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    Thread: College Football, and why CFP sucks

    1. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      11-21-2019 04:41 PM #1
      I'd like to have a thread for college football.

      I'd also like to discuss the current rankings.

      Like for instance, how a team like Alabama, which has one loss, to the best team in the country, is ranked lower than Georgia, who lost to a bowl ineligible unranked South Carolina.

      Oh, and also, the current playoff thing sucks. There is no reason we can't have traditional playoffs. This group of elderly gentlemen sitting behind closed doors picking their favorite schools has got to end.
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      11-21-2019 04:48 PM #2
      Rabbit's CFP fix:

      - 8 teams - 5 'major' conf winners, 3 at-large (sorry, the old Big east still gets lumped with the other guys)
      - Play the first round of 4 games at the same time as all the other minor bowls in the major bowls - Rose, Sugar, etc. get the same rotation as the CFP does now.
      - Final four then plays on the same day the weekend that the current NC game plays, but both games are on the same day, different locations. A 1pm and 7pm start on a Saturday, for example
      - Those winners that will then play for the NC get a couple weeks off and play the off weekend between the NFL conference championship games and the super bowl.

      Everyone wins - teams that are in the playoff but lose after the bowl game still boast a bowl winning season, schools make more money, and every weekend in January now has football for the fans.

      This is what the playoff should be.
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      11-21-2019 04:53 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Pizza Cat!!!! View Post
      Rabbit's CFP fix:

      - 8 teams - 5 'major' conf winners, 3 at-large (sorry, the old Big east still gets lumped with the other guys)
      - Play the first round of 4 games at the same time as all the other minor bowls in the major bowls - Rose, Sugar, etc. get the same rotation as the CFP does now.
      - Final four then plays on the same day the weekend that the current NC game plays, but both games are on the same day, different locations. A 1pm and 7pm start on a Saturday, for example
      - Those winners that will then play for the NC get a couple weeks off and play the off weekend between the NFL conference championship games and the super bowl.

      Everyone wins - teams that are in the playoff but lose after the bowl game still boast a bowl winning season, schools make more money, and every weekend in January now has football for the fans.

      This is what the playoff should be.
      Someone please, email the commissioner.
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      11-21-2019 08:05 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      Someone please, email the commissioner.
      No isht. If you can show the commissioner how to squeeze an extra few million bucks out of it, I'm sure they'll all go along. That's all they're lookiing for, anyways.
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      11-21-2019 08:46 PM #5
      Purdue football sucks, so I stopped watching after my freshman year in 2005.
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      11-21-2019 08:49 PM #6
      Playoffs are dumb and we don't need a "champion" of college football. Bring back the Rose Bowl.
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    8. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      11-21-2019 11:26 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by MGQ View Post
      Playoffs are dumb and we don't need a "champion" of college football. Bring back the Rose Bowl.
      1. If there's no clear winner, what's the point?

      2. Rose Bowl will be on 1/1/2020, I'll see you there?
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    9. 11-22-2019 12:37 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by n0rdicalex. View Post
      Purdue football sucks, so I stopped watching after my freshman year in 2005.
      you really should start watching again.

      Brohm has things pointing up. Team is just too young and injured this year.


      The 8 team playoff is something i have been harping about since the days of the BCS.

      The bias of a selection committee to pick teams to play for national title is bull****

      They always said the regular season was supposed to be the playoffs. If that is the case, then Alabama should not be anywhere close to the top 4 unless LSU loses. I think the CFP needs to have a prereq of winning your conference to qualify for it.
      Bama without Tua vs LSU is a game no one will really watch. And that is ultimately what it is about is TV $$$$.

