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    1. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 11:53 AM #1
      https://jalopnik.com/not-to-be-sexis...who-1838877307

      Please, for the love of all that is cubic inches, do not be these men.

      Quote Originally Posted by Alanis King
      At Jalopnik, we often talk about how women get treated differently or are represented less in the car and motorsports industries—things that have long catered (and often still do) to the man’s man. But in 2019, more and more women are involved in it than ever, to say nothing of how we’re half of all drivers and most of the new car buyers. No matter what we do, some of that regressive attitude remains, and those of us who don’t fit the mold get targeted because of it.

      For those of us who work in and around cars, the hate and harassment comes at work, where we should just be able to clock in, do our jobs, and clock out, without all of that.

      If you want to know what that feels like, or if you want to be a part of changing that for the better, maybe give this a listen.
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      10-09-2019 12:06 PM #2
      Excellent PSA. Ms. ghost is a car enthusiast--the M240i is hers--and there's definitely bias. She's gets plenty of "cool car!" comments and most people are really cool, but she also gets comments like "her husband picked it out for her" (I certainly didn't) and "she can't drive it hard" (She certainly can.)

      The oddly specific one is "she got an AT because she's a girl." If they were really car enthusiasts complaining than they might know that M240i xDrive is only AT.

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      10-09-2019 12:16 PM #3
      On a more positive note on the topic: https://bust.com/living/196517-gentl...orsepower.html

    4. Member G0to60's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 12:24 PM #4
      Excellent!

      My wife has been into cars since before we met. When we both go to an event and we take one of her cars she makes it a point to be driving. In the past when we were into the VW "scene" she would drag race her 20th GTI at various shows and I would be her pit crew. Most people thought it was awesome but there were a few guys who thought I had built her car or that it was mine and that I let her drive it. When she beat them they usually shut up.

      It's even tougher with her Jeep. The bro mentality is strong in that group so even though she drives to the trail head in her purple Wrangler with Smoochy stickers on the hood and a hair tie on the manual gear lever there are guys who think that it's mine. Luckily there is a Jeep Girls group in our area that have regular trail runs with lady drivers so that limits dude bros from butting in.

    5. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 12:28 PM #5
      It's BS women have to deal with this. Full Stop. 100% believe that.

      That said, I wonder how much of this is trolls grasping at whatever straws they can, and how much of it is douche bags who are genuinely against women. Maybe it doesn't make a difference, I'm not sure, but I wonder if the same people giving women a hard time are the ones who give the men a hard time too, just using different ammunition.

      I guess I'm just saying this in hopes that the car world is not as unfriendly to women as it appears, that it is just a bunch of scumbag trolls and not actually men who are seeking to keep it boys-only.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    6. I’m not a loser. I’m a winnah!! patrikman's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 12:50 PM #6
      Not all men are *******s, just most of them.
      this signature kills fascists.

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    7. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 01:07 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      Not all men are *******s, just most of them.
      I mean, I'm an *******, but I try to be an equal opportunity *******. Not a racist/sexist/whatever-ist *******.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    8. Member geofftii2002's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 01:33 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      It's BS women have to deal with this. Full Stop. 100% believe that.

      That said, I wonder how much of this is trolls grasping at whatever straws they can, and how much of it is douche bags who are genuinely against women. Maybe it doesn't make a difference, I'm not sure, but I wonder if the same people giving women a hard time are the ones who give the men a hard time too, just using different ammunition.

      I guess I'm just saying this in hopes that the car world is not as unfriendly to women as it appears, that it is just a bunch of scumbag trolls and not actually men who are seeking to keep it boys-only.

      I don't think it matters. If someone is saying hateful things to women, that's sexism - whether or not you treat other people like crap is irrelevant.
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      10-09-2019 01:46 PM #9
      Based on the comments, language, and humor used when I'm at work around only men I not only believe all the harassment claims but fully believe it's still the tip of the iceberg. Your behavior in a "safe zone" tells how you really think and feel. If you're in space around just guys and you feel fully at ease and free to speak your mind and you spill out the kind of garbage I hear, then yes, you're a misogynist. You would act like that "in public" if you could but don't do to fear of professional and/or social consequences, not because you think it's right.

      I work in engineering and when I was in college I was on the Formula SAE team. I quit after 2 seasons due to the terrible sexist and homophobic behavior of the senior team members. I told the one decent guy in a leadership role why I was dropping out and he seemed sad and understanding but did exactly zero to fix anything. If I feel this way as a straight, white male I can't imagine how hard it is for others. You'll never attract or retain diverse talent this way.
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      10-09-2019 02:05 PM #10
      I've encountered this in the past for sure, but I've been encountering it more and more now that we're going to more events with a nicer car. Nothing super negative, but certainly the general stereotype that women aren't into cars, etc. I've been into cars for quite some time, and for awhile I had the nice, fast, modded car in the house vs my husband with his basic beater. And people always got surprised when they learned the nice car was mine. And that I did my own work on it. And it was a manual.

