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    Thread: Ford workers break their silence on faulty transmissions: 'Everybody knew' [Fiesta, Focus]

    1. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 04:34 PM #1
      Hopefully not rozap


      https://www.freep.com/in-depth/money...ms/4243091002/


      They knew the truth and kept quiet.

      Their secret wasn’t a secret at all in engineering, product development, research, design or manufacturing within Ford Motor Co., say seven current and former employees who worked to develop and launch the Fiesta and Focus cars that would become known for defective automatic transmissions.

      he engineer said: “We’d raise our hands and be told, ‘Don’t be naysayers.’ We got strange comments. It seemed the ship had sailed. After that, if you ask questions, you’re accused of mutiny, so you put your head down and make it work. Good people tried to make it work. But you can’t violate the laws of physics. It’s a mechanical catastrophe.”

      He was referring to the DPS6 dual-clutch "PowerShift" transmission used in 2 million Focus and Fiesta cars sold this decade that is the subject of massive litigation and a federal criminal fraud probe.

      "It was cheap to make and cheap to assemble," the engineer said, but because the DPS6 used "dry" clutch technology, it couldn't cool itself, ensuring failures in real-world use.

      ..rest of article

      I know this transmission has been talked about before on here so it's no surprise, but I can see tons of lawsuits now. Ford's gonna have to poney up - (pun intended) some serious cash to replace/fix these.

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    3. Member 1Point8TDan's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 04:40 PM #2
      You'd think risk management would have calculated the costs, and maybe they still be better off than going back and redesigning it from the start.

    4. Member Shmi's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 04:43 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by 1Point8TDan View Post
      You'd think risk management would have calculated the costs, and maybe they still be better off than going back and redesigning it from the start.
      Hopefully that calculation includes the cost of lost sales from the tons of customers who swore off your cars after you shipped knowingly faulty equipment and kept a lid on it.

      In any case, that's ****ty. Thanks, Ford!

    5. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 04:54 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Shmi View Post
      Hopefully that calculation includes the cost of lost sales from the tons of customers who swore off your cars after you shipped knowingly faulty equipment and kept a lid on it.

      In any case, that's ****ty. Thanks, Ford!
      yea the PR backlash is going to suck

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      12-05-2019 05:02 PM #5
      Yeah my mom bought a brand new Fiesta maybe a couple years ago? Maybe a tad longer I forget. Within 6 months the transmission was slipping horribly. Dealer said the part would be back ordered for another 6 months or so and to just drive it with the failing transmission until then.

      Man it drove like crap especially when going from first to second, that was the big issue with hers. She got it fixed, got rid of it, and went back to Mazda (previous car was a Mazda she had for 15 years or so.)

    7. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 05:13 PM #6
      This is pretty terrible. I guess Alan Mullaly didn't really get the culture change he was hoping for accomplished, as I remember his big thing was not to sweep problems under the rug but to bring them out front for discussion. The 2012 book American Icon was certainly a good read, but unfortunately appears to be an incomplete picture.

    8. 12-05-2019 05:18 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Shmi View Post
      Hopefully that calculation includes the cost of lost sales from the tons of customers who swore off your cars after you shipped knowingly faulty equipment and kept a lid on it.
      They had American Honda as consultants on this project.

    9. Member Fe2O3's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 05:27 PM #8
      It's good every now and then for people to see how corporations regard the average person's safety and financial well being. Design might cause a safety issue and/or financial and inconvenience hardship to a lot of people? Bah, we still made a profit, who cares?
      Quote Originally Posted by phryxis View Post
      sprayed it on, waited some time, and proceeded to go at it with a scraper, some pliers, and a lot of f-ing hard work.

    10. Member steelgatorb8's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 05:28 PM #9
      Really good article. Thanks for sharing.

      The culture at Ford sounds similarly toxic to other corporate environments I've been a part of. I really don't doubt the sources explanation of what actually led to this garbage. Love how the one engineer dropped the "politics" bomb in the one email. If he typed that into an email it must have been pretty bad.

      Another thing I wanted to point out was that the senior people that signed off on this clearly defective transmission and who drove the "Politics" and culture of masking defects are most likely not with the company anymore. I'm willing to bet my next paycheck they will never be held accountable for their actions.

      One good thing that might come of this is considering the number of powerpoint slides shown as documentation proof of the transmission issues I truly hope that leads to less powerpoint presentations being created in the modern corporate environment. Maybe them being used against a corporation in a legal setting will kill them off once and for all. I can only pray for this to happen. Please please please.
      Last edited by steelgatorb8; 12-05-2019 at 06:02 PM.

    11. Member compy222's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 05:30 PM #10


      i mean, how could have anyone known these things were having systematic failures and problems...
      Quote Originally Posted by capsaicin View Post
      AP1 S2000? I can not in good conscience talk you out of that. May your slip angle be great and your bed not be the couch!

    12. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 05:43 PM #11
      ^ holy crap

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      12-05-2019 06:00 PM #12
      Yeah, it's not a great time for this investigation to come out. Combine it with the very public problems about the Aviator/Explorer launch, and it would scare reasonably informed people away from a FoMoCo product.

      I know: I decided today not to buy an Explorer or Aviator to replace my Durango.

