VWVortex.com - A history of the decline and irrelevance of Cadillac.
Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    The Car Lounge
    Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
    Results 51 to 75 of 76

    Thread: A history of the decline and irrelevance of Cadillac.

    1. Member
      Join Date
      Aug 6th, 2016
      Location
      Oro Valley, Az
      Posts
      125
      11-03-2019 09:22 PM #51
      Whenever I see a brand-new Cadillac driving around (with or without temp tags) I can't imagine the driver buying it for any other reason other than they wanted a supposed swanky badge, but it absolutely had to be an American car; the 'Murica mindset. Otherwise, I'd imagine they'd run to the nearest Jap or German car dealer. I know I would. I feel the same about Lincoln. Although, Lincoln does make arguably more exciting cars. Which isn't saying much because some of their vehicles look (to me anyway) like odd mashups of styling cues from Euro-lux makers that Ford used to own, mixed with Audi. Actually, Ford's whole lineup is like that.

      One of the biggest issues I see with Cadillac, is the fully loaded lesser-brand equivalent seems to be a better value. It makes you wonder if the lesser car is really well built for what it is, or the Cadillac isn't all that. That's pretty sad. For example, prior to buying my new Jetta, I cross-shopped the Mazda 3, Jetta, and Mini Cooper four door, with one-year-old CPO, A4, C Class, 3 series, Q50, TLX. I wound up with a new Jetta. While I love my new Jetta, I can totally see why an A4 costs more; they're quieter, sportier, better screwed together, nicer materials, slicker tech, faster, etc... Comparing a fully loaded Chevy or Buick to a Cadillac is a totally different thing. Neither of them really feel better than the other one. That's a problem when the Cadillacs cost quite a bit more. What exactly are you getting? Other than different styling or badges?

      I think in total, American luxury is an outdated concept; they failed to compete with the almighty Japs and Germans in all aspects. Marketing, the actual product, you name it. These things matter. In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if American car makers become strictly pick-up truck producers. After all, that seems like the only thing they do right.

    2. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    3. 11-03-2019 09:29 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by TSchuettinger View Post
      Whenever I see a brand-new Cadillac driving around (with or without temp tags) I can't imagine the driver buying it for any other reason other than they wanted a supposed swanky badge, but it absolutely had to be an American car; the 'Murica mindset. Otherwise, I'd imagine they'd run to the nearest Jap or German car dealer. I know I would. I feel the same about Lincoln. Although, Lincoln does make arguably more exciting cars. Which isn't saying much because some of their vehicles look (to me anyway) like odd mashups of styling cues from Euro-lux makers that Ford used to own, mixed with Audi. Actually, Ford's whole lineup is like that.

      One of the biggest issues I see with Cadillac, is the fully loaded lesser-brand equivalent seems to be a better value. It makes you wonder if the lesser car is really well built for what it is, or the Cadillac isn't all that. That's pretty sad. For example, prior to buying my new Jetta, I cross-shopped the Mazda 3, Jetta, and Mini Cooper four door, with one-year-old CPO, A4, C Class, 3 series, Q50, TLX. I wound up with a new Jetta. While I love my new Jetta, I can totally see why an A4 costs more; they're quieter, sportier, better screwed together, nicer materials, slicker tech, faster, etc... Comparing a fully loaded Chevy or Buick to a Cadillac is a totally different thing. Neither of them really feel better than the other one. That's a problem when the Cadillacs cost quite a bit more. What exactly are you getting? Other than different styling or badges?

      I think in total, American luxury is an outdated concept; they failed to compete with the almighty Japs and Germans in all aspects. Marketing, the actual product, you name it. These things matter. In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if American car makers become strictly pick-up truck producers. After all, that seems like the only thing they do right.
      I mean you're not getting analine leather, supercruise or a rear camera mirror in a Malibu. Which you are absolutely getting in a ct5, so your argument is truly not accurate. That's not even starting on the larger engine, AWD, full led lighting, ota nav system etc.

      I don't like caddy, but that's just not true.

