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    Thread: A history of the decline and irrelevance of Cadillac.

    1. Member lowlight's Avatar
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      10-28-2019 07:30 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by x(why)z View Post
      A fun read and a timely topic given how CAdillas irrelevance seems to be spreading through the Youtube universe right now.

      I'm heading home to Victoria, BC as I do every Christmas, and my wife and I chose to rent a Cadillac (unknown model) to ferry around our 1-year-old. Last year we were disappointed by an Audi Q5, and I'm anticipating the Cadillac won't fare much better. I hope I'm wrong and end up adoring it so much that I come home and am given the green light to buy a lightly used, grandpa spec CT6 with supercruise as an antidote to my old M3.
      CT6 is a great driving full size luxury sedan, you could do worse. 3.0TT V6 or "Blackwing" 4.2TT V8 (only as pre owned, new are sold out I think) is no slouch.
      Current: '17 Tundra, '16 3 GT
      Past/Sold: '13 Evo, '08 Si, '12 Mustang GT, '03 Evo VIII, '01 Golf 1.8T

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    3. 10-28-2019 07:34 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by lowlight View Post
      CT6 is a great driving full size luxury sedan, you could do worse. 3.0TT V6 or "Blackwing" 4.2TT V8 (only as pre owned, new are sold out I think) is no slouch.
      Yeah and they can be pretty feature laden as well for the price. 4 wheel steering, night vision, retractable rear DVD monitors, panray bose stereo with moving center channel, supercruise. Damn some of these 2016s are a STEAL compared to what they stickered for.

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      small car that does it all, incredibly reliable too
      10-28-2019 07:43 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      Yeah and they can be pretty feature laden as well for the price. 4 wheel steering, night vision, retractable rear DVD monitors, panray bose stereo with moving center channel, supercruise. Damn some of these 2016s are a STEAL compared to what they stickered for.
      My guess is if it was 1962, that 1959 Eldorado you lusted for wouldn't be such a steal then.

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      10-28-2019 07:45 PM #29
      yep Cadilliac is still doing irrelevant stuff like put "400" on XT6... They sucks at name and now suck at numbering system too.

      “I am not a Mac user unless under duress.” - John Carmack

    6. 10-28-2019 07:57 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Avus View Post
      yep Cadilliac is still doing irrelevant stuff like put "400" on XT6... They sucks at name and now suck at numbering system too.

      Yeah they explained the 400 badge on the xt6 as the engine having 400 neuton metres of torque. But that's just pure stupidity as it's completely irrelevant and they're just trying to copy others like Audi with the 45/55 etc nomenclature.

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      10-28-2019 08:01 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      Yeah they explained the 400 badge on the xt6 as the engine having 400 neuton metres of torque. But that's just pure stupidity as it's completely irrelevant and they're just trying to copy others like Audi with the 45/55 etc nomenclature.
      It would still make some sense if it really has 400 neuton metres... an unit that is so UNAMERICAN!! This is a very stupid number.
      “I am not a Mac user unless under duress.” - John Carmack

    8. 10-28-2019 08:03 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Avus View Post
      It would still make some sense if it really has 400 neuton metres... an unit that is so UNAMERICAN!! This is a very stupid number.
      Yeah I mean it really only has 367nm of torque so you're right it's not even correct!

    9. 10-29-2019 12:26 AM #33
      With cadillac scaling back art & science due to Chinese market, theyre sedans will wither as they are bland **** liek the new CT5


      Lutz did good on this one, just needed better build quality and interior materials but this thing was futurisitic back in 2008


      Escalade is the only caddy is see having the "want" factor with most people now that the CTS V is nearly dead

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      10-29-2019 01:27 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      I don't like caddy, but the ct5 looks good in green. We need MOAR green cars
      If you replaced the Cadillac crest with a bow tie and told me that car was the new Malibu I would 100% believe you. I won't call it ugly, but somehow it looks less modern than the current ATS/CTS. I predict a sales flop that will be cancelled in the US market within 5 years.

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      10-29-2019 09:05 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      I don't quite know how they get there, but I do know that what they are doing now won't cut it.
      We can get there through the process of elimination

      Worsening road conditions have basically killed the sport sedan. This is not new, I had this realization when the Alpha cars were announced.

      Regulatory constraints and a general level of adequacy have made mechanical differentiation pointless.

      What is left?

      DESIGN.

      Compare Cadillac to both of their American competitors. Lincoln is on fire right now. Not because of Ring Tuned Dynamics and Brembo Brakes™ nobody gives a **** about It's all about them doing the very basic thing of making good looking vehicles at a decent price. Even if the Aviator had a wheezy N/A V6 out of a Ford Edge... the fact that it looks like an American Range Rover rather than a Honda Pilot with black trim works in its favor. The ancient Chrysler 300 has basically continuously outsold the whole Alpha sedan lineup, IMO on the basis of 2 things it has that they don't- good looks, and a big American V8- what should be ground zero for a luxury American sedan

      It's also much easier to maintain a good reputation than to fix a bad one and Cadillac has spent the last 40+ years training the world to associate the brand with complete dog doo doo. It will take 80 years they definitely don't have to crawl out of the hole they buried themselves into.

