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    Thread: What does Alfa's future look like here in the US?

    1. Feels Like the First Time DeeJoker's Avatar
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      11-29-2019 11:10 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      You hit the nail on the head with this post. The dealers are CRAP. Most are dealers that converted over from Chrysler/Plymouth/Jeep and also started handling Fiat. They don't have a clue on people's expectations when you spend 50K+ on car.
      QFT.

      I don't expect to have my butt kissed but just do your job which many dealers don't. Every time I have been to a non-luxury dealer it feels like I am going to a flea market full of hustlers looking to rip me off. And the service people? Lets just say a lot of them need to their attitude checked.

      I just don't understand how and why in this day and age that crappy experience is still the norm.
      The above post may contain opinions, coarse language, offensive terms, spelling mistakes, and/or improper grammar. You have been warned.

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    3. Member
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      11-30-2019 07:52 AM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by DeeJoker View Post
      QFT.




      I just don't understand how and why in this day and age that crappy experience is still the norm.
      Sadly, many people have no choice. You buy a car, there's probably 1 dealership in town. If you're in warranty they kind of have you by the balls.

    4. 11-30-2019 08:10 AM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      And the service people? Lets just say a lot of them need to their attitude checked.
      So true even at a honda dealer had some guy trying to sell me super retail priced motor mounts, no thanks bud

    5. Member
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      11-30-2019 09:53 AM #79
      On the flip side, when you find a good service person don't let them go. Part of why I bought the Acura was because one of the service advisors at my local Honda dealer is a real stand up dude. They do exist

    6. 11-30-2019 10:23 AM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      So true even at a honda dealer had some guy trying to sell me super retail priced motor mounts, no thanks bud
      I am considering a new car, the hustle in the dealerships is worse than ever. Been to Alfa, Toyota, Hyundai, Chevy, VW, Mazda and Kia.

      I go to a Honda dealer and the greasy looking sales guys are standing outside by the front door like a pack of hyenas. I pull up in my Audi and one of them says to me:

      "WHY DONT YOU BUY A REAL CAR WITH A HATCH"

      As I walked right by him I said - Is that how you greet potential new customers? I realized he was teasing but its not a bright thing to say.

      The Alfa dealer was equally as stupid. He started telling me how Audis are just glorified VWs. Thanks but I can live without the history lesson.

      Where do they get these guys?

    7. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 11:55 AM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Sadly, many people have no choice. You buy a car, there's probably 1 dealership in town. If you're in warranty they kind of have you by the balls.
      Quote Originally Posted by DeeJoker View Post

      I just don't understand how and why in this day and age that crappy experience is still the norm.
      Yeah VW is really bad service and continues to get worse. Most of the service staff are highschool dropout dirtbags who are just trying to get off work and get high (they admit it!). And this is at all 5 of them in the area! If they can't get an answer from the 1800 tech line they call, they just give up. Pretty ****in sad.

    8. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 11:57 AM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      Where do they get these guys?
      I mean show me someone with a college degree who wants to sell or service cars. No one, because the dealership owners and service managers are slimey and take advantage. So the only people they can get are the highschool dropouts that are desperate for any work and **** schedules. That obviously amounts to a solid team of workers

    9. 11-30-2019 01:02 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      I mean show me someone with a college degree who wants to sell or service cars. No one, because the dealership owners and service managers are slimey and take advantage. So the only people they can get are the highschool dropouts that are desperate for any work and **** schedules. That obviously amounts to a solid team of workers
      It doesnt have to do with college. I have met plenty of ghetto types that went to college but for all intents and purposes they are still the ghetto. They speak and act like they are from the ghetto despite college.

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      11-30-2019 01:24 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      It doesnt have to do with college. I have met plenty of ghetto types that went to college but for all intents and purposes they are still the ghetto. They speak and act like they are from the ghetto despite college.
      Being from "the ghetto" doesn't preclude the ability to deliver good customer service You don't need a college degree to be good at customer service either

      The real problem is the crazy low unemployment rate. Across the board employers kind of have to take whoever they get. It's much worse at lower pay levels as there's so much turnover.