      What is true is that the base model caddys are truly spartan and it forces you way up the trim to get to my argument. However, that's a different argument.
      Last edited by ice4life; 11-03-2019 at 09:32 PM.

    4. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 7th, 2009
      Location
      York, PA
      Posts
      7,496
      Vehicles
      2002 VW Golf
      11-03-2019 09:37 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by TSchuettinger View Post
      Whenever I see a brand-new Cadillac driving around (with or without temp tags) I can't imagine the driver buying it for any other reason other than they wanted a supposed swanky badge, but it absolutely had to be an American car; the 'Murica mindset. Otherwise, I'd imagine they'd run to the nearest Jap or German car dealer. I know I would. I feel the same about Lincoln. Although, Lincoln does make arguably more exciting cars. Which isn't saying much because some of their vehicles look (to me anyway) like odd mashups of styling cues from Euro-lux makers that Ford used to own, mixed with Audi. Actually, Ford's whole lineup is like that.
      I disagree. I'm a Euro-car guy myself, but the new Lincoln and Cadillac models are pretty sharp, while the German brands (well, BMW at least) is doing everything they can to put me off lately. Audis are still pretty good, but kind of boring.






    5. Member MGQ's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 16th, 2002
      Location
      The City (:-l)
      Posts
      10,755
      Vehicles
      Fusion Hybrid
      11-03-2019 11:23 PM #54
      My last experience with a modern Cadillac was a 3.6 CTS4/automatic. it was pretty darn good and I would definitely consider buying one. I wasn't in love with CUE, but I assume you'd figure out how to make it work if you had to live with it for more than a day or two.
      This is only temporary, unless it works. - Red Green

    6. Chili Bigot Seabird's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 8th, 2002
      Location
      Secret underground lair with machine gun turrets
      Posts
      19,425
      Vehicles
      392+485=LOL
      11-04-2019 11:50 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by TSchuettinger View Post
      Whenever I see a brand-new Cadillac driving around (with or without temp tags) I can't imagine the driver buying it for any other reason other than they wanted a supposed swanky badge, but it absolutely had to be an American car; the 'Murica mindset. Otherwise, I'd imagine they'd run to the nearest Jap or German car dealer. I know I would. I feel the same about Lincoln. Although, Lincoln does make arguably more exciting cars. Which isn't saying much because some of their vehicles look (to me anyway) like odd mashups of styling cues from Euro-lux makers that Ford used to own, mixed with Audi. Actually, Ford's whole lineup is like that.

      One of the biggest issues I see with Cadillac, is the fully loaded lesser-brand equivalent seems to be a better value. It makes you wonder if the lesser car is really well built for what it is, or the Cadillac isn't all that. That's pretty sad. For example, prior to buying my new Jetta, I cross-shopped the Mazda 3, Jetta, and Mini Cooper four door, with one-year-old CPO, A4, C Class, 3 series, Q50, TLX. I wound up with a new Jetta. While I love my new Jetta, I can totally see why an A4 costs more; they're quieter, sportier, better screwed together, nicer materials, slicker tech, faster, etc... Comparing a fully loaded Chevy or Buick to a Cadillac is a totally different thing. Neither of them really feel better than the other one. That's a problem when the Cadillacs cost quite a bit more. What exactly are you getting? Other than different styling or badges?

      I think in total, American luxury is an outdated concept; they failed to compete with the almighty Japs and Germans in all aspects. Marketing, the actual product, you name it. These things matter. In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if American car makers become strictly pick-up truck producers. After all, that seems like the only thing they do right.
      This post is so full of conjecture and bias, I don't even know where to begin.
      Quote Originally Posted by Col. David Crockett
      I told the people of my district, that, if they saw fit to re-elect me, I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but, if not, they might go to Hell, and I would go to Texas.