      Things have sort have worked their way out in the past but ultimately, it needs to move to 8 teams and the power 5 winners get auto bids. Only way to really crown a true champ. Would also include the UCF's of the world who have an outstanding season and should be invited
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      11-22-2019 02:32 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      1. If there's no clear winner, what's the point?
      Well I'm not sure a nation wide single elimination tournament in a game as complex as football is realistic to me in the first place, but what I definitely *don't* think the point should be is to turn football into the disaster that the NCAA basketball tournament is. Certainly it shouldn't be based on what makes the most money or is most fun for office betting pools.
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      11-22-2019 06:56 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by MGQ View Post
      disaster that the NCAA basketball tournament is.
      Ok, you’re drunk.
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      11-22-2019 11:10 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by MGQ View Post
      Well I'm not sure a nation wide single elimination tournament in a game as complex as football is realistic to me in the first place, but what I definitely *don't* think the point should be is to turn football into the disaster that the NCAA basketball tournament is. Certainly it shouldn't be based on what makes the most money or is most fun for office betting pools.
      What's wrong with March Madness?

      Are you even American?

      And look, here's the deal. It's all about money. It's been all about money for a very long time, the only thing that's going to slowly start to change now is that players can see some of it too. I don't know why people try to lie to themselves and pretend it's anything but that. Like all this stuff with Kentucky and their basketball program, or what's happening with the player in Memphis right now. If it helps you sleep at night telling yourself it's not happening, that's fine. But at least be honest enough to know you're lying to yourself. The Kentucky basketball program isn't about getting an education, it's about playing basketball for a year and going to the NBA. The players are getting sneaker money directly from coaches, etc etc. They do everything they can to get them there, and none of it is legal. In fact, it's so commonplace that they're surprised the FBI is investigating them because "it's the way we've always done it, what's the problem?".

      I'll add to that, and say the only issue I have with any of this, are all the folks getting rich off these kids while the kids get pretty much nothing. Sure, they get an "education", so do kids with academic scholarships, and those kids aren't waking up at 4-5 AM to go to practice, and then again at lunch, and again in the afternoon, watching film all weekend, and traveling the country while trying to do school work. While I could say I don't approve of it being all about money, nothing I can do will change that. So the thing that needs to change is how the players are treated, and they can fix it by allowing them to make some side money through their "likeness". If Nike wants to slap a college athlete's face all over a sneaker, then by god pay the player for it. Schools sell millions in ticket revenue with a player on the front of the program, that player deserves a kickback, if everyone else is going to get rich off him/her.
      Last edited by Cabin Pics; 11-22-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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      11-22-2019 11:27 AM #12
      Seems AAC commissioner agrees.

      https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...ayoff-rankings
      AAC commissioner alleges 'double standard' in College Football Playoff rankings

      American Athletic Conference commissioner Mike Aresco said the 13-member College Football Playoff selection committee has ranked the teams in his conference using a "double standard," not just when measured against the Power 5 conferences but also the other Group of 5 leagues.

      "Each time I've watched the release of the rankings, I've seen an unfortunate predictability, and why wouldn't I be upset?" Aresco said Wednesday. "I'm not criticizing the committee personally, I've never done that, but what I'm doing is I'm trying to take the committee to task on their methodology and their conclusions. I want to point out the facts. My feeling is this conference has been undervalued and disrespected since the CFP began."

      While the lower portion of the committee's top 25 doesn't typically garner much attention, it's vital to the Group of 5 conferences because the highest-ranked champion is guaranteed a lucrative spot in a New Year's Six Bowl. This year, that team will earn a trip to the Goodyear Cotton Bowl Classic.

      No. 18 Memphis is currently the front-runner, followed by No. 19 Cincinnati -- one-loss AAC teams that play each other Nov. 29 and likely again in the conference championship game.


      Breaking down the biggest potential debates for the playoff committee

      LSU atop CFP again; Alabama stays at No. 5

      What the playoff and New Year's Six bowl games would be today
      Aresco took particular exception to No. 25 SMU's ranking behind No. 24 Appalachian State this week. He also disagreed with the Mustangs sitting behind No. 20 Boise State and two four-loss Power 5 teams, No. 22 Iowa State and No. 23 USC.

      "We've been fighting what I think is a P5 preference," Aresco said. "We've been fighting it for years and we're fighting now a double standard when it comes to evaluating G5 teams."

      When asked for a comment in response, CFP executive director Bill Hancock said, "Certainly, I feel that everyone is entitled to his or her opinion."

