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    Thread: Are Glass Touch Screens Safe To Use While Driving?

    1. Member
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      12-01-2019 10:42 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      In my experience electronics don't age well particularly since they removed certain elements (lead) from the solder to make it more eco friendly. In particular lead free circuit boards tend to develop micro fractures as they age which interfered with the board's voltage which causes the software to usually go nuts and crash. The only reason I know about this is computers have this problem as they age. There is no reason to think it won't apply to touch screens.
      Then you're boned with any car made in the past 20+ years. I dunno what soldering methods manufacturers use in the various modules in a 'modern' car but be it wave soldered surface mounts, BGA, etc. they're gonna be there regardless of whether or not there's a screen behind it. That's not a fair criticism to level against solely the screen'd parts of a car.

      The touch screen will be subject to environmental stresses - high heat and extreme cold.
      You can say the same about any other component deployed in the interior of a car. manufacturers have taken this into consideration the same way they do any other component. Whether or not their testing is sufficient to bear out real world use cases is another story but if you trust the buttons in your car to last, you should probably trust the screens to last about as long.

      The usability is very questionable. You won't be able to adjust anything without looking at it.
      Sure you can. Does the screen not work unless it's being looked at directly? If what you meant to say is that these systems lack the secondary tactile feedback mechanisms that physical buttons do, then sure. but as I pointed out, a poorly designed HVAC/ICE stack suffers from the same problem.



      Once you know where all the buttons are on something like this w/o looking, you've got the same skill set needed to operate a touch screen w/o looking.

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    3. Geriatric Member @McMike's Avatar
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      12-01-2019 10:43 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by rickhamilton620 View Post
      I do believe that climate should be completely divorced from the touchscreen - hard buttons and knobs only.
      Me too. Same with everything else "car." That way when the screen or the interface stops working, you can still turn on the rear defroster, adjust the mirrors, seats, etc..

      Not like we can do anything to stop them.

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      12-01-2019 10:46 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by rickhamilton620 View Post
      A bunch of the implementations have haptic feedback to mitigate the lack of sensory feedback compared to a push button. Personally I'd prefer a mix of hard buttons and a touchscreen, but I'm sure with time I could get used to a jog dial.
      I think one thing the doomsdayers are glossing over is that the vast majority of these screen-heavy systems also have redundant physical controls for the most common inputs anyway. Sure there are outliers, but I think it's unfair to malign the whole trend because of some bad examples.

    5. Member gti5dr06's Avatar
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      12-01-2019 11:02 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by zmt2 View Post
      Right. Cheaper to manufacture, so cheaper to manufacture replacements. Might be more fiddly to repair an existing unit, but I doubt most folks do garage re-soldering of pot sweepers or whatever for analog/physical controls anyway.

      I'm also going to guess that with fewer moving parts and physical linkage components, there's less to wear out. You might lose more if something like the screen goes out, but failure rates will be lower, probably significantly so.

      I think whether or not something's "safer" overall is as much a function of design and usage consideration as it is the underlying mechanics. I owned this center stack for 2.5 years and still regularly got the HVAC adjustments wrong:



      one thing I have come to appreciate are programmable "bookmark" buttons like BMW uses (the modern implementation of the radio preset buttons). Most of the i3's fun and useful stuff is buried behind some menus admittedly, so having 8 presets for things like the efficiency graph/TPMS readout/traction control is really nice. Maybe that's the best of both worlds solution as such a design can be rolled out to any car across the make since the buttons are model agnostic.
      What? I can hit whatever button i need on mine without looking. The mdx OTOH is impossible since its the dual touch screen. Same thing ironically that audi copied that people are drooling over now.
      Quote Originally Posted by konigwheels View Post
      Wow, it amazes me that we have children in here that can't read a couple paragraphs. No wonder America's doing so well in education! Can't take the time to read, but sure can find the time to post. Self indulgence at it's finest.

      TL;DR should be banned and changed to ID;CR or I'm dumb, can't read.

    6. Member freedomgli's Avatar
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      12-01-2019 11:04 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by zmt2 View Post
      I think one thing the doomsdayers are glossing over is that the vast majority of these screen-heavy systems also have redundant physical controls for the most common inputs anyway. Sure there are outliers, but I think it's unfair to malign the whole trend because of some bad examples.
      Most of those “redundant physical controls” are no more than digital encoders for sending signals to the respective controller via the canbus. So their long term reliability is perhaps just as suspect as the flat screen. There are multiple kinds of redundancy and the devil’s in the details. Modern cars are meant to be removed from service and recycled after 15-20 years anyhow. No one is going to invest in the design integrity/ robustness and aggressive maintenance schedule that is required to see modern cars last any longer.

    7. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      12-01-2019 11:18 PM #31
      Honestly I have no issue with audio, nav, and non-driving functions going to a screen.

      I really do prefer separate controls for hvac, seat heaters, and vent aiming though.