      Usually I get a "Oh thats awesome!" when we say that the car is mine, or that we built our project car together. But it still sucks that its automatically assumed that I had no part in it. Our '82 Rabbit Pickup, we finished earlier this year. It was very much a joint project between me and my husband. And its, IMO, a really nice build. So we take it out to shows now that its done. We went to a Cars and Coffee and I noticed a grimy spot in the engine bay so I grabbed a microfiber to clean it up. A guy looking at the truck goes "oh how sweet, she even cleans your car for you!" which really infuriated me. And most of the time when we are talking about the car, people just talk to my husband, even after learning I worked on it as well. Or, even if I am at the car doing something to it, clearly showing ownership, people will search out my husband to tell him "That's a really nice car" or "great build", etc. I have found the VW community to be pretty cool, but going to more general shows definitely seems to bring out the people who stereotype more often. And it stinks. I'm not there to be arm candy. I am there to show off a car that we are extremely proud of building (and that we've won a few awards for this show season, which honestly was unexpected!). I am passionate about all of our cars and I know a lot about them. I love getting my hands in an engine bay and wrenching. I do all my own maintenance on my cars. I love driving fast. I can and enjoy driving a manual. I've done a track day, and I want to do more. It just sucks to not be taken seriously about a subject that you're passionate about.
      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
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    11. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 01:48 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by geofftii2002 View Post
      I don't think it matters. If someone is saying hateful things to women, that's sexism - whether or not you treat other people like crap is irrelevant.
      Of course that doesn't make it less sexist, I'm saying I like to think the guys who are sexist are generally trolls/*******s to everyone else as well, I'm hoping it's not like we have this guy's club where all the guys are cool to each other but hostile to women.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

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      10-09-2019 01:44 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      It's BS women have to deal with this. Full Stop. 100% believe that.

      That said, I wonder how much of this is trolls grasping at whatever straws they can, and how much of it is douche bags who are genuinely against women. Maybe it doesn't make a difference, I'm not sure, but I wonder if the same people giving women a hard time are the ones who give the men a hard time too, just using different ammunition.

      I guess I'm just saying this in hopes that the car world is not as unfriendly to women as it appears, that it is just a bunch of scumbag trolls and not actually men who are seeking to keep it boys-only.
      In their eyes, these losers have a lot more reason to be angry at women than other men. A successful man to them is something to aspire to and a validation of their own misogyny. At the minimum, they can acknowledge another man as their equal. A successful, famous woman is a billboard of their multiple failures- sexual, social, economic, intellectual etc. Not to mention a contradiction of their beliefs. "How can a member of the inferior gender be doing so much better than I am?" So I don't quite buy that it's anywhere equal.

    13. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 12:20 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      https://jalopnik.com/not-to-be-sexis...who-1838877307

      Please, for the love of all that is cubic inches, do not be these men.



      Tempest podcast - https://play.acast.com/s/tempest/4e3...9-2c915ca8dec9
      Men suck.

      The sh*ttiest part of the entire thing is that none of these men would ever say anything like that to a woman in person.

      But everyone gets to put their mask on when they get on the internet.
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    14. Member geofftii2002's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 12:27 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      Men suck.

      The sh*ttiest part of the entire thing is that none of these men would ever say anything like that to a woman in person.

      But everyone gets to put their mask on when they get on the internet.

      So true.

      A friend of mine got wolf-whistled in Manhattan one day and she turned to the guy and confronted him - the guy literally ran away from her. Men indeed suck. It's a whole lot easier to just be welcoming to people.
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    15. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 01:21 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by geofftii2002 View Post
      It's a whole lot easier to just be welcoming to people.
      Car related activities should be inclusionary, not exclusionary. Drop the attitudes, the I'm too good to talk to you, you don't belong here attitudes, and for the love of god, men need to drop the sexist attitudes in everything.

      You know who was the best autocrosser I've ever seen? Nope, not cockerpunk. It was a 71 year old lady. While all the dudes were out there hamfisting their Lotuses through the cones, Shelly was just mobbing her Elise on the skinny 175 front tires, not understeering because she had a better touch with the car. She knew how to dance. But lord knows if I had heard anything sexist I would have called that person out.
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    16. 10-09-2019 01:24 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Car related activities should be inclusionary, not exclusionary. Drop the attitudes, the I'm too good to talk to you, you don't belong here attitudes, and for the love of god, men need to drop the sexist attitudes in everything.

      t.
      I dont know ,I kinda see women being more sexist nowadays even media supports them as nearly all commercials the man is goof dumb*** and the woman is the smart one
      Last edited by ImpeccableNEW; 10-09-2019 at 02:55 PM.