      Aresco had multiple facts at his fingertips in a call with ESPN on Wednesday to help illustrate the strength of the AAC, which is 14-1 this year against the other Group of 5 conferences (4-0 against the Sun Belt, 3-0 against the Mountain West, 6-0 vs. C-USA and 1-1 vs. MAC). The only loss was Temple's loss to Buffalo.


      Aresco also said the AAC has 44 wins against Power 5 opponents since 2014, five top-10 wins during that span, and three New Year's Day bowl wins over top-10 teams. He was particularly frustrated SMU wasn't ranked ahead of Appalachian State, considering the Mustangs' lone loss was to a ranked Memphis team.

      "Appalachian State loses to Georgia Southern at home," he said. "SMU plays in a much tougher conference. It's not even close."

      He also wondered why Boise State, whose only loss was Oct. 19 at BYU, moved up in the ranking and SMU moved down.


      "SMU beat TCU on the road and didn't need three overtimes to do it," Aresco quipped.

      Aresco is already prepping for the fact that Memphis and Cincinnati will finish with multiple losses because of the regular-season matchup.

      "A two-loss champion from our league ... they should be a lock," Aresco said. "If the CFP standard is to identify and rank the best teams -- and it is -- there's no question in my mind that our champion, whoever it turns out to be, will be the best team in the G5 and better than many P5 teams that are ranked ahead of them."
      It's just too bad so much MONEY is wrapped up in all this crap.
      College athletics should be about celebrating the student athletes- all the student athletes.
      Unfortunately trying to force the entire US college football universe into one championship when every teams plays different conferences and teams.. is just a mess.
      I understand wanting to know who in #1 and #2 at the for a college superbowl so to speak (BIG MONEY).
      But the CFP should not be the defining status of all college football.

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      11-22-2019 11:28 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      If Nike wants to slap a college athlete's face all over a sneaker, then by god pay the player for it. Schools sell millions in ticket revenue with a player on the front of the program, that player deserves a kickback, if everyone else is going to get rich off him/her.
      I have a HUGE issue with this and I was heavily in the camp of "yes, we should pay players" at one time. In my opinion, and I've said this for years, is that players should receive a monthly allowance. No sneakers deals, or jersey deals, etc. The Offensive Line gets completely hosed while the super star "skilled" position player gets all the pile of cash. That's a recipe for disaster for morale and of trust/integrity issues.

      Aside from my athletic scholarship, the only money I ever received in college was a $150/month ROTC stipend.
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      11-22-2019 11:49 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by SWeetie View Post
      I have a HUGE issue with this and I was heavily in the camp of "yes, we should pay players" at one time. In my opinion, and I've said this for years, is that players should receive a monthly allowance. No sneakers deals, or jersey deals, etc. The Offensive Line gets completely hosed while the super star "skilled" position player gets all the pile of cash. That's a recipe for disaster for morale and of trust/integrity issues.

      Aside from my athletic scholarship, the only money I ever received in college was a $150/month ROTC stipend.
      You have a point there, if one kid is bringing all the cash, that's fine, but don't direct it directly to him/her. It gets dispersed evenly.

      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      Seems AAC commissioner agrees.

      https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...ayoff-rankings


      It's just too bad so much MONEY is wrapped up in all this crap.
      College athletics should be about celebrating the student athletes- all the student athletes.
      Unfortunately trying to force the entire US college football universe into one championship when every teams plays different conferences and teams.. is just a mess.
      I understand wanting to know who in #1 and #2 at the for a college superbowl so to speak (BIG MONEY).
      But the CFP should not be the defining status of all college football.
      He's got a point, right now with the way the NCAAB tournament is setup, small schools like South Dakota have a chance to get to the Final Four.

