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    Thread: I had some exhaust work done on my car.... Can anybody here try and rationalize this install....

    1. Member CostcoPizza's Avatar
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      11-29-2019 07:31 PM #26
      Hope you paid via credit card, cause this you can always dispute.
      Last edited by CostcoPizza; 11-29-2019 at 08:08 PM.

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    3. Moderator rs4-380's Avatar
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      11-29-2019 07:39 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by elite.mafia View Post
      So the exhaust work was about $600. the entire midpipe and cat was replaced. Parts cost for just that cat/midpipe assembly are about $400. I've had other quotes from other shops at $900 for this job... So it was a good deal if it was done correctly. It's a direct fit part specifically for this car. I forgot to show the pictures of after I picked it up from the 2nd attempt for them to fix it...

      I brought it back because it was obviously leaking and I explained to them that they clearly used the wrong hardware and gaskets... so I told them to use correct gaskets and the spring bolts that came with the exhaust... this is the result.... WTF..... I'm pretty sure that a: the spring bolts are fully compressed which isn't correct... and B: that the gasket is.... uhhh... UHHHHH


      At least they replaced the hardware store nut and bolt, because THAT wasn't going to last very long in that kind of environment.

      If you are worried about the gap between the two flanges it's not really an issue, that's a ball and socket style joint, so the flanges don't actually need to touch to seal. It doesn't use a gasket.



      I'm not trying to defend the work, but I can see what happened. You are trying to mate an aftermarket part to a corroded, oem part that relies on a tight fit between the two surfaces (and not gasket) to seal. Because the aftermarket stuff is probably crap and the OEM part that is on there does not have a smooth surface, he probably had a hard time initially getting the spring bolts on there without it leaking. It would appear that he figured out a way the 2nd time around, but it still leaks, again probably because the surface isn't pristine or the ball and socket don't mate perfectly (because one is crap aftermarket and one is old OEM).
      Last edited by rs4-380; 11-29-2019 at 07:46 PM.
      Dave

    4. Moderator rs4-380's Avatar
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      11-29-2019 08:08 PM #28
      also, I'm sure the burn mark is from getting the old one out. Exhaust shops don't usually use wrenches for removal.

      Dave

    5. 11-30-2019 08:55 AM #29
      Rationalize? here goes...

      Customer brings in non-oem "guarunteed" to fit midpipe for crusty old jalopy and is looking for the cheapest place in town to perform work. R&R whizbangery no problem. Get car in air, see iron oxide factory and whip out cutting torch to remove old parts. Install "guarunteed" to fit aftermarket midpipe only to find it fits like isht. Install gaskets, new generic fasteners, and some exhaust paste to git R dun. Fire it up, doesn't sound like a freight train, ship it, flag 2 hours and head over to the urgent care for a tetanus booster.

      Does that make it right? Not at all.

      Individual results may vary.

    6. Senior Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 10:17 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by jaystone View Post
      Rationalize? here goes...

      Customer brings in non-oem "guarunteed" to fit midpipe for crusty old jalopy and is looking for the cheapest place in town to perform work. R&R whizbangery no problem. Get car in air, see iron oxide factory and whip out cutting torch to remove old parts. Install "guarunteed" to fit aftermarket midpipe only to find it fits like isht. Install gaskets, new generic fasteners, and some exhaust paste to git R dun. Fire it up, doesn't sound like a freight train, ship it, flag 2 hours and head over to the urgent care for a tetanus booster.

      Does that make it right? Not at all.

      Individual results may vary.
      Accurate.

      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

    7. Iím not a loser. Iím a winnah!! patrikman's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 10:38 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by jaystone View Post
      Rationalize? here goes...

      Customer brings in non-oem "guarunteed" to fit midpipe for crusty old jalopy and is looking for the cheapest place in town to perform work. R&R whizbangery no problem. Get car in air, see iron oxide factory and whip out cutting torch to remove old parts. Install "guarunteed" to fit aftermarket midpipe only to find it fits like isht. Install gaskets, new generic fasteners, and some exhaust paste to git R dun. Fire it up, doesn't sound like a freight train, ship it, flag 2 hours and head over to the urgent care for a tetanus booster.

      Does that make it right? Not at all.

      Individual results may vary.
      That sounds about right to me. Just because you paid too much doesnít mean they were wrong to charge you that much. Did they do a ****ty job? Yes. Does that happen? Absolutely.

      The grey **** is likely a non Permatex branded gasket maker. Iíve had good luck using the Permatex stuff but itís copper colored.
      Last edited by patrikman; 11-30-2019 at 10:42 AM.
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      11-30-2019 11:06 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post

      The grey **** is likely a non Permatex branded gasket maker. Iíve had good luck using the Permatex stuff but itís copper colored.
      Permatex sealents comes in a dozen or so colors including gray, one of the grays is specifically an exhaust sealent for this job, the copper is not.

    9. Iím not a loser. Iím a winnah!! patrikman's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 11:35 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      Permatex sealents comes in a dozen or so colors including gray, one of the grays is specifically an exhaust sealent for this job, the copper is not.
      Ok Mr. Knowitall, thanks for the heads up.



