, with a lot of faint wobble. I then test drove a KDSS equipped one, and ordered mine that day.

      To me, it is VERY dramatic.

      The only negative I have, is that on washboard dirt road you really get banged around a lot more since it stiffens up at speed. But, considering 90% of my miles are on the highway, I think it's a totally great tradeoff.
      I really think all the 4Runner stock shocks suck except for TRD Pro. They're too soft and floaty.
      GLi : M3 : CX5
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    21. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 01:57 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Smooremin View Post


      Untitled by smooremin, on Flickr

      Love the indigo blue interior and BluRay players. Both rare, so nice grab! I had a 2017 Overland and it was a great truck. OP, in 2021, it will become a three row CUV, so grab it while you can!


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      10-08-2019 02:20 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      Love the indigo blue interior and BluRay players. Both rare, so nice grab! I had a 2017 Overland and it was a great truck. OP, in 2021, it will become a three row CUV, so grab it while you can!
      Pretty sure that's the (Grand?) Wagoneer, not the GC.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

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      10-08-2019 04:10 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Pretty sure that's the (Grand?) Wagoneer, not the GC.
      Hopefully it looks better than the China-only Jeep Grand Commander.

      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...

    24. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 04:14 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Pretty sure that's the (Grand?) Wagoneer, not the GC.



      Note, while the Grand Cherokee will compete in the mid-size segment, Jeep will target buyers flush with cash with a full-size offering reviving the Wagoneer nameplate. The new Wagoneer, plus an extra-plush Grand Wagoneer, will be based on the body-on-frame platform shared with the latest Ram full-size pickup trucks. The Wagoneer duo will be built at the underutilized Warren Truck Assembly plant just north of Detroit, starting sometime before 2022.

      https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...okee-spy-shots


      No it is the 2021 Grand Cherokee. The Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer are supposed to be BOF like a Tahoe/Suburban respectively, and have not been testing yet. The other car you guys are showing is the chinese only Grand Commander which is not sold here most likely due to the anemic 2.0t engine it has. If you look closely, the grand commander has a curved passenger wiper, and the spy photos show a straight passenger wiper. They are different.



      Grand Commander:
      Last edited by ice4life; 10-08-2019 at 04:25 PM.

    25. Member titleist1976's Avatar
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      10-08-2019 04:44 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by Engineer90 View Post
      So I have a small update.

      My wife likes the Crosstrek and seems like she made her choice. I did throw the idea of an Outback but she definitely doesn't want it since it's as long and wide as a 4Runner. We did brainstorm the CR-V and even the Santa Fe, but the Crosstrek has the most ground clearance.
      Can you fit all of your crap/gear into a Crosstrek? I was never a fan of our big ass Pilot, but man, it makes easy work of hauling junk around.

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      10-08-2019 04:55 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by mouseOfMars View Post
      @johntesi:

      Just curious - given the fact you drive a PRO - do you think you'd be swayed a bit differently about the on-road manners if your 4Runner had KDSS?

      I've followed a few of your posts - and yep there is some appeal to the Subaru option. Reviews of the new turbo seem pretty good - and a lot of reviewers note how quiet it is.
      Just throw a 2" inch hitch and a roof box on it and it gets you a lot of space, functionality, moderate off road capability, and relative fuel economy.

      Having the headgasket in my forester redone though (and a few other weird issues) - i'm not 100% sold on plunking down more $$ in their camp.
      Great question. I've only driven a GX460 with KDSS, so there are other factors at play like weight and tires. I'd say it makes the vehicle a bit less "tippy" in turning maneuvers (which is definitely DRAMATIC in my 4R), but that's it. It doesn't change the wind noise on the highway, pluckish but unrefined V6, or the overall solid-but-very-dated vibe of the 4Runner. I'm working on being more honest with myself in every aspect of life, and even though I wheel my 4Runner more than probably 99% of the people who drive them, I also know I could do 90% of the same stuff in an Outback while enjoying all the long drives to get there a million times more. Quiet, power, and fuel economy are three of my largest criteria moving forward in car purchases. The 4Runner fails all of them pretty badly even though it's otherwise perhaps the most solid and reliable vehicle I've ever owned.

      I'm actually idly shopping Outback XTs while visiting a buddy here in Spokane. I could slap a 2" hitch on it and have a much, MUCH nicer roadtrip home with all the gear and bikes I have with me. Hoping to test drive one this week. My buddy has a Crosstrek with Sparco wheels and baby BFG K02s on it and I do love their car. It's a 6MT and it seems plenty powerful in most everyday situations while being small and nimble like my old GTIs with much of the DGAF attitude of an SUV.

      Quote Originally Posted by Engineer90 View Post
      So I have a small update.

      My wife likes the Crosstrek and seems like she made her choice. I did throw the idea of an Outback but she definitely doesn't want it since it's as long and wide as a 4Runner. We did brainstorm the CR-V and even the Santa Fe, but the Crosstrek has the most ground clearance.

      Is the Crosstrek reliable? I would love to go with the 6 speed, but she doesn't drive manual, so CVT it is. How is that CVT? I heard it's better.

      I wasn't too fond of CVTs because we have a Sentra at my job and it's just awful. My buddy has a new Accord and the CVT is phenomenal so my opinion on CVTs has improved.
      See the above statement. I love the Crosstrek. Honestly, I still consider them all the time. My buddy's is just so, so good at being a car while having a lot more character and capability than most comparable vehicles. It's far more interesting than the Corollas of the world while being equally set-and-forget. The CVT isn't bad, either.

      Quote Originally Posted by danny_16v View Post
      I really think all the 4Runner stock shocks suck except for TRD Pro. They're too soft and floaty.
      Agreed. And mine has great body control for what it is, but it still gets sketchy on lots of mountain roads even without driving remotely aggressively.

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