      Honestly Cadillac is one of the several brands I don't see being around in 20 years. Them, Jaguar, Mitsubishi, MINI, Chrysler (if they don't get any new product), possibly Nissan/Infiniti and maybe Mazda (at least in the US market). Wall St isn't playing anymore

    12. Member Karl_1340's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 09:49 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      Yeah I mean it really only has 367nm of torque so you're right it's not even correct!
      My 2.0T has 400Nm of torque, so I should get one of those badges.

    13. Member VWestlife's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 10:34 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      Being first rarely gets you noticed. Anybody remember who invented electric lighting? If you thought Thomas Edison, you thought wrong. The electric light bulb was invented by Humphry Davy decades before Edison was even born. It just wasn't that useful or commercially viable initially. There were various attempts at commercial production and numerous patents for electric lighting before Edison. Why do we think he invented the light bulb? Because he was the first one to be commercially successful selling them.
      Edison did invent the first commercially viable incandescent light bulb. Davy invented the arc lamp, which was not practical for most uses because it produced extremely bright and harsh lighting, was noisy, gave off an ozone smell, and used a lot of power. Arc lighting was really only used outdoors and in theaters and lighthouses.
      __________

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      10-29-2019 01:58 PM #38
      Cadillac should have never ceased the production of RHD variants after World War 2.

      That was also their big ball they dropped by ignoring burgeoning RHD markets.

    15. 10-29-2019 02:10 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      Cadillac should have never ceased the production of RHD variants after World War 2.

      That was also their big ball they dropped by ignoring burgeoning RHD markets.
      They sold the saabilac for a while. In sedan and wagon. And they offered it in a rhd.

      It was called the bls and based on the 93.






      There were plenty of other rhd caddys in the 2000s as well, so that's not really accurate. It didn't work so they pulled out of those markets and focused on China with Buick.


      Last edited by ice4life; 10-29-2019 at 02:16 PM.

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      10-29-2019 02:16 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      They sold the saabilac for a while. In sedan and wagon. And they offered it in a rhd.

      It was called the bls and based on the 93.






      There were plenty of other rhd caddys in the 2000s as well, so that's not really accurate. It didn't work so they pulled out of those markets and focused on China with Buick.
      Yeah, I was willfully ignoring the RHD Sevilles in the 90s that ultimately failed as well. I won't lie there lol

      I was mainly referring to the post-war Cadillacs from the 50s and 60s that should have been sold officially in Australia or South Africa. Prior to WW2, Cadillac did produce RHD cars for the UK and the Dutch Indies.

    17. Member Nealric's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 02:54 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by VWestlife View Post
      Edison did invent the first commercially viable incandescent light bulb. Davy invented the arc lamp, which was not practical for most uses because it produced extremely bright and harsh lighting, was noisy, gave off an ozone smell, and used a lot of power. Arc lighting was really only used outdoors and in theaters and lighthouses.
      Key there was commercially viable. Others did make incandescent light bulbs before Edison. For example, bulbs made with platinum filaments were tried with some success, but platinum was simply too expensive for a mass produced light bulb. Davy actually worked both with incandescent and arc lighting. Nice summary of pre-Edison electric lighting here:

      https://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1330.htm
      Last edited by Nealric; 10-29-2019 at 02:56 PM.

    18. Member 66Satellite's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 03:44 PM #42
      I grew up driving a '77 Coupe DeVille and a '79 Seville (and my folks had a '64 Cadillac Sedan Deville when I was born). The Coupe DeVille was a pretty awesome car while the Seville was definitely just a rebadged Chevy. So I would put the beginning of the end with the Seville.

      I feel like Cadillac really lost it in the 2000s when they decided to go more after performance than luxury. The 300C stole their lunch money in 2005.

      I think GM's brand strategy in general is a mess. In my mind they should have kept Pontiac and Saturn and killed Buick.

      Chevy is Chevy
      Pontiac is performance (with GTO as the foundation)
      Saturn is electric
      Caddy is luxury (and they could sell that to the Chinese instead of Buick)

      IMO
      Last edited by 66Satellite; 10-29-2019 at 03:47 PM.

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      10-29-2019 04:04 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by 66Satellite View Post
      I think GM's brand strategy in general is a mess. In my mind they should have kept Pontiac and Saturn and killed Buick.

      Chevy is Chevy
      Pontiac is performance (with GTO as the foundation)
      Saturn is electric
      Caddy is luxury (and they could sell that to the Chinese instead of Buick)

      IMO
      I think that is stupid... other brand don't need to do this and why GM need to spend so much $$ on different brands?