    11. 11-30-2019 02:35 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      On the flip side, when you find a good service person don't let them go. Part of why I bought the Acura was because one of the service advisors at my local Honda dealer is a real stand up dude. They do exist
      This is 100% true. My experience at my Alfa/Fiat dealer has been great for the past 4+ years because I really like the Alfa tech that works on my car a lot. He does great, clean work, and understands how anal I am about everything. The one problem I had he quickly diagnosed, and fixed right, the first time.

      The one downer is that I've had like 4 service advisors. The Towbin dealership network out here in Vegas is huge, and so they hire/fire and move people regularly. I prefer to have a relationship with my sales advisor, but I'd rather have a great mechanic than the same person to book my appointments and greet me when I come in. Everyone has been VERY nice to me over there, and I like the dealership a lot. Is it like taking my Porsche in for service, or my wifes S4, no. But I'm cool with talking to my tech when he works on my car rather than sit in a fancy lounge.

      I guess overall I'm pretty lucky to thus far have had a great experience. If my tech ever leaves, that would change things a lot...but that would be true at my Audi dealer as well as I love my mechanic there too. I've known him for 15+ years.
      Last edited by Flash; 11-30-2019 at 02:39 PM.

    12. Feels Like the First Time DeeJoker's Avatar
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      12-01-2019 02:37 AM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      I mean show me someone with a college degree who wants to sell or service cars. No one, because the dealership owners and service managers are slimey and take advantage. So the only people they can get are the highschool dropouts that are desperate for any work and **** schedules. That obviously amounts to a solid team of workers
      Easy there. There are plenty of people that don't have degrees that aren't slime balls and make far more than you or I. Let's not go down that road. And a college degree or HS diploma or even GED not mean you're a decent human being. Lotta human garbage out there at all education levels.

      My Mercedes dealer's service advisors are professional, courteous, honest and friendly. They get the service experience has to be on point, befitting the stature of the brand. (Probably to avoid somebody going nuts because of the sky high pricing...) I keep coming back because I like and appreciate them. I wish I could say the same for other dealers though. Sales department, OTOH... not impressed. I don't give a damn if you name drop your clients, and frankly it irritates me yet they do it.
      Last edited by DeeJoker; 12-01-2019 at 02:39 AM.
      The above post may contain opinions, coarse language, offensive terms, spelling mistakes, and/or improper grammar. You have been warned.

    13. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      12-01-2019 11:08 AM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      It doesnt have to do with college. I have met plenty of ghetto types that went to college but for all intents and purposes they are still the ghetto. They speak and act like they are from the ghetto despite college.
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Being from "the ghetto" doesn't preclude the ability to deliver good customer service You don't need a college degree to be good at customer service either

      The real problem is the crazy low unemployment rate. Across the board employers kind of have to take whoever they get. It's much worse at lower pay levels as there's so much turnover.
      Quote Originally Posted by DeeJoker View Post
      Easy there. There are plenty of people that don't have degrees that aren't slime balls and make far more than you or I. Let's not go down that road. And a college degree or HS diploma or even GED not mean you're a decent human being. Lotta human garbage out there at all education levels.

      My Mercedes dealer's service advisors are professional, courteous, honest and friendly. They get the service experience has to be on point, befitting the stature of the brand. (Probably to avoid somebody going nuts because of the sky high pricing...) I keep coming back because I like and appreciate them. I wish I could say the same for other dealers though. Sales department, OTOH... not impressed. I don't give a damn if you name drop your clients, and frankly it irritates me yet they do it.
      Put the pitchforks away- I never said you needed to have a college degree to do the job, I said show me someone with a college degree that has the job. You're implying I have one and am putting down these (outlier) amazing service advisors you guys have for not having one. That's not my point, my point is that in a full employment economy, the lower end jobs are not amassed by educated and professional type workers. Your examples of luxury car dealer service depts are not representative of the masses of slime balls who work at non lux car dealers. And as you alluded to, sales is slimey no matter what. And people who make more than there counterparts with said degree, are often in situations in which they take chances and have a much greater risk of failure due to a lack of a well rounded education (market trading, start-ups etc).