    8. 12-02-2019 02:21 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by zmt2 View Post
      I think one thing the doomsdayers are glossing over is that the vast majority of these screen-heavy systems also have redundant physical controls for the most common inputs anyway. Sure there are outliers, but I think it's unfair to malign the whole trend because of some bad examples.
      For a period of time they had redundant controls but they are now eliminating them with only the screen being the only way to control it. Look at the A7 and Land Rover I posted.

    9. Member bmann's Avatar
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      12-02-2019 02:24 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      Was Matlock not on TV today? Is that why all of the Boomers are in this thread?
      Remember when people didn't look at what they were reaching for until touch screens came out?

      Quote Originally Posted by boogetyboogety View Post
      This. Talk about planned obsolescence... The entire system can and will almost certainly be compromised, if not completely disabled, due to any small glitch. Also: Can they be operated with gloves on, regardless of the material? Are they visible regardless of lighting or glare, even with polarized sunglasses? Any special cleaning or maintenance instructions? Temperature limits? You know, stuff you wouldn't have to worry about ever with mechanical switches that have worked so well for decades... Generations... More than a century...
      I have an App Radio 3, which is a touch screen, and it works with gloves on as long as they have the conductive finger tips. I was actually surprised how well Docker's gloves with Intellitouch work. Even the loose fabric in the tip of the finger will trigger the buttons on the screen, so you don't need to press at all or struggle to find just the right part of the glove that is conductive, etc.
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      12-02-2019 12:11 PM #34
      My GTI has a touch screen and real HVAC controls.
      I think this is a nice set-up.
      The touch screen handles the infotainment stuff, which for me means dialing through my SiriusXM presets or my music on my phone.
      Other than accessing music, I never really touch the screen while driving. Based on the fingerprint pattern on the screen, I spend much
      more time touching the functions or presets on the left side of the screen. That makes sense, as I have placed my favorite presets in
      closer "reach". I can hit those "buttons" easily and without looking away from the road.

      For those of you who have problems with the existence of screens, what exactly are y'all doing on your screens that they're so distracting?

      Let's not forget why we ended up with screens.
      Cars were mandated to have back-up cameras and display screens. This is good so kids, cats and dogs don't get backed over. I'm sure all of you have never backed into anything, though.
      Then we all wanted our phones to pair with our car stereo. This necessitated that your car stereo's interface needed to morph into something very similar to your phone's.
      You simply cannot manage 50 phone numbers, hundreds of satellite radio stations, and thousands of songs, with only a tune and volume knob and a little black & white LCD screen.

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      12-02-2019 12:34 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by zmt2 View Post

      Sure you can. Does the screen not work unless it's being looked at directly? If what you meant to say is that these systems lack the secondary tactile feedback mechanisms that physical buttons do, then sure. but as I pointed out, a poorly designed HVAC/ICE stack suffers from the same problem.

      [IMG]Alfa 164[/IMG]

      Once you know where all the buttons are on something like this w/o looking, you've got the same skill set needed to operate a touch screen w/o looking.
      Even in the Alfa 164, which is a near-worst case example, you can physically feel which row of buttons you're on, and which column too. Would that take memorizing? Absolutely, but a touchscreen, even with fake feedback, provides 0 reference points to determine where you're at.

      That's not to mention two other points.

      Screens are kinda ugly, and interior designs with be even more lookalike with everyone featuring a 10" screen in the middle.

      I, uhh, like touching things? I enjoy tactility, whether that be a key in the ignition, or a nice click when adjusting something.

    12. Member Alpha-3's Avatar
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      12-02-2019 01:16 PM #36
      Anything, and I mean ANYTHING that causes a driver to take their eyes off the road for an instant, is a tragedy waiting to happen. Distracted driving by the cellphone craze is bad enough, causing a lot of accidents and fatalities. Having cars with touchscreens and no button redundancy is going to add to the problem.
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      12-02-2019 01:47 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-3 View Post
      Anything, and I mean ANYTHING that causes a driver to take their eyes off the road for an instant, is a tragedy waiting to happen. Distracted driving by the cellphone craze is bad enough, causing a lot of accidents and fatalities. Having cars with touchscreens and no button redundancy is going to add to the problem.
      That sounds like an argument for eliminating ANY radio or heating controls since you still have to look down regardless of the buttons being mechanical or capacitive.
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      12-02-2019 01:48 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      I have noticed that some of the premium brands (Audi, Porsche, Land Rover, others) have totally replaced the switches with glass touch panels. Both on the console and up on the dash.

      I am thinking no and here is why. There is not tactile feedback indicating which button you are hitting, you have to look down at it to see what you are hitting.

      How is this any different than looking down at your smartphone?

      Or am I totally off on this?
      I think you’re just old.

      Generation Z can drive, use the touch screen, text, and smoke pot at the same time.

    15. 12-02-2019 01:56 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by someguy123 View Post
      I think you’re just old.

      Generation Z can Uber, text, and vape at the same time.
      FTFY.

      The gloves thing is frustrating. The touch screen in my wife's HRV can't be used with gloves.
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      12-02-2019 02:31 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by bmann View Post
      That sounds like an argument for eliminating ANY radio or heating controls since you still have to look down regardless of the buttons being mechanical or capacitive.
      There are 2 types of people in this world.