      I got to spend some time with Mullally, and I have no doubt he meant well. But habits in upper-middle management there die hard: Raj Nair was a nasty, combative piece-of-work in the dealings I had with him during my CR days. One got the feeling that he didn't like to be told "no."

      Tom

    14. Member Tokyosmash's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 06:06 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by absoluteczech View Post
      yea the PR backlash is going to suck
      There was literally already a class action lawsuit over this, it’s well known.

    15. Member steelgatorb8's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 06:08 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by mutcth View Post
      I got to spend some time with Mullally, and I have no doubt he meant well. But habits in upper-middle management there die hard: Raj Nair was a nasty, combative piece-of-work in the dealings I had with him during my CR days. One got the feeling that he didn't like to be told "no."

      Tom
      https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ord/110684770/

      Yeah I'd say your description fits.

    16. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 06:09 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Tokyosmash View Post
      There was literally already a class action lawsuit over this, it’s well known.
      Yea the article stated there was adding an additional 600k cars to an extended warranty they offered because of it.

    17. Senior Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 06:19 PM #16
      Noooooo?!?!?!?!?!

      Ford?????

      Noooooo.....

      Not the same Ford that figured it would be cheaper to allow people to die being rear-ended in Pintos than to fix the problem?

      Not THAT Ford?
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

    18. Member MGQ's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 06:22 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by steelgatorb8 View Post
      One good thing that might come of this is considering the number of powerpoint slides shown as documentation proof of the transmission issues I truly hope that leads to less powerpoint presentations being created in the modern corporate environment. Maybe them being used against a corporation in a legal setting will kill them off once and for all. I can only pray for this to happen. Please please please.
      After this thread is over, I'll convert it and email you the deck, thanks for joining us on this one.


      Yeah, it's not a great time for this investigation to come out....

      Tom
      Ouch- from what I've read I've had the same impression
      This is only temporary, unless it works. - Red Green

    19. Member steelgatorb8's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 06:24 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by MGQ View Post
      After this thread is over, I'll convert it and email you the deck, thanks for joining us on this.
      Sorry I was responding to you but my phone was on mute. Apologies.



      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    20. 12-05-2019 06:25 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      Not the same Ford that figured it would be cheaper to allow people to die being rear-ended in Pintos than to fix the problem?
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

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      12-05-2019 06:56 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Shmi View Post
      Hopefully that calculation includes the cost of lost sales from the tons of customers who swore off your cars after you shipped knowingly faulty equipment and kept a lid on it.
      That includes my family. My dad bought a brand new Focus at the end of 2012. About 10k miles later, he had to take it in as the transmission felt like it was slipping when changing gear. One of the seals had failed and caused the dry clutch transmission to turn into a wet clutch transmission. I remember the tech taking us back to where the car was and showing us the issue. He noted that repairing Focus transmissions was his full time job and that the parts were on back order. Even though the repair ended up taking several weeks, Ford refused to pay for a loaner car during that time.

      Within a few weeks of getting the car back, it started intermittently rattling when changing gears. It was traded in on an excellent Mazda 3.

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      12-05-2019 07:09 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by steelgatorb8 View Post
      https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ord/110684770/

      Yeah I'd say your description fits.
      Ooh. I forgot about that. When that came out, I remember thinking "karma's a b****." He ambushed my boss and I during a visit to Dearborn. (The best part; you could see the engineers sitting on the edge of the jammed-full conference room nodding and agreeing with us.)

      I try to be empathetic; I feel bad for the GM execs I know who got tangentially caught in the ignition switch fiasco, or the multiple FCA execs left go after being tasked with the near-impossible task of improving quality there. But no love lost in Nair's case.

      Tom

    23. Member 1Point8TDan's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 07:29 PM #22
      Oh that might be why they offered me an F150 with a sticker of $64k plus taxes and fees for $51k all in? Plus 2.99% financing for 72 months.

    24. Senior Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 07:45 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by 1Point8TDan View Post
      Oh that might be why they offered me an F150 with a sticker of $64k plus taxes and fees for $51k all in? Plus 2.99% financing for 72 months.
      No, they did that because they offered you a $51K all-in truck with an artificially inflated MSRP.
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

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      12-05-2019 08:31 PM #24
      Come to think of it, both times I shopped for a Ford product, the salesman sat us in a manual transmission product instead.

      In 2012 we called to book a Ford fiesta test drive, asked for an automatic over the phone and upon arrival we were told all they have is a manual, so we tried that, and then the salesman priced out an auto. We walked out and leased a 2012 Scion IQ.

      Same thing happened in 2016 when Scion lease was ending. Called to book a test drive for an auto Focus SE, we get there, and were told all they had was a manual. We test drove that, salesman priced out an auto, we walked out and leased a RAV4 hybrid.

      Coincidence or was it known even at dealer and sales level that those transmissions were trash as far back as 2012?

      Looks like I dodged a bullet, twice.

    26. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
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      12-05-2019 08:53 PM #25
      Our company uses post-facelift Focuses as sales fleet cars, at least until they're all slowly replaced with Ecosports. The top salesperson has like 136k miles on hers and I had to drive it recently. Ooooooh boy is that transmission a mess. They were bad when they were new, but they also do not age. It was barely drivable.

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