If there is room to park there is room to charge. That said, I think diversification- EVs, hydrogen vehicles, hybrids- are all necessary and helpful on the way to a mostly EV world.
And not a temporary one.** Which brings us to Hydrogen. Hydrogen powered vehicles in masse are a bigger and even further away pipe dream than EVs. Why does Toyota bother with it? Because EVs will remain a very small niche for a very long time, Toyota is looking at an alternative.
We are dependent on combustible at so many levels.
Last week in in North East Canada, the teamsters were on strike and no CN trains were circulating. It provoked a crisis for the farmers because they was no more propane necessary to HEAT their facilities; animals were scheduled to die but it resumed just on time.
I have a plant with an heat treatment industrial process that runs also on propane. It came in hours of stopping the operations.
Another ones are relying to natural gas for heating.
Guess what, all of those systems could use electricity as the local supply is the cheapest in the world (Quebec). If we did that, that would cost multiples times what we have now.
So yes, Toyota is 100% right, an alternative is needed for many, many reasons, and just electricity is NOT the answer on a larger perspective. We need a synthetic fuel, that will also be used in airplanes.
Last edited by BlakeV; 11-30-2019 at 01:23 PM.
One less PHEV soon;
Batteries won: BMW confirms i3 REx range extender on its way to extinction
The rapid progress of lithium-ion battery-cell energy density and the growth of fast-charging networks have together helped write the epitaph for BMW’s range-extending technology, badged REx on the BMW i3.
“It has no future,” replied Jan Freimann, BMW’s manager for connected e-mobility and one of the company’s battery experts, in a presentation on battery technology and procurement last week at the LA Auto Show.
Freimann circled back to tempered the blunt statement to remind us that although the i3 REx, with its little 647-cc 2-cylinder engine serving as a backup generator, is already discontinued in Europe, it may remain for sale for some time in other markets—like the U.S. But he underscored that in terms of being any broad part of the company’s e-mobility strategy, the time for REx has passed.
“The idea behind the range extender really helps people to get over range anxiety,” he explained, and it helped keep BMW from being reliant on big battery packs. “With a range extender you always had the feeling like okay, I’ve got a backup solution.”
Things have changed, though. With the build-up of DC fast-charging infrastructure from Ionity in Europe, Electrify America in the U.S., and others, “there’s really no need to be afraid,” Freimann added.
Originally the 2014 i3 had a 60 Ah battery; now it’s 120 Ah (42.2 kwh rated)—with a cell energy density of 352 watt-hours per liter from the latest Samsung prismatic cells. During that time the battery-only version’s EPA-rated range has gone from 81 miles to 153 miles in the 2019 BMW i3—which exceeds the 150-mile rating of the original 2014 i3 REx.
Simply put, there’s no longer a need for the REx.
According to BMW’s internal data, energy density will be doubled on a cell basis again by 2030.
In the meantime, BMW is planning to continue to offer the REx option for the North American market—right up until, perhaps, it could be made redundant with another battery upgrade due for the i3 around 2021. And with the future of the BMW i3 looking to be evolving toward affordability and mass-market appeal, we wouldn’t discount the option even then.
The i3 REx will be offered “for the foreseeable future,” underscored BMW of North America product communications chief Tom Plucinsky. “There’s no decision there.”
BMW still sees gas stations as important. Half of BMW sales globally will come from combustion-engine cars—including hybrids—in 2030. BMW board member for development Klaus Froehlich just over a year ago said the automaker was preparing for 85 percent of its vehicles by sales volume, globally, to still have internal combustion engines in 2030.
If energy density and batteries keep outperforming targets and expectations, as they have in the past five years, let’s hope the industry can collectively do better than that.
Nevermind the buildings we live in. The parking lots cannot be electrified because of various practical issues. The place I live in has 2000 parking spaces, and no electrical outlets for charging, because it was built before the days when EV's were a thing. And it costs a lot of money to put 'some' in, then you run into issues of how you share those spaces between different EV owners, etc. And they won't let you plug it into a regular outlet because then the building pays for the electricity.