    14. Member whalemingo's Avatar
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      12-01-2019 01:38 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      Alfa is baked and done in the US. Move on. I live in one of the most affluent parts of the US and rarely see them and there is an Alfa dealer no more than 10 miles from my house. I occasionally see the Stelvio and Giulia at my gym. But at my gym you regularly see Lambos, Ferraris and Bentleys...

      A few things have killed them in my opinion:

      -Questionable reliability. They haven't lived down their reputation from the past.

      -Inadequate parts network. There are stories of people waiting for a month or months for a part.

      -Inadequate dealer network. These are higher end cars and people expect to be treated better. FSA better wake up.

      Right around the Alfa dealer by me there is Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Audi, Porsche and Acura. All of these companies have DECADES of experience being an import car company in the US. Some going back 70 years at this point.

      Why would anyone spend $60-70K+ on a car that has questionable reliability/sales/service when you can do the sure thing and buy from one of the companies that has been in the US for a long time?

      I could very well see Alfa owners being screwed and being very difficult to get parts in the future.

      Its unfortunate because they are cool cars. But whatever...

      So you live in Sherman Oaks and are right near Keyes Alley on Van Nuys Blvd? The Alfa dealer out there sucks I went there with cash in hand to buy one, but they couldn't ditch the dodge dealer bull**** tactics. So I went and bought another Mercedes because the dealership/service experience can't be beat.
      All Hail Andy?

    15. Moderator silverspeedbuggy's Avatar
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      12-01-2019 03:19 PM #89

    16. 12-01-2019 04:45 PM #90
      I assume that delusion appeared after drinking a case of wine and smoking some mary jane.

    17. Member davewg's Avatar
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      12-01-2019 05:34 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
      It's still worth it to me to have a few problems here and there and drive a car I am passionate about, than buy a car I consider bland, but will be bullet proof wrt reliability. But that's me, and I totally understand the opposite view.
      QFT.

      Unfortunately, because most people don't feel this way most cars on the road are boring appliances.
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    18. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      12-01-2019 06:52 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      I assume that delusion appeared after drinking a case of wine and smoking some mary jane.
      Like that time VW claimed they were poised to sell 800k cars a year in the US?

    19. Senior Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      12-02-2019 02:25 AM #93
      I get you gotta work with what you have but the reason these cars aren't selling well isn't the cheap plastic center console, lack of adaptive cruise w/lane keep assist, or gold paint, which appears to be the only real changes on the 2020's minus some other extremely minor updates like wheels or painted bumper trim. It's the dealer network and reliability ratings.
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...

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      12-02-2019 08:19 AM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by chucchinchilla View Post
      I get you gotta work with what you have but the reason these cars aren't selling well isn't the cheap plastic center console, lack of adaptive cruise w/lane keep assist, or gold paint, which appears to be the only real changes on the 2020's minus some other extremely minor updates like wheels or painted bumper trim. It's the dealer network and reliability ratings.
      And the fact that people would rather lease mediocre German cars than take a hit on brand. In this market brands rule

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      12-02-2019 09:09 AM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      5,500 units in 2018 in the largest auto market in the world? I think Jaguar sold 4 or 5 times as many cars in China as Alfa. It's looking pretty bad for Alfa in China (2019 sales is trending down in China in case you are wondering).

      Here is the real problem for Alfa... Europe which is the largest market for the brand had survived on FWD Mito and Giulietta for years but FCA decided not to bother with their replacements. This is why the bottom is falling out for Alfa in Europe just as the German brands went all in on B and C segment FWD offerings. It's a bad product decision that is going to have long term consequences for the brand.