    7. Member Karl_1340's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 1st, 2017
      Location
      Ottawa
      Posts
      775
      Vehicles
      2018 ATS 2.0T 6 speed manual, 2014 RDX, 1989 VW Cabriolet
      11-04-2019 12:23 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by TSchuettinger View Post
      Whenever I see a brand-new Cadillac driving around (with or without temp tags) I can't imagine the driver buying it for any other reason other than they wanted a supposed swanky badge, but it absolutely had to be an American car; the 'Murica mindset.
      I bought my brand new Cadillac because in 2018 it was the only RWD sedan you could buy with a manual transmission. BMW didn't offer one. MB didn't offer one. Audi has never offered one. Genesis was still a year away(and the manual option is not that good from reviews).

      I also paid less for it than some people are paying for Civic Si's.
      Last edited by Karl_1340; 11-04-2019 at 01:24 PM.

    8. Member 88c900t's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 6th, 2014
      Location
      "typical wisconsin rust"
      Posts
      9,038
      Vehicles
      Skyline GTS-T type M, 17 Focus ST2, Mazdaspeed Miata,
      02-11-2020 03:10 PM #57
      I never got around to making part 4, but this was too good not to share. A few Cimarron reviews, including a comparison test against an E30 and 4000Q. What's amazing about these articles is how positive the coverage is towards it, possibly due to the dire state of Cadillac at the time, Auto journos weren't fans of traditional domestic boats and the fact the J body was an all new design.


      It's better to judge older cars with historical context. Although it's biggest flaw was the notoriously weak 1.8L pushrod engine, GM decided to use the Audi 4000 as a benchmark, and that only had 78 hp (albeit it was much lighter) and was based off of the cheaper Dasher/Passat. Originally, GM wanted to use the X body (Citation) as the basis, but it had a terrible reputation as it was delivered half baked with numerous recalls, so the all new J body was chosen. I guess it's fatal flaw was that Cadillac was given no time to differentiate it from the rest of the J-car lineup. Interesting to think if GM ever gave it the 1.8 turbo.. also, the price gap between a Cavalier and the Cimarron wasn't that bad when you loaded up the Cavalier with options.

      A revised 1985 version with the V6, digidash and handling package holds up well against an early E30 (hamstrung by a wimpy 100 hp engine) and the redesigned 4000Q. The Audi is the clear winner and the BMW barely edges out the Cadillac, although they say the 4-popper E30 isn't worth it and advise getting a 325e.

      https://www.curbsideclassic.com/unca...llac-cimarron/

      I gave up dailing old and rare cars and became a normie.
      Quote Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
      Gear Patrol, which has as much cred as Paw Patrol
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
      Quote Originally Posted by volvohutter View Post
      You'll always get a pass due to your history of owning classy and sophisticated automobiles

    9. 02-11-2020 03:38 PM #58
      Saw a loaded CT5 at the grocery the other day- It actually looked much better than I expected.

    10. Member geofftii2002's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 6th, 2001
      Location
      Saint Looouueeee.
      Posts
      15,027
      Vehicles
      2010 Lexus GX460, 2018 Outback, 1972 BMW 2002tii, 2008 Mini Clubman sent packing.
      02-11-2020 03:49 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by got-rice View Post
      Just happening to be watching

      Can you tell me what happened? Because I cannot STAND this guy's diction and inflection. I made it through "Hey guys..." and about 6 other words.
      I spend my days in a 70,000 sq ft wonderland www.hymanltd.com

    11. Member NotFast's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 20th, 2002
      Location
      Chicago area, IL
      Posts
      2,485
      02-11-2020 03:50 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      Saw a loaded CT5 at the grocery the other day- It actually looked much better than I expected.
      Somewhere I saw mentioned that you can get a C8 Corvette for the same sticker as a loaded CT5. Dang.

    12. 02-11-2020 05:34 PM #61
      Cadillac interior quality has stagnated, when driving the 2007 CTS I felt like Cadi was there about 80% after riding in the CT6(which is the flagship i think) the materials didnt feel any better than that car which is over 10 years old.

      BMWs and audis while bland "feel" expensive on the inside the cadillacs almost dont baby suv was a little better but still tiny cheap details abound

    13. Member
      Join Date
      Apr 27th, 2009
      Location
      Encino
      Posts
      187
      Vehicles
      64 Riviera, Ferrari 599, MB E350, Caddy CTS
      02-11-2020 05:46 PM #62
      Got a new CT5 loaner while my CTS is in the shop. With 4 miles on it, it's literally a baby.