      Honda/BMW/Toyota/Mercedes is Honda/BMW/Toyota/Mercedes
      Honda/BMW/Toyota/Mercedes is performance
      Honda/BMW/Toyota/Mercedes is electric
      Acura/BMW/Lexus/Mercedes is luxury

      I feel like Cadillac really lost it in the 2000s when they decided to go more after performance than luxury. The 300C stole their lunch money in 2005.
      This I 100% agree... Cadillac should not chase BMW M/Mercedes AMG.... They need to fix their "luxury" first.
      Last edited by Avus; 10-29-2019 at 04:08 PM.
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      10-29-2019 04:09 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      Dr. Lienhard's son is my friend and neighbor. I've met his dad several times and he is *exactly* what you'd expect.

      I'm actually a really big fan of his.
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      10-29-2019 04:36 PM #45
      I'll get the 4th part up soon.

      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      I don't like caddy, but the ct5 looks good in green. We need MOAR green cars
      The rear roofline/c pillar is really tragic in these, compared to the outgoing formal roofline that these days is quite distinctive. Shame, they'd be a good looking car otherwise.

      Quote Originally Posted by Unilateral Phase Detractor View Post
      The decline of Cadillac was really emblematic of the decline of GM. Poor quality, ho hum styling because you're just re-badging a Chevy or Oldsmobile, plus ignoring that some drivers were interested in both luxury *and* performance. With their reputation trashed, few people will give them a second look today even though the cars are (again) class leading in some ways. Nobody has matched SuperCruise, for example.
      What's funny is that these problems were around for Cadillac by the early 70s. The 71-76 B bodies were enormous, handled worse than their predecessors, the interiors had gotten cheap and plasticy, and the cross-brand parts sharing was increased.

      The 75 Seville really was a step in the right direction and it was more than just a rebadged Nova. But by then the trend setters and celebrities have been migrating to Mercedes and other brands for several years already.

      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      Cadillac should have never ceased the production of RHD variants after World War 2.

      That was also their big ball they dropped by ignoring burgeoning RHD markets.

      I never knew Cadillac had a big presence in those markets. I'd guess it's a pretty safe bet that, had Cadillac continued competing in those markets, it's global reputation would have been in much better shape. Reminds me of why Buick is so popular in China, they were popular and had a good rep. in China before the revolution.

      It's interesting how much more modern Cadillacs were in the post-war period than a RR or Bentley, they had auto climate control and auto dimming lights (twilight sentinel) in the 50s. In the 1966 comparison test I linked, the Silver Ghost was criticized for feeling like "a twenty year old car", the A/C system resembled a dealer installation, and it still used the GM hydramatic introduced in 1940. Granted, a new Silver Shadow would have fared far better.


      Quote Originally Posted by Aseras View Post
      And they are still screwing up today.

      On my ELR, the window trim peels. It;s aluminum crimped over a rubber flange. The rubber seperates and its not like screen where you can push it back in, it's a flap. it's all one piece and each mounting point has to be drilled out. I had to have 3-4 of them shipped in to not get one bent, and the dealer put a crease in my roof from one idiot tech trying to crowbar off the old one with a screwdriver.
      I can't help but feel bad for anyone who paid anything near MSRP for an ELR, which is not only a rebadged Volt, but actually worse-if you believe Doug Demuro.
      I gave up dailing old and rare cars and became a normie.
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      10-29-2019 05:10 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      I never knew Cadillac had a big presence in those markets. I'd guess it's a pretty safe bet that, had Cadillac continued competing in those markets, it's global reputation would have been in much better shape. Reminds me of why Buick is so popular in China, they were popular and had a good rep. in China before the revolution.
      Yeah, especially in British India, Argentina (when they did drive on the left prior to 1945), and the UK.

      Interesting thing is that GM was smart to use their Canadian plants to produce RHD variants for export to other Commonwealth nations to skirt tariffs lol

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      10-29-2019 05:38 PM #47
      A TV review of the 1976 Cadillac Seville. Less than 11 MPG in a "small" Cadillac, wow!

      __________

    24. 11-02-2019 11:56 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by VWestlife View Post
      A TV review of the 1976 Cadillac Seville. Less than 11 MPG in a "small" Cadillac, wow!

      Haha and that was probably a step up compared to the eldo/fw!

    25. 11-03-2019 07:24 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post


      I can't help but feel bad for anyone who paid anything near MSRP for an ELR, which is not only a rebadged Volt, but actually worse-if you believe Doug Demuro.
      Yeah I only paid 38K OTD for mine new, still got tax credit and also had a settlement with GM for my lemon 2015 volt, so it was about the price of a civic in the end. but still...

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      11-03-2019 08:32 PM #50
      TL;DR

      Is not the XL luxo-beast Escalade still keeping Cadillac relevent??

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