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    Thread: 2.5 Tiguan. AWD wiring

    1. Semi-n00b
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      2009 VW Tigaun Highline
      10-09-2019 07:49 AM #1
      Hi guys. Recently I swapped a 2.5 into my wife's 4 motion Tiguan I've worked out most the bugs. And now I'm looking for some help with the haldex wiring. as far as I know. The haldex is connected to the abs. I'm looking for pinouts of the haldex and abs for an 09 tiguan. Or track diagrams. I have to put a 2.5 abs module in to code properly but I don't know if the car uses general pinouts to control the haldex or if the Tiguan abs is specific to AWD. There are no AWD 2.5 that I can find so I need to find another route. Thanks in advance guys.

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    3. Member
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      10-09-2019 02:39 PM #2
      The wiring for the rear diff only has powertrain CAN (what the engine, transmission and brakes are on), power and a wire to the parking brake control (I''m sure about the power and CAN, not 100% off the top of my head on what the last signal is, but I should know shortly as I am converting my FWD '09 to 4motion.) So, it is not a hardware issue, but a software one.

      It is hard to say diff will get all the CAN messages that it needs from the 2.5L ECU and ABS. My guess is that you will need to retain the ABS from the Tiguan. I think that it is a try it and see unless you have some in at VW engineering. You are in unsailed waters there.

    4. Semi-n00b
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      10-09-2019 08:31 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Qmulus View Post
      The wiring for the rear diff only has powertrain CAN (what the engine, transmission and brakes are on), power and a wire to the parking brake control (I''m sure about the power and CAN, not 100% off the top of my head on what the last signal is, but I should know shortly as I am converting my FWD '09 to 4motion.) So, it is not a hardware issue, but a software one.

      It is hard to say diff will get all the CAN messages that it needs from the 2.5L ECU and ABS. My guess is that you will need to retain the ABS from the Tiguan. I think that it is a try it and see unless you have some in at VW engineering. You are in unsailed waters there.
      That's the thing. I need a 2.5 abs to code it to my ECM. It is a bit difficult as I don't know anyone that has undertaken this. On my track diagrams it shows 4 wires going from the AWD. One power. One ground. A can hi and a can low. I'll have a chat with VW and see if they can help. I also have the 09 wiring schematics if you need any!

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    6. Member
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      10-09-2019 11:43 PM #4
      My guess is that something is not going to be happy with this combination of components as they weren't designed to be used together. What faults are you getting now and/or what isn't working as it should?

    7. Semi-n00b
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      10-10-2019 01:02 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Qmulus View Post
      My guess is that something is not going to be happy with this combination of components as they weren't designed to be used together. What faults are you getting now and/or what isn't working as it should?
      The only module that isn't working is the abs. Everything else checks out. I have codes for the Sai. But I never installed it and will have a tune eventually. That will get rid of that. I have a haldex clutch pump error too. If I could figure out how to post my auto scan I can do that haha

    8. Member nycdub2's Avatar
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      10-10-2019 02:21 PM #6
      What car is the ABS from? You are going to have issues as that abs most likely will not support the EPB and no 2.5 supplied model had 4motion or EPB.
      Current: R36 4Motion Wagon, MK6 Jetta SEL, 5N2 Tiguan SEL 4Motion

      Past: MK2 GTI 16v, MK4 GTI VR6, MK4 Jetta, B3 Passat GLX Wagon VR6, B3 Passat GLX Sedan VR6, B3 Passat GL Wagon 16v, B3 Passat GL Sedan 16v

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      10-10-2019 02:42 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by nycdub2 View Post
      What car is the ABS from? You are going to have issues as that abs most likely will not support the EPB and no 2.5 supplied model had 4motion or EPB.
      Were any other vehicles offered with the 2.5 / 4Mo combo? How about ROW?

      Alternatively, how much can be recoded inside an ABS module to adjust what it can communicate with? (I'm thinking in terms of immo delete for swaps w/o cluster use.)

    10. Member nycdub2's Avatar
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      10-10-2019 03:27 PM #8
      Even ROW and other VW brands like SEAT & Skoda did not offer 2.5 4motion.

      The Tiguan ABS is basically wiring & software shared with the Passat B6/Euro B7/CC.