      If you're not a power house school in a Power 5 conference you have no chance in NCAAF. This was demonstrated several times over by UCF. They go undefeated, have no chance at making national title appearance. That's not fair. Now, if there was a tournament in place, they'd at least have a chance. I still don't think they'd hold a candle to a team like LSU or Alabama, but they could at least make an appearance and try. Notre Dame gets by on this because of the heritage and the amount of pull they have. As demonstrated in their 2013 appearance in the national championship game.
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      11-22-2019 11:57 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by SWeetie View Post
      I have a HUGE issue with this and I was heavily in the camp of "yes, we should pay players" at one time. In my opinion, and I've said this for years, is that players should receive a monthly allowance. No sneakers deals, or jersey deals, etc. The Offensive Line gets completely hosed while the super star "skilled" position player gets all the pile of cash. That's a recipe for disaster for morale and of trust/integrity issues.

      Aside from my athletic scholarship, the only money I ever received in college was a $150/month ROTC stipend.
      I agree there should be some based salary/allowance that's equitable. I get the morale issue point, but I don't think that's a reason to stop the star players from being able to make money on the value they're creating via endorsements. Some kids are playing college ball to get an education, and some have a chance to go pro. The former shouldn't be upset that the latter are making money from a jersey deal.

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      11-22-2019 12:12 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by westsideseal View Post
      I agree there should be some based salary/allowance that's equitable. I get the morale issue point, but I don't think that's a reason to stop the star players from being able to make money on the value they're creating via endorsements. Some kids are playing college ball to get an education, and some have a chance to go pro. The former shouldn't be upset that the latter are making money from a jersey deal.
      My beef has always been that there's no way a OL guard's jersey is going to make any money. That's not his fault. So he's not being rewarded for it. Chances for a sneaker deal are zilch. So here goes the OL, doing their thing they do every weekend. Practicing hard, studying, watching film, understanding the week's blocking scheme. And if they do it right, if they grade at 80%, then Superstar Johnson gets all the glory and more money.

      I also have issues with colleges being pro athlete puppy mills. Old Tua seems to have gone the way of Bo Jackson. He should probably stay and get his degree :/
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      11-22-2019 12:18 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by SWeetie View Post
      My beef has always been that there's no way a OL guard's jersey is going to make any money. That's not his fault. So he's not being rewarded for it. Chances for a sneaker deal are zilch. So here goes the OL, doing their thing they do every weekend. Practicing hard, studying, watching film, understanding the week's blocking scheme. And if they do it right, if they grade at 80%, then Superstar Johnson gets all the glory and more money.

      I also have issues with colleges being pro athlete puppy mills. Old Tua seems to have gone the way of Bo Jackson. He should probably stay and get his degree :/
      I don't think Tua's career will be over because of his hip. Plus, he also has to have a pretty decent insurance policy just in case he is done.

      With Bo, he was *so* strong, that he basically caused his hip injury to be more catastrophic because he was pulling away from the tackler with such force. Nobody does strong like Bo does.



      Back to the paying all players - they do technically get a stipend, but it's peanuts. They all should get an actual wage that is appropriate for the amount of work they do for their respective institutions, just like any employee would. If the stars can make a little more scratch, so be it - thats the way the market works.
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      11-22-2019 03:24 PM #18
      Couple of responses to some points made here:

      1. Only the final rankings matter. Prior week rankings do not affect the subsequent weeks. Every week before the final rankings is just for clicks.

      2. College players currently get paid by the schools via stipends. IMO the players should be the only ones to profit from their likeness or no one should. Don’t care outside of that.

      3. Rabbit’s playoff fix is great until CFB moves to 4, 16-team conferences. 2 divisions each conference. Then the regular season acts as a tournament and historical rivalries and interesting OOC games can still exist.

      4. I started a CFB thread earlier this season and ending up just talking to myself.
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      11-22-2019 07:58 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by SWeetie View Post
      My beef has always been that there's no way a OL guard's jersey is going to make any money. That's not his fault. So he's not being rewarded for it. Chances for a sneaker deal are zilch. So here goes the OL, doing their thing they do every weekend. Practicing hard, studying, watching film, understanding the week's blocking scheme. And if they do it right, if they grade at 80%, then Superstar Johnson gets all the glory and more money.

      I also have issues with colleges being pro athlete puppy mills. Old Tua seems to have gone the way of Bo Jackson. He should probably stay and get his degree :/
      I get that, but that's life. Hamstringing the star players doesn't leave the less appreciated players any better off. There's no need to limit one person's earning potential just for parity.