      FWIW, itís kept my 2pc downpipe sealed for the last 40k miles but YMMV.
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    10. Senior Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 11:39 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post

      The grey **** is likely a non Permatex branded gasket maker. Iíve had good luck using the Permatex stuff but itís copper colored.
      I have never had any luck with any gasket makers on exhaust except for my old Cavalier.

      Tracked Porsches (Cayman/964) have all leaked, even my Infiniti header to cat gaskets leaked.

      Only solutions i've ever found not to leak are actual metal gaskets.



      It also should be noted that I rev the **** out of all of those vehicles (high EGTs).

      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

    11. Iím not a loser. Iím a winnah!! patrikman's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 12:10 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      I have never had any luck with any gasket makers on exhaust except for my old Cavalier.

      Tracked Porsches (Cayman/964) have all leaked, even my Infiniti header to cat gaskets leaked.

      Only solutions i've ever found not to leak are actual metal gaskets.



      It also should be noted that I rev the **** out of all of those vehicles (high EGTs).

      I tried to find one locally without luck, and the company that made it didnít get back to me about one so I tried this and it has worked so far. Iím certain Iíll need to redo it eventually but itís been good so far.
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      11-30-2019 12:26 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      Ok Mr. Knowitall, thanks for the heads up.



      FWIW, itís kept my 2pc downpipe sealed for the last 40k miles but YMMV.
      Look at what is being sealed in the picture on this page. It's the metal not the gasket. The gray hardens to essentially become metal like filler to make something for an existing gasket to seal against. This is similar to the stuff used on stove pipes.


      Bottom line you didn't realize this product existed, and we're talking crap like you were a know it all.

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      11-30-2019 12:32 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      I have never had any luck with any gasket makers on exhaust except for my old Cavalier.

      Tracked Porsches (Cayman/964) have all leaked, even my Infiniti header to cat gaskets leaked.

      Only solutions i've ever found not to leak are actual metal gaskets.



      It also should be noted that I rev the **** out of all of those vehicles (high EGTs).
      Best gasket is often no gasket.

      I stopped using gaskets on turbo installs almost 20 years ago.. stopped having leaks.

      Part of the problem is once half a gasket blows out the flange is not evenly torqued and it warps. Once it warps unless you machine it flat it will never evenly clamp down on the gasket and it will blow out again and again.


      Not necessarily a solution to the round woven or compressed donut style but I try to never install flat gaskets on new flanges and they have less problems.

    14. Member elite.mafia's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 12:42 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by jaystone View Post
      Rationalize? here goes...

      Customer brings in non-oem "guarunteed" to fit midpipe for crusty old jalopy and is looking for the cheapest place in town to perform work. R&R whizbangery no problem. Get car in air, see iron oxide factory and whip out cutting torch to remove old parts. Install "guarunteed" to fit aftermarket midpipe only to find it fits like isht. Install gaskets, new generic fasteners, and some exhaust paste to git R dun. Fire it up, doesn't sound like a freight train, ship it, flag 2 hours and head over to the urgent care for a tetanus booster.

      Does that make it right? Not at all.

      Individual results may vary.
      I didn't bring in that midpipe... They sourced it....
      '03 Matrix XRS 6mt 2zz-ge

    15. Member elite.mafia's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 12:48 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by rs4-380 View Post
      At least they replaced the hardware store nut and bolt, because THAT wasn't going to last very long in that kind of environment.

      If you are worried about the gap between the two flanges it's not really an issue, that's a ball and socket style joint, so the flanges don't actually need to touch to seal. It doesn't use a gasket.



      I'm not trying to defend the work, but I can see what happened. You are trying to mate an aftermarket part to a corroded, oem part that relies on a tight fit between the two surfaces (and not gasket) to seal. Because the aftermarket stuff is probably crap and the OEM part that is on there does not have a smooth surface, he probably had a hard time initially getting the spring bolts on there without it leaking. It would appear that he figured out a way the 2nd time around, but it still leaks, again probably because the surface isn't pristine or the ball and socket don't mate perfectly (because one is crap aftermarket and one is old OEM).
      I don't understand how you can say the gasket is unnecessary... The gasket is there, along with the spring bolts, to hold the seal as it flexes. At least that's how It was explained to me.
      also I know what it looks like in there, and that is not what it looks like...



      should look like this without the gasket...



      fact is this: they sourced the midpipe, the gaskets, I brought in nothing. They used the wrong gaskets and hardware and tried to seal the incorrect gasket with exhaust putty. It leaks from the flange. It sounds like ****.