And many cities in Asia don't have the electrical grids that can support mass electrification, and I'm sure it is the same in many places across the world with densely populated cities. So the numbers will always be limited for EV's. It's just a fact.
Last edited by ice4life; 11-30-2019 at 12:36 PM.
At the risk of being labeled a spammy troll... even Jalopnik is beginning to sour on the practicality of EVs:
I'm on vacation now and we are heading back tomorrow... but I'm already thinking of getting gas tonight to get ahead of the crowds. We can't charge from our AirBnB. This would suck
Reading what Toyota is doing, I more or less see it like the dvd to hd dvd vs blue ray deal in the mid 00s. No one really knows without a doubt where the market is going to go.
Full EVs might be great, but we could hit a point where we’re having problems with battery material mining. There’s the obvious infrastructure concerns for some localities and the question of where the electricity is coming from.
PHEVs are a good step as some have stated with smaller battery sizes, occasional extra power, and for some commuters full the chance of full EV driving for the daily commute.
Hydrogen (wether fossil fuel based or electrified water based) has the ability to possibly be a good alternative. Though there can be the same infrastructure issues as electric.
In the end, none of us really know without a doubt where this will go. Next year there may be a major shift in ICE efficiency and emissions. Or there may be a major shift in battery technology, hydrogen or even something else. Toyota looks like they’re trying to work on all forms equally and trying to cater individual markets with what works best.
Horse stable owner says no demand for automobiles. Early automobiles weren't very practical and there wasn't an infrastructure in place to support them.
Range and charging will be solved, it's just a matter of time. In the short term, range extenders, hydrogen and hybrids make sense and it's sad more aren't taking that route. In the long run capacitor and/or battery technology will advance to the point that it'll take the same about of time to charge as it does to fill up and the infrastructure will be built. The speed with which that happens will depend on whether or not we move away from subsidizing fossil fuels and move all our subsidies towards new technologies, which is the entire purpose of subsidies, not increasing the profits of an established industry.
When that happens, IC cars will stop being built, IC autos will be collectors items driven on Sundays and were all going to be ok.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Last edited by Silver_arrow12!; 11-30-2019 at 04:54 PM.
Trying to equate an almost non existent EV infrastructure to holiday gas station crowding is lol. That snit ain't happening to the degree it's an issue like nor having a place to charge is. And no, with gas the majority of people don't plan ahead because there's no need too.
You're wrong in literally ever part of your post, and I'm guessing you really don't believe what you wrote, you just want to argue. Do 5 seconds of research on how difficult early cars were to use as transportation, from lack of infrastructure, exploding, getting stuck on roads that were never designed for cars, difficulty in getting spare parts, few trained mechanics to maintain them, I cold go on for hours, but I won't because I know you really don't believe that
EV is inevitable. It's a matter of investment in technology and infrastructure.
1/10. Poor effort at trolling. You can do better than that.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Even on trips. We live in NC and vacation mostly here, SC and Ga. Sometimes we rent an SUV or mini van and you just go. There's plenty of gas stations on the way, it's a non issue.
On a family trip to Florida, we all flew but a niece and her husband drove straight from home. Trust, those two did zero planning, it's no big whoop to do in a gas vehicle.
If you don't let your tank get below half full because of where you live, appreciate that's a special circumstance that doesn't effect the rest of the populous as such.
On a personal note, of you're in the fire zone and dealing with power outages you have my sincerest sympathies. That sucks, just a terrible situation and I wish the best for those stuck in it.
Even there I would prefer a gas vehicle. I can store that snit in cans and have fuel when the power is out.
Nobody has an issue with people being proponents of EVs but fek, we went over the horse/car BS here in 2015. It's as wrong headed an argument today as it was then.
Last edited by Burnette; 11-30-2019 at 06:18 PM.