      The new CT5 feels like a mini CT6 rather than the outgoing CTS' "big ATS" feeling.
      The new 10-speed auto is improved and handles multiple downshifts without taking a nap between gears.
      Ride is smoother. Less road noise. The chassis is still planted well, but feels slightly isolated now. Steering is still sharp, turn-in is still great.

      The C-pillar is ugly, but thankfully I can't see it while driving. A black car with black window trim and tinted windows is the way to go.
      2.0-4 feels noticeably slower

    14. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 7th, 2009
      Location
      York, PA
      Posts
      7,496
      Vehicles
      2002 VW Golf
      02-11-2020 05:54 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      Cadillac interior quality has stagnated, when driving the 2007 CTS I felt like Cadi was there about 80% after riding in the CT6(which is the flagship i think) the materials didnt feel any better than that car which is over 10 years old.
      ...Really? Did you mean the second generation? That one was pretty good, but the first generation looks pretty terrible by today's standards.






    15. Chili Bigot Seabird's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 8th, 2002
      Location
      Secret underground lair with machine gun turrets
      Posts
      19,425
      Vehicles
      392+485=LOL
      02-11-2020 06:34 PM #64
      ^^^I do like that the shift handle evokes the shape of the badge.
      Quote Originally Posted by Col. David Crockett
      I told the people of my district, that, if they saw fit to re-elect me, I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but, if not, they might go to Hell, and I would go to Texas.

    16. 02-11-2020 08:51 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by r_fostoria View Post
      ...Really? Did you mean the second generation? That one was pretty good, but the first generation looks pretty terrible by today's standards.


      My mistake as it was in 2007 that I drove the 2nd gen 2008 model year vehicle.

      1st gen interior was horrible

    17. Member
      Join Date
      Apr 27th, 2009
      Location
      Encino
      Posts
      187
      Vehicles
      64 Riviera, Ferrari 599, MB E350, Caddy CTS
      02-13-2020 06:15 PM #66
      Still have the CT5. Ran the fuel down to 1/8 tank, filled it up with premium, performance is much more responsive now

      But...

      Car turned 120 miles yesterday, and soon after everything went haywire. Front Collision warning, airbags disabled, stabilitrack disabled, parking sensors disabled...and two other things that I can't remember right now. 6 errors, dash lit up like a christmas tree. Turned the car off and on, still the same. Parked it for a couple hours at my next destination and it's been OK since then.

      Still kept running, and didn't drop into limp mode, but I wouldn't be too happy if my brand new car started faulting just 3 days into it...

    18. Member
      Join Date
      May 15th, 2007
      Location
      Wilmington, DE
      Posts
      17,004
      Vehicles
      2015 VW GTI SE
      02-14-2020 08:23 AM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by Seabird View Post
      ^^^I do like that the shift handle evokes the shape of the badge.
      That's Cadillac's jam.

      There are badge shaped influences all over their products.

    19. 02-14-2020 08:33 AM #68
      I am probably in the minority but I really like their cars. I would buy one over an equivalent BMW or Audi, which I find so stale and vanilla in comparison.

    20. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 7th, 2009
      Location
      York, PA
      Posts
      7,496
      Vehicles
      2002 VW Golf
      02-14-2020 09:48 AM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
      I am probably in the minority but I really like their cars. I would buy one over an equivalent BMW or Audi, which I find so stale and vanilla in comparison.
      I agree, I'm not a fan of the Audi or BMW luxury cars. Mercedes would be some tough competition, though. I like their stuff.

    21. Chili Bigot Seabird's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 8th, 2002
      Location
      Secret underground lair with machine gun turrets
      Posts
      19,425
      Vehicles
      392+485=LOL
      02-14-2020 10:20 AM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      That's Cadillac's jam.

      There are badge shaped influences all over their products.
      I see them in the vents, too. It's kind of like a game of Where's Waldo.
      Quote Originally Posted by Col. David Crockett
      I told the people of my district, that, if they saw fit to re-elect me, I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but, if not, they might go to Hell, and I would go to Texas.