      (make sure to unmute as there is audio)
      listen for the hissing sound...
      https://i.imgur.com/Jv8SxJ3.mp4
      Last edited by elite.mafia; 11-30-2019 at 01:09 PM.
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    16. Moderator rs4-380's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 02:21 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by elite.mafia View Post
      I don't understand how you can say the gasket is unnecessary.
      I thought you were concerned that the flanges werenít touching and there was no flat gasket between them. If that setup uses a metal sealing ring as opposed to just flared pipes then my statements still apply. Those things can be a real pain in the ass to get aligned and sealed when you are dealing with a combination of new and old and aftermarket/oem parts.
      Dave

    17. Member elite.mafia's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 02:26 PM #41
      No, my concern is primarily that exhaust is pouring out of that flange and it sounds awful. Secondly that they used incorrect hardware, incorrect gaskets and tried to seal it with putty... I wouldn't REALLY care if it looked like this and wasn't leaking.. but alas... it is definitely leaking out of that flange... rear one is solid but looks horrible.
      here is the new OEM gasket btw...
      Last edited by elite.mafia; 11-30-2019 at 02:31 PM.
      '03 Matrix XRS 6mt 2zz-ge

    18. Iím not a loser. Iím a winnah!! patrikman's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 02:36 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      Look at what is being sealed in the picture on this page. It's the metal not the gasket. The gray hardens to essentially become metal like filler to make something for an existing gasket to seal against. This is similar to the stuff used on stove pipes.


      Bottom line you didn't realize this product existed, and we're talking crap like you were a know it all.
      We are?

      Bottom line is that I do know what Iím talking about, and I do know difference between a flange joint and a slip joint that uses a donut. My point was trying to explain that the silver stuff was probably not regular gasket maker but made to seal exhaust leaks. Then I mentioned that Iíve had success with the copper stuff in reference to another person saying they only use metal gaskets. It had literally nothing to do with the OPs car but tell me again how the copper stuff I posted isnít for exhaust.
      Last edited by patrikman; 11-30-2019 at 02:39 PM.
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    19. Member Pnuu's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 02:45 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      We are?

      Bottom line is that I do know what Iím talking about, and I do know difference between a flange joint and a slip joint that uses a donut. My point was trying to explain that the silver stuff was probably not regular gasket maker but made to seal exhaust leaks. Then I mentioned that Iíve had success with the copper stuff in reference to another person saying they only use metal gaskets. It had literally nothing to do with the OPs car but tell me again how the copper stuff I posted isnít for exhaust.
      I'll back this 100%.

      If one needs some schmoo to seal up exhaust, Ultra Copper is one of the best options available. It's just high-temp RTV but works well for flat flanges against a flat surface.

      Most Toyota joints use the aforementioned donut gaskets, which work well on stock applications. But the hack job exhaust that this thread is about no longer resembles anything close to stock Toyota.

      OP - take your car to a good performance exhaust shop, not the cheapest place available, and have them fix this mess. Unfortunately this will end up being a lesson that the cheapest shop will provide you crap work 99.9% of the time.

    20. Member elite.mafia's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 02:53 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Pnuu View Post
      I'll back this 100%.

      If one needs some schmoo to seal up exhaust, Ultra Copper is one of the best options available. It's just high-temp RTV but works well for flat flanges against a flat surface.

      Most Toyota joints use the aforementioned donut gaskets, which work well on stock applications. But the hack job exhaust that this thread is about no longer resembles anything close to stock Toyota.

      OP - take your car to a good performance exhaust shop, not the cheapest place available, and have them fix this mess. Unfortunately this will end up being a lesson that the cheapest shop will provide you crap work 99.9% of the time.
      This pipe SHOULD have no issues mating up with the correct gasket.... I'm not really sure what the gasket they are using is for but it's pretty clear its not for this application...
      '03 Matrix XRS 6mt 2zz-ge

    21. Iím not a loser. Iím a winnah!! patrikman's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 03:04 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by elite.mafia View Post
      This pipe SHOULD have no issues mating up with the correct gasket.... I'm not really sure what the gasket they are using is for but it's pretty clear its not for this application...
      Itís probably just a universal one that they had laying around, which would explain the leak.
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      11-30-2019 03:19 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      The grey **** is likely a non Permatex branded gasket maker. Iíve had good luck using the Permatex stuff but itís copper colored.
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      . It had literally nothing to do with the OPs car but tell me again how the copper stuff I posted isnít for exhaust.
      Just to be clear when you said the gray stuff, which was only shown and discussed in regards to the OPs car you didn't mean the OPs car?

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      11-30-2019 03:34 PM #47
      Stuff like this what made me learn to fix my own exhaust leaks. I'm not paying someone that kind of money when I can DIY for less that $10.


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      11-30-2019 04:34 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Senior Member View Post
      Stuff like this what made me learn to fix my own exhaust leaks. I'm not paying someone that kind of money when I can DIY for less that $10.
      The amount of time OP has crawled under to take pics of this mess he could've just used a couple of 12mm wrenches instead of a camera and fixed the mess.
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

    25. Member elite.mafia's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 04:37 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      The amount of time OP has crawled under to take pics of this mess he could've just used a couple of 12mm wrenches instead of a camera and fixed the mess.

      This **** is heavy man plus I want these *******s to fix it. Also all but 2 pictures were when it was on the lift in the shop....
      '03 Matrix XRS 6mt 2zz-ge

    26. Senior Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      11-30-2019 04:44 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by elite.mafia View Post
      This **** is heavy man plus I want these *******s to fix it. Also all but 2 pictures were when it was on the lift in the shop....
      Don't mind me man, i'm just an *******.
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

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