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    Thread: What does Alfa's future look like here in the US?

    1. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 05:03 PM #1
      Recently discovered a local Fiat/Alfa, Jeep dealer stopped selling Alfa's and now only carries Jeep and Fiats. That leave's 1 Alfa dealer in Orange County in CA. SoCal is still fortunate enough to have about a dozen dealerships carrying the brand across San Diego to LA county.

      With the news of Fiat not bringing over the 500 anymore either what do we think is gonna happen to the Italians here in the next 5-10 years?

      Also wondering what this will do to the 4 cheese Giulia. It being a halo car with risky reliability. Will it drive prices back up since it will be a one off with no future models here in the US or make prices plummet ?


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    3. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 05:20 PM #2
      Throw in the pending merger as well. Hopefully PSA can market and manage the brand better, but my guess is they're going to want to push a PSA brand and it would be that instead of Alfa, since there's really no brand equity for Alfa in the US, except with us enthusiasts.

    4. Moderator silverspeedbuggy's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 05:27 PM #3
      I recently rewatched the Ralph Gilles episode of Abstract on Netflix. He referenced in it that the Milan studio was working on the next 5 Alfa models. Now that doesn't mean those 5 models will come to fruition, but they were working on them back whenever that was taped. The Tonale is coming soon. Beyond that, who knows.

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      11-26-2019 05:28 PM #4
      Alfa's US future in one image:


    6. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 05:30 PM #5
      It's strange as they have the Tonale SUV on the horizon, and they had plans for the 3-row Castello as well. I think the PSA merger just threw a monkey wrench into everything- not to mention the law suit brought on by GM/federal rico case against FCA for racketeering all happening at the same time.

      Not saying the Giulia/Stelvio aren't cool cars- but they just got refreshed and look exactly the same which is pretty sad considering the Giulia came out in 2016 as a 2017. It is the typical lipstick on a pig FCA way to drag out their cars forever when the competition keeps moving forward (think WK2 and Challenger/Charger/300).

      Now that the 4C is dead in the US (which it was a halo small seller anyway), they are down to 2 models. If they don't do something soon, I feel like most dealers will just drop their franchise and move on which will ultimately kill the models in the US on its own.


      Honestly it is too soon to tell the fate- they could pull a rabbit out of their hat and shock us by throwing PSA models into the alfa mix, or they could completely pull out the rug from under us.

      An interesting failed rebirth to say the least.

    7. Member MontoyaF1's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 05:30 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by vwpiloto View Post
      Throw in the pending merger as well. Hopefully PSA can market and manage the brand better, but my guess is they're going to want to push a PSA brand and it would be that instead of Alfa, since there's really no brand equity for Alfa in the US, except with us enthusiasts.
      I didn't know that Peugeot and Citroen have better brand equity in the U.S. than Alfa Romeo.

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    8. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 05:33 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by MontoyaF1 View Post
      I didn't know that Peugeot and Citroen have better brand equity in the U.S. than Alfa Romeo.

      Nope, but they certainly have cooler fresher offerings. Even some cool electric models that actually might sell..

    9. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 05:39 PM #8
      I personally think the roll out of Alfa has been a disaster. They needed the cars to be reliable, and instead they have had very high profile failures in the hands of journalists. My friend is a Honda junkie and has very little tolerance for reliability issues, and he just test drove a Giulia, and he got multiple warnings and failures on the test drive.

      Opportunity terminated.

      I hope Alfa has a future. BUt it will take more time, more money, and more of everything that Alfa doesn't seem to have.

      So to that end....I think this may be the end for Alfa unless more investment is needed.
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    10. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 06:04 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by MontoyaF1 View Post
      I didn't know that Peugeot and Citroen have better brand equity in the U.S. than Alfa Romeo.

      They don't, nor did I say that they did. But PSA wants to sell those brands here, and since Alfa has no brand equity here, it's easy to replace whatever money is and has been spent on Alfa in the US and use that towards Citroen, Puegeot, or DS instead.

    11. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 06:06 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      I personally think the roll out of Alfa has been a disaster. They needed the cars to be reliable, and instead they have had very high profile failures in the hands of journalists. My friend is a Honda junkie and has very little tolerance for reliability issues, and he just test drove a Giulia, and he got multiple warnings and failures on the test drive.

      Opportunity terminated.

      I hope Alfa has a future. BUt it will take more time, more money, and more of everything that Alfa doesn't seem to have.

      So to that end....I think this may be the end for Alfa unless more investment is needed.
      They should have sold it to VAG back when Piech wanted to buy it.

