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    Thread: EV's outsold manual transmission vehicles last quarter in the U.S.

    1. Member CruznMalibu's Avatar
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      11-08-2019 09:31 AM #1
      Say it ain't so ....

      https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/07/...ion-sale-data/

      While electric vehicles have some way to go before they are as ubiquitous as gas-powered cars, demand is on the rise. So much so, that they outsold manual transmission vehicles in the US last quarter, according to data from research group J.D. Power.

      Around 1.1 percent of car buyers opted for cars with clutch pedals in Q3, while 1.9 percent chose an EV. J.D. Power exec Tyson Jominy suggested to Driving.ca that declining manual transmission sales were down to "the discontinuation of many compact and sub-compact sedans." Those were often seen as a cheaper way to buy a new car.

      The data indicates that, while some automakers still offer manual transmissions, they tend to be found in performance or niche vehicles than mass-market cars. As Jominy suggests, manual transmissions have been on the outs for quite some time. EVs were able to bypass them in sales within around a decade of debuting.

      Environmental concerns and more affordable EVs making their way into showrooms might be other factors in folks opting for an electric car over one with a clutch pedal. If interest in manual transmissions continues to decline, it's not hard to imagine that automakers will stop making them at any real scale.

      Still, all may not be lost if you want the best of both worlds: Ford just revealed a "one-off" electric Mustang with a gear stick.

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    3. Member col.mustard's Avatar
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      11-08-2019 10:10 AM #2
      "Oh the humanity!"
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      11-08-2019 10:13 AM #3
      Lol.... wondering which has the greater availability hmmm


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    5. 11-08-2019 10:17 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by CruznMalibu View Post
      clutch pedals in Q3,



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      11-08-2019 10:47 AM #5
      It's sad, but don't get me wrong, it's not unexpected.

      The good news is, 5 years ago we thought MTs might be extinct today and they're not.

    7. Senior Member Lwize's Avatar
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      11-08-2019 11:25 AM #6
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      11-08-2019 12:06 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by ghost03 View Post

      The good news is, 5 years ago we thought MTs might be extinct today and they're not.
      Who was thinking this? MT's are simply now an enthusiast car only option as opposed to a regular option for normal cars.
      2017 Subaru BRZ w/ PP 6MT (SCCA TT T4)/B7 Audi A4 Quattro 6MT (The winter beater)/1.8L Rotrex Time Attack Miata 5MT/NB1 Chump Car Endurance Racing Miata 6MT

    9. Member dr_spock's Avatar
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      11-08-2019 12:50 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by ghost03 View Post
      It's sad, but don't get me wrong, it's not unexpected.

      The good news is, 5 years ago we thought MTs might be extinct today and they're not.
      There are still some folks who'd rather control the machine than the machine controlling them.

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      11-08-2019 12:54 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
      Who was thinking this? MT's are simply now an enthusiast car only option as opposed to a regular option for normal cars.
      Manu's phase out MT's, people that want MT's can't find MT's. That was my case on the last 2 cars I bought, had to go auto.
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      11-08-2019 01:17 PM #10
      Just an observation....came back to the USA after 2 weeks in Mexico. Within minutes was shocked how many idiots with cellphones texting while driving I saw.

      In Mexico the 90s Nissan Sentra is alive and well among other classics. Majority of cars and trucks are manual transmission. Hardly saw anyone on their phones. Hardly saw any accidents even though there are few stop signs and the rule of the road is to simply watch and pay attention to other drivers actions. It is a bit crazy but it works for them.

      so anyway...our own need for distractions like cell phones may have created the demise of the manual transmission. Our own disregard for other drivers around us may have created the need for a million sensors and automatic devices within the car to "protect us" Lazy fat Americans indeed....
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      11-08-2019 01:56 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by syntrix View Post
      Manu's phase out MT's, people that want MT's can't find MT's. That was my case on the last 2 cars I bought, had to go auto.
      Think you might have that backwards. People stopped buying normal cars with manual, so the OEM's stopped selling them.

      Now they almost exclusively sell them on enthusiast cars only because that's the only people who buy them. Notable examples: Honda CTR, Civic si, Hyundai veloster N, Lotus Evora 400, Porsche 718, Porsche 911 Carrera S, BMW M2, BMW M4, Camaro, Mustang, Subaru BRZ, WRX, STI, Cadillac ATSV, 500 Abarth, Challenger, G70 Sport, Miata, 370Z etc.

      Basically the manual will hold on as an enthusiast car only option. That's something I don't see going away anytime soon. For those buying casual vehicles, they'll find automatic only because that's what the buyers of those vehicles want.
      Last edited by Goingnowherefast; 11-08-2019 at 01:59 PM.
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      11-08-2019 02:25 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
      Basically the manual will hold on as an enthusiast car only option. That's something I don't see going away anytime soon. For those buying casual vehicles, they'll find automatic only because that's what the buyers of those vehicles want.
      Yes, MT will be like nowadays film camera or vinyl record player.
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      11-08-2019 02:26 PM #13
      I would imagine manual’s will cost more than automatics soon!

      I do appreciate that Honda will only sell you a civic si in a manual. Good for them


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      11-08-2019 02:31 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
      Think you might have that backwards. People stopped buying normal cars with manual, so the OEM's stopped selling them.

      Now they almost exclusively sell them on enthusiast cars only because that's the only people who buy them. Notable examples: Honda CTR, Civic si, Hyundai veloster N, Lotus Evora 400, Porsche 718, Porsche 911 Carrera S, BMW M2, BMW M4, Camaro, Mustang, Subaru BRZ, WRX, STI, Cadillac ATSV, 500 Abarth, Challenger, G70 Sport, Miata, 370Z etc.