      People who look down to use their radio/hvac controls

      and

      liars




    17. Member Alpha-3's Avatar
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      12-02-2019 02:35 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by bmann View Post
      That sounds like an argument for eliminating ANY radio or heating controls since you still have to look down regardless of the buttons being mechanical or capacitive.
      No I don't. Radio controls and many other functions are on my steering wheel. I know what button does what, I can manipulate those and I NEVER need to take my eyes off the road. I set my HVAC before I drive and leave it that way. How many times do you have to change that?? Even then, again, it's maybe one or two buttons. I know where the button is and can manipulate it without taking my eyes off the road. I like living too much.

      Couple days ago here a woman was busily texting someone her dinner plans, instead of watching what she was doing. She rear-ended another car that had stopped, and said stopped, rear-ended car jumped forward and killed a pedestrian walking in front of it.

      Another guy out on Miami Beach ran over a cyclist and killed them because he dropped his ringing phone and was searching for it while driving. Then he left the scene, but thank god they caught his sorry miserable ass.

      It only takes a second. Pay attention to your goddam driving, keep your eyes on the road. /rant
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      12-02-2019 03:21 PM #42
      It's honestly not as bad as you all make it out to be.

      I've had my Q8 for a little over a week now, and I'm already used to the screens. I generally don't fiddle with settings anyway, since I have things set automatically (ergonomics, heated seats and steering wheel, streaming music, climate control) or I adjust it when I first start the car. I'm still learning the system, but like most new technologies, it's a lot less intimidating with a few days of practice.

    19. 12-02-2019 03:31 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-3 View Post
      I set my HVAC before I drive and leave it that way. How many times do you have to change that??
      Clearly you've never met my wife or her sister.

    20. Senior Member A.Wilder's Avatar
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      12-02-2019 03:36 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      they can remote start it with Alexa.
      my wife would be sold.
      signatures are annoying, right?

    21. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      12-02-2019 03:51 PM #45
      This thread

      Last edited by Cabin Pics; 12-02-2019 at 04:02 PM.
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      12-02-2019 03:57 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by masa8888 View Post
      It's honestly not as bad as you all make it out to be.

      I've had my Q8 for a little over a week now, and I'm already used to the screens. I generally don't fiddle with settings anyway, since I have things set automatically (ergonomics, heated seats and steering wheel, streaming music, climate control) or I adjust it when I first start the car. I'm still learning the system, but like most new technologies, it's a lot less intimidating with a few days of practice.
      Of course it isn't.

      Reponsive high resolution 8"+ touchscreens with snappy software are not hard to use. Voice is great too.

      But of course all systems are not created equal, so the existence of any feature in a modern car takes a back seat to how well the manufacturer executes that feature.

    23. 12-02-2019 04:35 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      This thread

      Maybe its time to eat a tide pod or two?

    24. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      12-02-2019 04:45 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      Maybe its time to eat a tide pod or two?
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      12-02-2019 04:59 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-3 View Post
      No I don't. Radio controls and many other functions are on my steering wheel. I know what button does what, I can manipulate those and I NEVER need to take my eyes off the road. I set my HVAC before I drive and leave it that way. How many times do you have to change that?? Even then, again, it's maybe one or two buttons. I know where the button is and can manipulate it without taking my eyes off the road. I like living too much.

      Couple days ago here a woman was busily texting someone her dinner plans, instead of watching what she was doing. She rear-ended another car that had stopped, and said stopped, rear-ended car jumped forward and killed a pedestrian walking in front of it.

      Another guy out on Miami Beach ran over a cyclist and killed them because he dropped his ringing phone and was searching for it while driving. Then he left the scene, but thank god they caught his sorry miserable ass.

      It only takes a second. Pay attention to your goddam driving, keep your eyes on the road. /rant
      "NEVER?" Hilarious. I got my DL in January 1982 and have been taking my eyes off the road multiple times each drive for a few seconds here and there, every single day since. No accidents...ever.

      Responsible drivers can take their eyes off the road for 2-3 seconds in ok conditions, then refocus as needed. My Audi has both screen and traditional buttons and you couldn't set the front/rear window defrost without looking down in 10 tries. I need to look down to find and select that, as an example. Sure, a lot of people drive distracted and it causes a lot of accidents. That doesn't mean nobody can or should take their eyes off for a second ever.

    26. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      12-02-2019 05:05 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by tbvvw View Post
      "NEVER?" Hilarious. I got my DL in January 1982 and have been taking my eyes off the road multiple times each drive for a few seconds here and there, every single day since. No accidents...ever.

      Responsible drivers can take their eyes off the road for 2-3 seconds in ok conditions, then refocus as needed. My Audi has both screen and traditional buttons and you couldn't set the front/rear window defrost without looking down in 10 tries. I need to look down to find and select that, as an example. Sure, a lot of people drive distracted and it causes a lot of accidents. That doesn't mean nobody can or should take their eyes off for a second ever.
      This is TCL.

      We are all driving at 11/tents 100% of the time, driving with such professionalism allows for not even a tenth of a seconds distraction. If you blink, you lose.
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