    12. Senior Member Silly_me's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 06:21 PM #11
      I dunno, but I saw a quadrifoglio at the market today and had to resist the urge to touch myself until I got back in my car.
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    13. Member Itgb's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 06:21 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by vwpiloto View Post
      They should have sold it to VAG back when Piech wanted to buy it.
      As much as I hate to say it, they would've been better off with VAG as owners. Look what they've done with Lamborghini... pretty successful in my opinion.

      My only fear at the time was that they would've been forced to go FWD and ruin what makes Alfa special. Thankfully Sergio pushed for a RWD chassis, but the short development timeline didn't help their reputation. I hope they can pull through with some more models in the coming years.
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    14. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 06:39 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy View Post
      I recently rewatched the Ralph Gilles episode of Abstract on Netflix. He referenced in it that the Milan studio was working on the next 5 Alfa models. Now that doesn't mean those 5 models will come to fruition, but they were working on them back whenever that was taped. The Tonale is coming soon. Beyond that, who knows.
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      It's strange as they have the Tonale SUV on the horizon, and they had plans for the 3-row Castello as well. I think the PSA merger just threw a monkey wrench into everything- not to mention the law suit brought on by GM/federal rico case against FCA for racketeering all happening at the same time.

      Not saying the Giulia/Stelvio aren't cool cars- but they just got refreshed and look exactly the same which is pretty sad considering the Giulia came out in 2016 as a 2017. It is the typical lipstick on a pig FCA way to drag out their cars forever when the competition keeps moving forward (think WK2 and Challenger/Charger/300).

      Now that the 4C is dead in the US (which it was a halo small seller anyway), they are down to 2 models. If they don't do something soon, I feel like most dealers will just drop their franchise and move on which will ultimately kill the models in the US on its own.


      Honestly it is too soon to tell the fate- they could pull a rabbit out of their hat and shock us by throwing PSA models into the alfa mix, or they could completely pull out the rug from under us.

      An interesting failed rebirth to say the least.

      Let's hope. They desperately need something new. Their line up while still attractive is getting pretty old now. My fear is they rumored to be releasing other Alfa's too, that never came. Didnt they say we were going to get the Giulietta as well? What happened to that?

    15. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 06:52 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by absoluteczech View Post
      Let's hope. They desperately need something new. Their line up while still attractive is getting pretty old now. My fear is they rumored to be releasing other Alfa's too, that never came. Didnt they say we were going to get the Giulietta as well? What happened to that?
      Just get your Ti, scratch the itch and you can look back one day with rose tinted glasses.

    16. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 06:58 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by vwpiloto View Post
      Just get your Ti, scratch the itch and you can look back one day with rose tinted glasses.
      No itch, just extremely bored at my new job and it gives me too much time to think

    17. Member Galrot's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 07:02 PM #16
      Alfa Romeos future is uncertain in general, but I don't think their future is more uncertain in the USA. In fact they are somehow doing even worse in Europe right now compared to the USA.




    18. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 07:04 PM #17
      Wow who would have guessed. Looks like the Chinese like them though

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      11-26-2019 07:19 PM #18
      "What does Alfa's future look like here in the US?"

      Race to the bottom of any auto reliability list.
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    20. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      11-26-2019 08:05 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by absoluteczech View Post
      Wow who would have guessed. Looks like the Chinese like them though
      5,500 units in 2018 in the largest auto market in the world? I think Jaguar sold 4 or 5 times as many cars in China as Alfa. It's looking pretty bad for Alfa in China (2019 sales is trending down in China in case you are wondering).

      Here is the real problem for Alfa... Europe which is the largest market for the brand had survived on FWD Mito and Giulietta for years but FCA decided not to bother with their replacements. This is why the bottom is falling out for Alfa in Europe just as the German brands went all in on B and C segment FWD offerings. It's a bad product decision that is going to have long term consequences for the brand.

      Meanwhile, Sergio (RIP) orchestrated the investment in the larger Giuilia and Stelvio in order to establish the brand in US and China but which really haven't paid any dividend for the brand in the larger global picture. The pathetic sales result in China in particular must really sting.

      If I worked at FCA, I would have argued for more investments to keep Mito and Giulietta competitive against Mini/1 series, A1/A3, and Smart/A-Class. The Alfa brand cannot survive without Europe. It will live on if it never sells another car in China or US. But I probably would have been UAW'd by Sergio

      I'm not saying FCA shouldn't have invested in Giulia. I'm saying they should have shifted some of that Dodge Dart money (which was basically wasted) into a new Giuletta. And really... Fiat can't come up with a replacement for 15 years old Punto (on which platform the Mito is based on)?