    22. 02-15-2020 05:16 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by MGQ View Post
      My last experience with a modern Cadillac was a 3.6 CTS4/automatic. it was pretty darn good and I would definitely consider buying one. I wasn't in love with CUE, but I assume you'd figure out how to make it work if you had to live with it for more than a day or two.
      Well that's about how long the cue would work properly before the touch screen went to hell.

    23. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 16th, 2005
      Location
      East-10EC
      Posts
      79,925
      Vehicles
      2018 F150
      02-15-2020 05:48 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by Aseras View Post
      Well that's about how long the cue would work properly before the touch screen went to hell.
      "Further Advanced" Cue works much better.
      If you want Cue, then think FA-Cue.

    24. Member
      Join Date
      Sep 20th, 2017
      Posts
      732
      Vehicles
      Boring silver appliance w/rear disc brakes & TuRD Japan shift knob
      02-15-2020 06:07 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by geofftii2002 View Post
      Can you tell me what happened? Because I cannot STAND this guy's diction and inflection. I made it through "Hey guys..." and about 6 other words.
      He gave the STS to his mechanic


    25. Member ClownCar's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 16th, 1999
      Location
      Toronto, ON, Canada
      Posts
      14,902
      Vehicles
      '16 VW Touareg TDI Execline R-Line / '18 MB B250 4MATIC / '19 Smart EQ
      02-15-2020 06:08 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      I never got around to making part 4, but this was too good not to share. A few Cimarron reviews, including a comparison test against an E30 and 4000Q. What's amazing about these articles is how positive the coverage is towards it, possibly due to the dire state of Cadillac at the time, Auto journos weren't fans of traditional domestic boats and the fact the J body was an all new design.


      It's better to judge older cars with historical context. Although it's biggest flaw was the notoriously weak 1.8L pushrod engine, GM decided to use the Audi 4000 as a benchmark, and that only had 78 hp (albeit it was much lighter) and was based off of the cheaper Dasher/Passat. Originally, GM wanted to use the X body (Citation) as the basis, but it had a terrible reputation as it was delivered half baked with numerous recalls, so the all new J body was chosen. I guess it's fatal flaw was that Cadillac was given no time to differentiate it from the rest of the J-car lineup. Interesting to think if GM ever gave it the 1.8 turbo.. also, the price gap between a Cavalier and the Cimarron wasn't that bad when you loaded up the Cavalier with options.

      A revised 1985 version with the V6, digidash and handling package holds up well against an early E30 (hamstrung by a wimpy 100 hp engine) and the redesigned 4000Q. The Audi is the clear winner and the BMW barely edges out the Cadillac, although they say the 4-popper E30 isn't worth it and advise getting a 325e.

      https://www.curbsideclassic.com/unca...llac-cimarron/

      Early 80's GM press kits for the Cimarron were made entirely of cocaine.
      Yarp or narp?

    26. Member
      Join Date
      Feb 8th, 2002
      Location
      Lincoln, NE
      Posts
      2,530
      Vehicles
      1966 Corvair | 2010 Mazda5 | 2002 Chevy 2500HD | 2017 Locost 7 | Many Subarus
      02-15-2020 06:48 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by r_fostoria View Post

      Back when these 2nd gen cars were new, I did a BMW driving event where they let me drive one back-to-back with the E90 3-series. I really liked the way the CTS drove and handled, and the regular 3.6 pulled pretty well. I even liked the interior treatment right up until I buckled the seat belt. They were still using the flappy metal belt buckles that felt, sounded, and operated exactly like a 1960 Chevy truck. Sigh. So many GM products over the decades that are 90% great but no one was willing to fight down to the last 10% to really make it world-beating.

      Sadly a lot of Cadillac's history was spent with only 10% great.
      Quote Originally Posted by sosumi on the B6 S4 V8
      It sounds like a giant shotgun and then like a bunch of ground up Yugo's in a cement mixer followed by weeks of silence interspersed by wails from the owner.

    Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •