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    Thread: DSG Failure - 60763 miles

    1. Member CTrill's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 02:14 AM #1
      I need some advice. Heres the story.

      Tldr: my dsg is broken after its second service. 763 miles out of powertrain warranty. Is there a chance in hell that VW will cover me under "good-will"?

      My car drove absolutely fine on Tuesday morning. I drove it to a local independent shop for some maintenance. I instructed them to do an oil change, rotate the tires, and do a DSG service (10k ahead of schedule), just for piece of mind.

      When i got the car back on Wednesday, it drove off the lot and immediately felt "off". The car moved differently. The clutches were slipping in 1st and 2nd gear, so acceleration had tiny hints of surging, and i could hear faint clunking when coming to a complete stop in D. I dont think much of it. The engine feels perfect

      8 miles after i picked the car up, i come to an abrupt stop in traffic. As soon as i stop, this warning pops up. Car is still in D, but isnt moving with gas pedal. I put it in N, turn it off, turn it back on, it drives fine. No lights.

      Thursday i didnt drive the car

      Friday i go to work (approx 19 miles) and try to diagnose whats going on. Babying it the whole way. I leave work, the car is stuck in 1st or 2nd gear. I pull off, cycle the ignition. Drive it directly to my local shop and apr dealership (3 miles from work)

      Im a little displeased that it drove completely okay before i dropped it off, and i dont have answers after the whole weekend, but im trying to be understanding, they probably have work thats pre-scheduled. I have a good relationship with these guys, but it just doesnt make sense to me right now.

      They're still diagnosing it. Im thinking i need a mechatronics unit replacement at the least. The guy i discussed with on the phone couldnt tell me why fresh fluid and filter would cause immediate trans failure. I'm 763 miles out of powertrain warranty. They suggested i possibly contact VWOA and ask for good-will coverage for the repair. Ive owned VAG cars for the last ~6 years (b7 s4 before the R) will they cover me? Any advice on where to go from here would be great. Im dreading the thought of taking it to the dealership


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    3. Member wuZheng's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 07:32 AM #2
      Could be under or overfilled, your guys maybe didn't do it while the transmission was level and warm, your guys maybe didn't do the VCDS pre/post-requisite **** that would've been called out in the procedures, etc. etc.

      I don't think your gearbox is broken, just perhaps your guys need to figure out what they missed in particular this time around.

    4. Junior Member
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      10-29-2019 08:44 AM #3
      Being so soon after the service, I hope your shop will take care of you one way or another. If they don't, it seems close enough to 60k that VWoA might cover it still. Do you have documentation of the first DSG service around 40k, they'll likely want proof of that. I probably wouldn't even mention the 60k service you just had as the second service isn't due until 80k.

      I had a similar issue at a local shop on my MKV R32 with the transfer case right after a fluid service, but the shop stood by their work and replaced it.
      2015 Golf R DBP DSG DCC/NAV - daily
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      2008 R32 CW DSG - sold

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      10-29-2019 09:09 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by CTrill View Post
      My car drove absolutely fine on Tuesday morning. I drove it to a local independent shop for some maintenance. I instructed them to do an oil change, rotate the tires, and do a DSG service (10k ahead of schedule), just for piece of mind.
      Abnormal operation immediately after a DSG service is way too much coincidence to ignore.

      Add me too those who suspect that you have an incorrect fill of DSG oil — too much, too little, wrong lube.

      If you're not familiar with the procedure, it's kind of weird. The official procedure calls for the DSG being filled from the bottom — intuitive, right? — using a special adapter tool, and there's a tricky overflow procedure for getting the fill amount right. As mentioned above, the DSG itself also also has to be brought up to a certain temperature range before its filled. There are ten ways to do this wrong and one to get it right.

      Normally you'd need to resolve this with the shop that did the work. However if it were me I'd consider taking it somewhere else, even if that meant eating the (considerable) cost of a corrective DSG service.

      The good news? There's a reasonable chance your DSG isn't toast.

      Neil

    7. Global Moderator EPilot's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 09:44 AM #5
      I'm not sure why when you drove it off after the service and you thought it felt off you didn't turn around and bring it right back before any other damage could have been done.
      I'm better either it was an underfill or overfill and I'm not sure which will cause more damage? Overpressure or undercooled and under pressured. Both are equally bad.

    8. 10-29-2019 09:46 AM #6
      Why in the hell wouldn't you have immediately turned around and went back to the shop who did the work? They did something wrong and you driving the car probably made it worse.....

    9. 10-29-2019 10:11 AM #7
      For anyone else who experiences similar issues, please, immediately return the car to the shop. This way the shop who did the work can easily be more at fault for the service work that caused damage to your vehicle.
      If you drove the car away from the shop and don't return for a few days, the shop can easily say "We don't know what you did between the time you left and now, you damaged your vehicle, not us."
      I have to wonder though, do techs who perform DSG maintenance typically take the vehicle for a test drive afterward? Wouldn't they also have seen issues with the vehicle during the test drive?

    10. Member CTrill's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 12:30 PM #8
      Thank you all for the responses and advice. I'll keep this thread updated as i get more info.

      For those asking why i didnt return immediately, let me be clear. The slippage wasnt always evident. It would engage the clutches as normal most of the time. I didnt notice anything out of the ordinary until the initial warning light 8 miles away from the shop

      I drove the car a total of 81 miles before it was dropped back off, and i have a photo to prove it.

      If anyone can direct me to an exact dsg procedure that i can question them on (warm up procedure, leveling, fill method, vcds adaptations afterwards, etc) id be forever grateful


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    11. 10-29-2019 01:01 PM #9
      For general info

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyfkGTfa9cU - by a VW mechanic

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjxAQsePR7Q&t=1s - New video from ShopDap



      I found the procedure for the 2018s in a section of a file (D4B807A0A71-7-Speed_Dual_Clutch_Transmission_0GC_R_Models) downloaded from erwin over a year ago, but I can't figure how to post it/send it to you. If you pm me your email I can send you that section of the file.

      If you go to https://erwin.vw.com/erwin/showHome.do you should be able to find current version of the official procedure for your exact model/year in a 'repair manual'. A daily pass to download all you can in 24hr cost $35 (you shouldn't need to pay for this info if you're having work done at shops, but considering what has potentially happened...)

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      10-29-2019 01:03 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by NeilCM View Post
      A
      Add me too those who suspect that you have an incorrect fill of DSG oil — too much, too little, wrong lube.


      Neil
      Having seen some threads about transmission and differential failures on different car boards over the years, you'd be surprised how the wrong weight of oil can destroy some of these things in short order. For a short time, Honda had the CRV differential fluid in the service computer to use in S2000 differentials. This was wrong and led to several failures.

      Keep your fingers crossed.

    13. Global Moderator EPilot's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 01:35 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by CTrill View Post
      I didnt notice anything out of the ordinary until the initial warning light 8 miles away from the shop
      But didn't turn around immediately…

      Quote Originally Posted by CTrill View Post
      I drove the car a total of 81 miles before it was dropped back off, and i have a photo to prove it.
      Instead put another 73 miles on it.

      If something like a fluid swap and filter change occurs on a transmission or engine and it doesn't feel like it did before that service. Immediately shut it down.

    14. Senior Member Vegeta Gti's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 02:18 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by EPilot View Post
      But didn't turn around immediately…


      Instead put another 73 miles on it.

      If something like a fluid swap and filter change occurs on a transmission or engine and it doesn't feel like it did before that service. Immediately shut it down.
      This

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      :HOMEGROWN MOTORSPORTS..SingerVehicleDesign...1:4.9 SuaSponte #13Dead Rabbits. Ungluck on IG. MKIforLife
      Quote Originally Posted by .Ant View Post
      What vegeta said.

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      10-29-2019 03:00 PM #13
      Clutches slipping usually means overfill no?

      Way too much oil (and maybe a heavier weight than called for) would cause the gears to get stuck in 1 or 2 maybe?

      Just spitballing...

    16. Member CTrill's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 03:06 PM #14
      Update: stopped by the shop to talk to them and try to get some answers.

      They said they pulled about 30 codes ranging from evap errors, exhaust codes (im stock downpipe), and obviously trans errors.

      They assured me that they do the dsg procedure by the book and that this is an electrical issue. I agree that it makes sense the mechatronic unit is the core of my problem, but that doesnt answer why i got the car back with faults.

      The other bit of information i hadnt even thought of before this is: while they had it on the lift i had them re-install my awe switchpath controller (only the valve controller part) it had a corroded connection so i re pinned it and never got around to putting it back on the car.

      The shop manager told me hes seen the exhaust valve overrides such as switchpath cause ecu issues, but i dont know enough about these cars to say if thats a plausible excuse for a mechatronics unit


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      10-29-2019 04:50 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by CTrill View Post
      They assured me that they do the dsg procedure by the book and that this is an electrical issue.
      Although the oil fill is done from below, the DSG has an oil filter on its top that's replaced as part of the DSG service. Using a special cranked wrench this can be done with the battery in place, but the standard method calls for removing the battery and its tray for access. The whole airbox also has to come out. This provides a possible opportunity for electrical connectors to be disturbed or wiring damaged.

      First I'd have them check that the DSG's main electrical connector is fully seated and twist-locked. That was a reported problem on some early cars. Then check any of the other electrical harnesses in the immediate area and their connectors. These cars have a slew of sensors and wiring harnesses.

      Personal experience: About 3 years ago rodents of some sort decided to nest in my engine compartment, where they also munched through one of the engine wiring harnesses. The car would run, but only sort of. One tow to the dealer, a shower of nuts and acorns from the engine compartment, a new sub-harness, and a $700 bill later, it was fixed.

      I'm not suggesting you also had rodents, but my story is an illustration of what can get damaged in there.

      Neil

    18. Member CTrill's Avatar
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      10-29-2019 07:00 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by NeilCM View Post
      Although the oil fill is done from below, the DSG has an oil filter on its top that's replaced as part of the DSG service. Using a special cranked wrench this can be done with the battery in place, but the standard method calls for removing the battery and its tray for access. The whole airbox also has to come out. This provides a possible opportunity for electrical connectors to be disturbed or wiring damaged.

      First I'd have them check that the DSG's main electrical connector is fully seated and twist-locked. That was a reported problem on some early cars. Then check any of the other electrical harnesses in the immediate area and their connectors. These cars have a slew of sensors and wiring harnesses.

      Personal experience: About 3 years ago rodents of some sort decided to nest in my engine compartment, where they also munched through one of the engine wiring harnesses. The car would run, but only sort of. One tow to the dealer, a shower of nuts and acorns from the engine compartment, a new sub-harness, and a $700 bill later, it was fixed.

      I'm not suggesting you also had rodents, but my story is an illustration of what can get damaged in there.

      Neil
      Thanks for the info on electrical connector, i'll pass that along. I too was thinking rodents were a possibility, but i check for them regularly as my parking space is outside in a squirrel infested area; and nothing. Its just too much of a coincidence that i have work done on the trans and a problem arrises


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      10-30-2019 09:51 AM #17
      Stories like these made me glad i did it myself and made sure the procedure was followed.

      Hope everything works out, VW might take care of you since you're so close to warranty, but if they open it up and find incorrect fluid/filter, or incorrect fluid level, you might be on your own.

      Good luck.

    20. Member CTrill's Avatar
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      10-30-2019 10:13 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Ecsta View Post
      Stories like these made me glad i did it myself and made sure the procedure was followed.

      Hope everything works out, VW might take care of you since you're so close to warranty, but if they open it up and find incorrect fluid/filter, or incorrect fluid level, you might be on your own.

      Good luck.
      Thanks. Im positive fluid and filter were oem and they keep trying to reassure me that the procedure was done exactly by the book. Ive insisted they double check the fill level and agree something must have been done incorrectly. Theyve had the car back for 5 days now and im growing impatient..


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      10-30-2019 11:15 AM #19
      How old is the battery? I know once it goes low it causes a bunch of weird issues as captured in this forum. That coupled with the remote connection are hopefully just minor issues causing this for you.
      Quote Originally Posted by PowerDubs View Post
      You can't see your engine bay while you drive, and popping your hood in a parking lot to show off parts is as stupid as listing them in your signature.. (not what the parts were intended for).

    22. Member CTrill's Avatar
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      10-30-2019 11:25 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by shinnersvr6 View Post
      How old is the battery? I know once it goes low it causes a bunch of weird issues as captured in this forum. That coupled with the remote connection are hopefully just minor issues causing this for you.
      Battery was replaced 2 months ago


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      10-30-2019 12:51 PM #21
      If I recall correctly, there was a thread in the last couple of months, which someone had similar weird issues (the "shifter broke" while on the highway) and had just gotten the APR exhaust, with the APR valve controller, installed very close to when this all happened. Also a DSG car, and he was battling with VW to get it covered.

      I'd be willing to bet that your, and the aforementioned owner's, incidences aren't coincidental.

    24. Member CTrill's Avatar
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      10-30-2019 12:54 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by idriveastick View Post
      If I recall correctly, there was a thread in the last couple of months, which someone had similar weird issues (the "shifter broke" while on the highway) and had just gotten the APR exhaust, with the APR valve controller, installed very close to when this all happened. Also a DSG car, and he was battling with VW to get it covered.

      I'd be willing to bet that your, and the aforementioned owner's, incidences aren't coincidental.
      Thats really interesting. Ive had the switchpath controller installed previously for over a year with no issues whatsoever. I only removed it to replace a rusty connector on the pigtail. It went back on the car while the dsg service, so the timeline makes sense. I'm still struggling to understand how that would cause the mechatronics unit to go haywire, absolutely everything else that the ecu controls is still working fine.

      If you can find that thread id love to look into it. As far as i know the shop that has my R has already tried bypassing the exhaust valve and the dsg problem persists


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      Last edited by CTrill; 10-30-2019 at 12:57 PM.

    25. Junior Member GolfWRXSTI's Avatar
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      10-30-2019 01:22 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by CTrill View Post
      Thats really interesting. Ive had the switchpath controller installed previously for over a year with no issues whatsoever. I only removed it to replace a rusty connector on the pigtail. It went back on the car while the dsg service, so the timeline makes sense. I'm still struggling to understand how that would cause the mechatronics unit to go haywire, absolutely everything else that the ecu controls is still working fine.

      If you can find that thread id love to look into it. As far as i know the shop that has my R has already tried bypassing the exhaust valve and the dsg problem persists


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      Pretty sure this is the thread the other guy is referring to. https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ies-on-Freeway

    26. 10-30-2019 01:47 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by CTrill View Post
      Thats really interesting. Ive had the switchpath controller installed previously for over a year with no issues whatsoever. I only removed it to replace a rusty connector on the pigtail. It went back on the car while the dsg service, so the timeline makes sense. I'm still struggling to understand how that would cause the mechatronics unit to go haywire, absolutely everything else that the ecu controls is still working fine.

      If you can find that thread id love to look into it. As far as i know the shop that has my R has already tried bypassing the exhaust valve and the dsg problem persists


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      So why haven't you pulled that controller off the car to eliminate that as a source of the problem? In my eyes, it's highly probable , assuming the shop did the DSG service correctly that this device could be the source of the issues. Remove it and see what happens.....

    27. Member CTrill's Avatar
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      10-30-2019 01:50 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by CRFan1 View Post
      So why haven't you pulled that controller off the car to eliminate that as a source of the problem? In my eyes, it's highly probable , assuming the shop did the DSG service correctly that this device could be the source of the issues. Remove it and see what happens.....
      The car isnt in my possession. They've already tried bypassing it and reconnecting the factory valve connections, no change in transmission


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