    21. 11-26-2019 06:10 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by LinkATX View Post
      Couple of responses to some points made here:

      1. Only the final rankings matter. Prior week rankings do not affect the subsequent weeks. Every week before the final rankings is just for clicks.

      2. College players currently get paid by the schools via stipends. IMO the players should be the only ones to profit from their likeness or no one should. Don’t care outside of that.

      3. Rabbit’s playoff fix is great until CFB moves to 4, 16-team conferences. 2 divisions each conference. Then the regular season acts as a tournament and historical rivalries and interesting OOC games can still exist.

      4. I started a CFB thread earlier this season and ending up just talking to myself.
      I didn't see it. Sorry

      But the college talk here has been lame for quite some time.


      Talking about this the other day at work, they almost need to make the FBS a 2 division setup. Power 5 teams and ND play in one division and the other FBS can have their own. Award 2 National Champs and let them structure their own tournaments/bowls etc.

      Expand the Power 5 deal to a 6 best teams make the playoffs. Conf winner gets an auto bid plus 1 at large (the Notre Dame loop hole)

      Seeds 1 and 2 get byes. 3v6 and 4v5 at home stadium of higher seed OR a neutral site closer to the higher seed. Final Four like they do now.
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      11-26-2019 06:37 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      Like for instance, how a team like Alabama, which has one loss, to the best team in the country, is ranked lower than Georgia, who lost to a bowl ineligible unranked South Carolina.
      Alabama can't win their division now, and their wins don't balance their loss to LSU. Georgia is not the better overall team (definitely not offensively) but at least can counter the bad South Carolina loss which was in overtime, with wins against a ranked Notre Dame, a ranked Florida and a ranked Auburn.

      Quote Originally Posted by Juiced6.3 View Post

      But the college talk here has been lame for quite some time.
      This.

      I remember the mega-thread in the Sports Forum from 2007 when everybody ranked #2 had an aversion to winning. THAT kind of season was worth talking about. Now? The same usual bull**** at the top. There is no parity in CFB now.
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      11-26-2019 06:56 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by MGQ View Post
      the disaster that the NCAA basketball tournament is.
      What now? Them's fightin' words.
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    24. 11-27-2019 01:17 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Pizza Cat!!!! View Post
      Rabbit's CFP fix:

      - 8 teams - 5 'major' conf winners, 3 at-large (sorry, the old Big east still gets lumped with the other guys)
      - Play the first round of 4 games at the same time as all the other minor bowls in the major bowls - Rose, Sugar, etc. get the same rotation as the CFP does now.
      - Final four then plays on the same day the weekend that the current NC game plays, but both games are on the same day, different locations. A 1pm and 7pm start on a Saturday, for example
      - Those winners that will then play for the NC get a couple weeks off and play the off weekend between the NFL conference championship games and the super bowl.

      Everyone wins - teams that are in the playoff but lose after the bowl game still boast a bowl winning season, schools make more money, and every weekend in January now has football for the fans.

      This is what the playoff should be.

      I've been on board with this idea for a long time. Another note is that the conference championship games matter even more now, you know those viewership numbers go up if you have a chance for the 'playoffs'

      My ultimate hope going into the final selection week.

      Minnesota wins out and narrowly takes down Ohio St

      Georgia wins out similarly against LSU

      Oklahoma and Utah also take their conference championships.

      Who the F*** do they chose? All would still be viable options according to their criteria, anyway you slice that people would be absolutely pissed.

      I also intentionally left out Clemson, because they will surely beat whatever high school team they are facing in the ACC title game.

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      11-27-2019 08:44 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by DWhiteRiot View Post
      I also intentionally left out Clemson, because they will surely beat whatever high school team they are facing in the ACC title game.
      It could likely be VT, which isn't a HS team, although Clemson would still be an easy double digit favorite.

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      11-27-2019 09:38 AM #25
      I can't believe The Art Institute's team is rated so low.

      **** this rating system. My alma mater deserves better.
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