      ABS doesn’t communicate with immo in cluster or CCM.
      Current: R36 4Motion Wagon, MK6 Jetta SEL, 5N2 Tiguan SEL 4Motion

      Past: MK2 GTI 16v, MK4 GTI VR6, MK4 Jetta, B3 Passat GLX Wagon VR6, B3 Passat GLX Sedan VR6, B3 Passat GL Wagon 16v, B3 Passat GL Sedan 16v

    11. Semi-n00b
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      10-10-2019 08:08 PM #9
      So looking at track diagrams it looks like the AWD module communicates through canbus. According to Geoffzie post about getting proper working abs. He had to switch to a mk5 canbus (he went from passat to 2.5 aka 3C0 canbus)and abs to have it work properly. I did a little digging and started to compare canbus numbers. 1K0 907 530 V4 is the number for the Tiguan. A mk5 is identical except instead of V4 it's V2.( I assume different versions?) I know this is speculation. But because they are so close. I wonder if my can could recognize a mk5 abs. My abs is the only thing stopping AWD from working.

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      10-11-2019 09:23 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by nycdub2 View Post
      ABS doesn’t communicate with immo in cluster or CCM.
      This isn't my point. My point is that it's all software and with the proper decoding tools, anything can be rewritten.

      The other two points of inquiry were things I'm unaware of among the entire VAG family of automobiles. Perhaps a Skoda has a 2.5/DSG combo somewhere.

      More to the point, if the (2.5L) ECU isn't accepting the (Tiguan) ABS module, what is required to recode that ECU in order to open up the acceptable range of inputs? They're just signals to encode / decode.

      Alternatively - is there a way to bypass / disable ABS? It's unnecessary for people who aren't driving hypercars and know what they're doing. Especially with a proper transmission.

    13. Member nycdub2's Avatar
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      10-12-2019 01:47 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Zm7861 View Post
      So looking at track diagrams it looks like the AWD module communicates through canbus. According to Geoffzie post about getting proper working abs. He had to switch to a mk5 canbus (he went from passat to 2.5 aka 3C0 canbus)and abs to have it work properly. I did a little digging and started to compare canbus numbers. 1K0 907 530 V4 is the number for the Tiguan. A mk5 is identical except instead of V4 it's V2.( I assume different versions?) I know this is speculation. But because they are so close. I wonder if my can could recognize a mk5 abs. My abs is the only thing stopping AWD from working.
      Geoffzie did great work but he cancelled components out which means things are not working as factory or as they should but that works for him as he stated. In his case he didn’t understand that B6/Euro B7/CC have the immo in CCM not cluster which with a more up to date Gateway can select if immo is in CCM or not. Also since he coded out the EPB module, how is going to do rear brake pad replacement and rear brake adjustment which he didn’t consider. He permanently wanted to attach a transponder chip to cancel immo issue with cluster but that also means anyone can start the car with any Passat or CC key. There are other little things he didn’t know about B6’s that would have better helped him with his swap.

      There is NO MK5 or B6 CanBus, it’s called a Gateway module which is not chassis specific but not all work on every car. Now the most update Gateway is 7N0907530BL.

      The ABS is your only issue as the Tiguan is wired and coded similar to Passat & CC due to EPB which has reasons for being included with the ABS. You can not code out the ABS as it plays a major part with the system and other components. Another thing is NO MK5, MK6, Audi, SEAT, and Skoda have a 2.5 paired with 4motion and or EPB.

      The good thing about the Tiguan in this swap is that the immo is in cluster.

      The only way the ABS is going to work is to alter the software of an ABS with a ABS 2.5 file or configuration with a Tiguan ABS eeprom and then flash that to the Tiguan ABS eeprom and then cross your fingers that it works and works properly.

      So, the best way to make this work is to completely remove the EPB, code out the EPB, install a manual hand brake, use a MK5 R32 or MK6 Golf R ABS which supports 4motion but no Guarantee that will match with the ECM, and re-wire ABS to work with replacement ABS.
      Current: R36 4Motion Wagon, MK6 Jetta SEL, 5N2 Tiguan SEL 4Motion

      Past: MK2 GTI 16v, MK4 GTI VR6, MK4 Jetta, B3 Passat GLX Wagon VR6, B3 Passat GLX Sedan VR6, B3 Passat GL Wagon 16v, B3 Passat GL Sedan 16v

    14. Member nycdub2's Avatar
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      10-12-2019 01:58 PM #12
      What year Tiguan swap? And what year engine swap?