      Basically the manual will hold on as an enthusiast car only option. That's something I don't see going away anytime soon. For those buying casual vehicles, they'll find automatic only because that's what the buyers of those vehicles want.

      Did you have any evidence to support that statement?

      Again, manu's made a choice to only offer autos, so manuals were not an option for the consumer. They started the downward spiral IMHO.
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      11-08-2019 03:00 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by syntrix View Post
      Did you have any evidence to support that statement?

      Again, manu's made a choice to only offer autos, so manuals were not an option for the consumer. They started the downward spiral IMHO.
      What, that OEM's stopped selling manuals in normal vehicles because people stopped buying them? Are you serious? I thought this was common knowledge as sales numbers of publicly traded companies are, well, public. Want more proof? Just read what the executives are saying: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...s-disappearing

      If you're asking for my evidence of manuals continuing to be an enthusiast centered option, for that I can only say that is what my experience in the automotive engineering world suggests. As I tend to see things way before they are ever announced to the public.
      Last edited by Goingnowherefast; 11-08-2019 at 03:07 PM.
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    17. 11-08-2019 03:11 PM #16
      I sold my Focus ST (manual) for a 500e (EV) this year.
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      11-08-2019 03:22 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
      What, that OEM's stopped selling manuals in normal vehicles because people stopped buying them? Are you serious? I thought this was common knowledge as sales numbers of publicly traded companies are, well, public. Want more proof? Just read what the executives are saying: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...s-disappearing

      If you're asking for my evidence of manuals continuing to be an enthusiast centered option, for that I can only say that is what my experience in the automotive engineering world suggests. As I tend to see things way before they are ever announced to the public.
      I never mentioned enthusiasts.

      I CAN see it a two way street though. Most people just pick a side and think it's true.
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      11-08-2019 03:29 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
      Who was thinking this? MT's are simply now an enthusiast car only option as opposed to a regular option for normal cars.
      The "MT Doomsday" thing has been talked about for a long time in various ways, ever since Ferrari came out with the F1 gearbox I can remember hearing it. Even in 2004 I remember people being relieved that the Carrera GT had a MT. Then it happened again with DSG/PDK, and now it's happening a 3rd time with EVs.

      I agree that "enthusiast option" is what happened, I'm saying I'm glad it's still that as it could be worse.


      Quote Originally Posted by dr_spock

      There are still some folks who'd rather control the machine than the machine controlling them.
      Don't get me wrong I appreciate a good MT, I'm just calling it like I see it.

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      11-08-2019 04:02 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by syntrix View Post
      I never mentioned enthusiasts.

      I CAN see it a two way street though. Most people just pick a side and think it's true.
      The executives are literally telling us why they don't sell them. People stopped buying them when it was an option, so the started phasing them out. It's economics 101.

      You don't think OEM's would prefer to sell manuals? From an engineering standpoint not only are they way easier and cheaper to manufacture, but they don't require any calibration. In contrast, automatic transmission calibration is just as large as powertrain calibration these days and adds up to thousands and thousands of development hours per application.

      Quote Originally Posted by ghost03 View Post
      I agree that "enthusiast option" is what happened, I'm saying I'm glad it's still that as it could be worse.
      Exactly. I'm in the same boat, since some of the best driving vehicles in the world are still sold in manual so I can't complain.
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      11-08-2019 04:46 PM #20
      Execs will tell you anything to get their bonuses. Worse than Dems imho.
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      11-08-2019 05:23 PM #21
      As soon as automatic transmissions beat manuals in both fuel efficiency and performance, the only people left demanding Manuel was the 1% of enthusiasts. Back in the day, it was always an easy argument for us to win when non-enthusiast buddies asked you why you went with the manual option. 1 second quicker to 60 and 3 mpg's better efficiency. Now, you'd say you like to feel engaged with the car and they think "wtf is wrong with this guy?"

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      11-08-2019 06:06 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by masa8888 View Post
      As soon as automatic transmissions beat manuals in both fuel efficiency and performance, the only people left demanding Manuel was the 1% of enthusiasts. Back in the day, it was always an easy argument for us to win when non-enthusiast buddies asked you why you went with the manual option. 1 second quicker to 60 and 3 mpg's better efficiency. Now, you'd say you like to feel engaged with the car and they think "wtf is wrong with this guy?"
      Preach brother. I’m afraid inevitably, the 1% will get squeezed out. No more manuals.


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      11-08-2019 06:38 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
      Think you might have that backwards. People stopped buying normal cars with manual, so the OEM's stopped selling them.

      Now they almost exclusively sell them on enthusiast cars only because that's the only people who buy them. Notable examples: Honda CTR, Civic si, Hyundai veloster N, Lotus Evora 400, Porsche 718, Porsche 911 Carrera S, BMW M2, BMW M4, Camaro, Mustang, Subaru BRZ, WRX, STI, Cadillac ATSV, 500 Abarth, Challenger, G70 Sport, Miata, 370Z etc.

      Basically the manual will hold on as an enthusiast car only option. That's something I don't see going away anytime soon. For those buying casual vehicles, they'll find automatic only because that's what the buyers of those vehicles want.
      this guy get its

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      11-08-2019 06:56 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by daSchtick View Post
      I sold my Focus ST (manual) for a 500e (EV) this year.
      I'm ready to get rid of my JCW MINI (6mt) for an i3.... makes more sense for me and my driving needs... aka: traffic/urban driving/short commute.
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      11-08-2019 10:49 PM #25
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