      Here are some of the many articles on Alfa's struggle:

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#2b663fdf2d08

      Alfa Romeo has five models on its books, including the 4C sports car, the dated MiTo three-door hatch, the just-facelifted Giulietta five-door hatch and the expensively developed Giulia sedan and Stelvio crossover.

      Lancia, on the other hand, sells just one car – the eight-year-old Ypsilon five-door hatch. It might be a legendary name, with some of the most desirable cars ever built on its books and with multiple World Rally Championships to its name, but its reputation for quality is so bad in Europe that it has retreated to just one market: Italy.

      FCA analyst Fiat Group World pointed out that Alfa Romeo sales fell to 29,187 in the first half of 2019, while the Ypsilon, based on the budget Fiat Panda, managed 34,691 sales in Italy alone.

      Alfa’s sales fell 42 percent year-on-year in Europe, while Lancia’s rose 29 percent with an ancient product that wasn’t terribly good to begin with.

      https://europe.autonews.com/blogs/al...worsens-europe

      Alfa Romeo is in trouble. The Fiat Chrysler Automobiles premium brand was outsold by the Tesla Model 3 in Europe during the first half 37,476 to 29,059. A positive way to spin this is by saying it's an indication that car buyers in Europe are warming to electric cars.

      Another glance at the sales chart, which shows Alfa's six-month sales are down 42 percent compared with the same period last year, provides even more bad news. Alfa was also outsold by its one-model, one-market sister brand, Lancia, which managed to deliver 34,693 Ypsilons through June in Italy.
      Last edited by bzcat; 11-26-2019 at 08:18 PM.

    21. 11-27-2019 02:28 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Avus View Post
      "What does Alfa's future look like here in the US?"

      Race to the bottom of any auto reliability list.

      You mean, where Cadillac now sits??? ok

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      11-27-2019 09:28 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Tomaz View Post
      You mean, where Cadillac now sits??? ok
      you think Alfa can't beat Cadillac in this "race"??
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    23. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      11-27-2019 09:36 AM #22
      I think the Giulia and Stelvio are going to go down in history as one of Alfa's all time great platforms. The Quadrifoglios in particular will be classics someday - mark my words. THey have the looks, the performance, the practicality, and most importantly - the pedigree. Not just Alfa's pedigree...they are going to be known as the Four Door Ferrari. The Giorgio platform is going to be "that one time when Alfa kidnapped Ferrari engineers and locked them into a room with no food or water and told them to design a platform".

      But the problem is it's not enough. I seriously hope the Tonale is a hit - right now, Alfa's fortunes in the US rely on that car being every bit as attractive and desireable as the Giulia and the Stelvio are.

      My hope is they come up with a small sport sedan off that car as a bone to enthusiasts like me.
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    24. Member freedomgli's Avatar
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      11-27-2019 10:26 AM #23
      Live in the now. Tomorrow isn't promised to anyone. But if we must look into our crystal balls and predict the future of Alfa in America, this is what I see:











      https://www.alfabb.com/threads/orang...closed.672692/

      https://jalopnik.com/bank-repossesse...ers-1836466308

      https://www.stelvioforum.com/threads...closing.10205/

      https://www.giuliaforums.com/threads...-closed.44774/

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      11-27-2019 11:19 AM #24
      This isn't really rocket science. They need a plan and I seem to recall FCA showing their 10 yr (?) plan that had some interesting models across the brands. It ultimately comes down to not letting cars die on the vine and making notable progress on the reliability front over the years. I have no sense of how FCA is positioning their future. It seems like there isn't much going on in the future for the brand---which if true, certainly doesn't bode well. Hurting things for Alfa is that their product lineup is fairly limited. So they are at a crossroad right at this moment. Do they want to keep selling cars (at least in the US) or do they just want to shrink back and focus on the Italian market?

    26. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      11-27-2019 11:23 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      This isn't really rocket science. They need a plan and I seem to recall FCA showing their 10 yr (?) plan that had some interesting models across the brands. It ultimately comes down to not letting cars die on the vine and making notable progress on the reliability front over the years. I have no sense of how FCA is positioning their future. It seems like there isn't much going on in the future for the brand---which if true, certainly doesn't bode well. Hurting things for Alfa is that their product lineup is fairly limited. So they are at a crossroad right at this moment. Do they want to keep selling cars (at least in the US) or do they just want to shrink back and focus on the Italian market?
      Don't forget that their dealer network is closing up at a very alarming rate. We have already lost a few here in Chicagoland.
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