    17. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 01:31 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      I dont know ,I kinda see women being more sexist nowadays even media supports them as nearly all commercials the man is goof dumb*** and the woman is the smart one
      That's going to be hard to unpack, but if you want to try, go for it.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    18. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 01:48 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      I dont know ,I kinda see women being more sexist nowadays even media supports them as nearly all commercials the man is goof dumb*** and the woman is the smart one


      And oldie but a goodie.

    19. Member Cr4shT3st's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 03:06 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      I dont know ,I kinda see women being more sexist nowadays even media supports them as nearly all commercials the man is goof dumb*** and the woman is the smart one
      There's a 50% chance she is.

      This is the constant BS I hear at work. One woman is hired in a technical leadership role and there are tons of comments about filling quotas, affirmative action, etc on an on. Yet the total percentage of women in R&D (not even looking at leadership) isn't remotely close to 50%. As far as I'm concerned 50% of our talented engineers and chemists should be women. Shoot - insert field here - the pool should be 50%. The issue is the systems feeding into the workplace aren't balanced and the hiring process sure as sh&t isn't, either.

      I only had 2 women in my M.E. program my final year and they were not treated well by their fellow students. No wonder so few women choose that path. It's artificially difficult due to poor behavior by some/most of the members of the group in power.
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      10-09-2019 03:54 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      I dont know ,I kinda see women being more sexist nowadays even media supports them as nearly all commercials the man is goof dumb*** and the woman is the smart one
      I have to say, I agree with this. The other day I was watching MW Retro reviews, and between each episode there was a Ram commercial. The campaign is pretty dumb, and it has owners of competing brands trying to sell their competing truck with a video ad. The schtick is that the Ram is better with things like the size of the touch screen, so they ironically tout their competing trucks' less competitive features to help sell the truck they no longer want- while in the process FCA highlights how the ram is better.

      This is all fine, until you realize there are male and female versions of the commercial. The female version not only makes her look a lot less doofey than the man version, but her license plate says "He Picked" implying the car she hates was the result of her man's inability to pick a car she liked. Not to mention she makes jokes about him sitting across from her at the table, and tells them if he answers the phone, to tell him to mind his own business. Sorry, but undertones are still undertones, so I get what you are saying here 100%.



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      10-09-2019 01:38 PM #21
      Back when I used to do a lot of autocrossing there was a group of women who came out in their various hopped up cars and had at it. Some idiot told them "it takes balls to go racing", so they then named their group "Ben Wa Racing"!

      I thought that was awesome. I still do.



      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Car related activities should be inclusionary, not exclusionary. Drop the attitudes, the I'm too good to talk to you, you don't belong here attitudes, and for the love of god, men need to drop the sexist attitudes in everything.

      You know who was the best autocrosser I've ever seen? Nope, not cockerpunk. It was a 71 year old lady. While all the dudes were out there hamfisting their Lotuses through the cones, Shelly was just mobbing her Elise on the skinny 175 front tires, not understeering because she had a better touch with the car. She knew how to dance. But lord knows if I had heard anything sexist I would have called that person out.
      One of the fastest guys I ever saw wasn't a woman, but he was 80 years old. This was 25-30 years ago and he owned a Corvair Corsa, RX7 Turbo and a Fox Mustang. When you watched him he looked like he was out for a Sunday drive, but then they'd call his times and everyone would look towards him and say "HOW fast?"
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      10-09-2019 02:45 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      You know who was the best autocrosser I've ever seen? Nope, not cockerpunk...
      Quote Originally Posted by Mk1Madness
      Back when making your car faster and better handling was the big thing.
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      The car's best safety feature includes ejecting you in the moment of impact and wishing you the best of luck.
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    23. 10-09-2019 02:48 PM #23
      The girl that works at Helion is to be respected, saw her going down the 1320 in her 800-1,000hp twin turbo mustang slide out and she somehow saved it

    24. Geriatric Member @McMike's Avatar
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      10-10-2019 10:00 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      Men suck.

      The sh*ttiest part of the entire thing is that none of these men would ever say anything like that to a woman in person.

      But everyone gets to put their mask on when they get on the internet.
      They do though...

      https://jalopnik.com/auto-show-booth...ecrets-5449945

      Dudes always ask them out, try to stump them with technical questions, and ask the almighty eye-roller, "do you come with the car?"

      The stumping them with questions is just dick swinging, and it's embarrassing.

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      10-10-2019 10:09 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      They do though...

      https://jalopnik.com/auto-show-booth...ecrets-5449945

      Dudes always ask them out, try to stump them with technical questions, and ask the almighty eye-roller, "do you come with the car?"

      The stumping them with questions is just dick swinging, and it's embarrassing.
      and lets not get into IT tech conferences and booths. 80% of men are ****ty the rest of us are just trying to navigate the landmines they have placed.

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