      Meanwhile, Sergio (RIP) orchestrated the investment in the larger Giuilia and Stelvio in order to establish the brand in US and China but which really haven't paid any dividend for the brand in the larger global picture. The pathetic sales result in China in particular must really sting.

      If I worked at FCA, I would have argued for more investments to keep Mito and Giulietta competitive against Mini/1 series, A1/A3, and Smart/A-Class. The Alfa brand cannot survive without Europe. It will live on if it never sells another car in China or US. But I probably would have been UAW'd by Sergio

      I'm not saying FCA shouldn't have invested in Giulia. I'm saying they should have shifted some of that Dodge Dart money (which was basically wasted) into a new Giuletta. And really... Fiat can't come up with a replacement for 15 years old Punto (on which platform the Mito is based on)?

      Here are some of the many articles on Alfa's struggle:

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#2b663fdf2d08

      https://europe.autonews.com/blogs/al...worsens-europe
      the one worthwhile post in the thread. thank you.

    22. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      12-02-2019 09:31 AM #96
      One sale at a time. That's what Alfa needs to do. They need to stick with it, realize there's no magic bullet here, and fight for every sale. They need a 10 - 20 year plan and they need to stick with it.

      If they do that, I see a future for them.

      The Giulia Quadrifoglio is literally everything I look for in a car save for a 6 speed manual. I would still love to have one someday.
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    23. 12-02-2019 10:44 AM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
      It's still worth it to me to have a few problems here and there and drive a car I am passionate about, than buy a car I consider bland, but will be bullet proof wrt reliability. But that's me, and I totally understand the opposite view.

      I think the driving experience and looks of the Alfa models are there, they just obviously need to dial in a bunch of other things.

      I hope they can pull a rabbit out of a hat. I just love having the brand around as an option, and they are beautiful to look at, and even better to drive. I encourage everyone to stop by an Alfa dealership and take out a Giulia or Stelvio for a test drive. You will instantly feel something special about these cars that can't be put into words. Apparently that might not be enough though...
      Completely agree. I know it's a gamble but I've had problems from more "reliable" brands that weren't nearly so good to drive (Volvo).

      My coworker has an early '17 2.0 and it's been completely trouble free. If my two local dealers close then it will be more of a headache than I hoped for but I love the car and I didn't want to pass up the chance to own one of these cars before they're gone.
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    24. 12-02-2019 12:37 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      And the fact that people would rather lease mediocre German cars than take a hit on brand. In this market brands rule
      There is more to it than just brand:

      -Perceived lack of reliability even if other brands are just as bad.

      -Reputation of Italian cars being junk.

      -Lots of stories in the media about brand new Alfas having problems.

      I dont think they are actually worse than anyone else but their reputation is far worse. Go to the Porsche Macan forum and read about some of the problems (transfer case, blah, blah, blah). Yet Porsche has a reputation for better reliability than everyone.

    25. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      12-02-2019 01:02 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      There is more to it than just brand:

      -Perceived lack of reliability even if other brands are just as bad.

      -Reputation of Italian cars being junk.

      -Lots of stories in the media about brand new Alfas having problems.

      I dont think they are actually worse than anyone else but their reputation is far worse. Go to the Porsche Macan forum and read about some of the problems (transfer case, blah, blah, blah). Yet Porsche has a reputation for better reliability than everyone.
      Take your own advice and go to the Giulia forums.

      There's some MAJOR horror stories out there. And you do not have the backing of the Porsche dealership.

      You also have some catastrophic depreciation thanks to said reputation, which is why you should lease it.
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    26. Senior Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      12-02-2019 01:03 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      I dont think they are actually worse than anyone else but their reputation is far worse. Go to the Porsche Macan forum and read about some of the problems (transfer case, blah, blah, blah). Yet Porsche has a reputation for better reliability than everyone.
      Perception is reality. Good news for me really as I'd love a barely used but very depreciated Giulia.
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...

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