      Asking as this will let us better help you with info.
      Current: R36 4Motion Wagon, MK6 Jetta SEL, 5N2 Tiguan SEL 4Motion

      Past: MK2 GTI 16v, MK4 GTI VR6, MK4 Jetta, B3 Passat GLX Wagon VR6, B3 Passat GLX Sedan VR6, B3 Passat GL Wagon 16v, B3 Passat GL Sedan 16v

    15. Semi-n00b
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      10-12-2019 04:24 PM #13
      Sorry I should have posted. It's a 09 Tiguan 4 motion (obviously). The engine is a 2010 with a 2009 ECM. They couldn't code the 2010 from manual to auto.

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      10-12-2019 04:41 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Zm7861 View Post
      Sorry I should have posted. It's a 09 Tiguan 4 motion (obviously). The engine is a 2010 with a 2009 ECM. They couldn't code the 2010 from manual to auto.
      Well, you need to start with an ECU from an auto instead of a manual. While you could likely get the program swapped over to one from an auto, it would likely be cheaper to just get an ECU from an automatic. Those are $20 parts at pull and pay yards. The programming is different, not just the soft code for the configuration.

      I am surprised that it isn't all sorts of unhappy. Don't mess with the ABS until you take care of the ECU.
      Last edited by Qmulus; 10-12-2019 at 04:52 PM.

    17. Semi-n00b
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      10-12-2019 04:54 PM #15
      That's why I opted for a 2009 ecm. It's automatic and the immobilizer deleted. I have the engine installed and it's been driven for the past few months. I only have codes left for the Sai. Which never came on the 2010 engine. I will get that coded out on a tune eventually. And of course the abs. The gateway on a mk5 is the same number as tiguan just with V2 on the end (Tiguan is V4) and a mk5 GTI is identical except for V3 on the end. Mk5 GTI came with an identical engine to Tiguan (CCT.) I'll talk to my tuner about putting a 2.5 file on my current abs. I want to say I'm onto something. But I could be over my head haha.

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      10-12-2019 10:29 PM #16
      Whoops, I totally missed that one. I am guessing that you are missing messages that the AWD needs for operation. I have done that kind of work for some racing teams, and honestly unless you can find a factory solution, I think getting that it would be far cheaper to put a CCTA back in than to get figured out for you.

      Hopefully it will be easier than I fear it may be and you will be able to find someone who takes an interest in this that has the in depth knowledge of the system and is willing and able to help out.
      Last edited by Qmulus; 10-12-2019 at 11:48 PM.

    19. Member nycdub2's Avatar
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      10-12-2019 10:52 PM #17
      I’m glad the car is running and has been running for awhile now.

      You don’t need to swap Gateways as yours will be fine, also what matters is HW & SW numbers not V2/3/4.

      Did you make the same mistake as Geoffzie and code out the EPB too?
      Current: R36 4Motion Wagon, MK6 Jetta SEL, 5N2 Tiguan SEL 4Motion

      Past: MK2 GTI 16v, MK4 GTI VR6, MK4 Jetta, B3 Passat GLX Wagon VR6, B3 Passat GLX Sedan VR6, B3 Passat GL Wagon 16v, B3 Passat GL Sedan 16v

    20. Member nycdub2's Avatar
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      10-12-2019 11:01 PM #18
      Also tuners just re-flash ECM software.
      ABS software has to be read out of the eeprom, altered and re-written back into eeprom.

      The ECM is usually pre-written with both configurations of Auto & manual, soft coding is all that is needed which you can do with VCDS.

      Or, you could of re-flashed the ECM with updated SW, which would have had the SAI already cancelled out.
      Current: R36 4Motion Wagon, MK6 Jetta SEL, 5N2 Tiguan SEL 4Motion

      Past: MK2 GTI 16v, MK4 GTI VR6, MK4 Jetta, B3 Passat GLX Wagon VR6, B3 Passat GLX Sedan VR6, B3 Passat GL Wagon 16v, B3 Passat GL Sedan 16v

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