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    Thread: F80/2 M3/4 - How are these cars holding up?

    1. Member GLI Dan's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 10:37 AM #1
      E46 M cars needed routine and expensive valve jobs and the SMG transmissions were not held in the warmest regards.

      E9x M cars needed rod bearings and although the engine was a gem, it was highstrung and needed more attention then your typical car.

      I'm about a year out from full blown car shopping, but the more I look around the more it looks like a lightly used M, RS, or P car is going to be my play rather than getting something new. The F chassis M cars are the first to have a turbo charged 6, I would hope that means the S55 engine didn't have to be as highstrung as the S65 and S54 predecessors before it and thus may be a little easier long term. However, these cars have also become vastly more complex and electronic, whether that be the idrive system or the water pump.

      I'm no virgin when it comes to BMW maintenance having owned my e46 330ci from 75K miles to 154K miles, and an E90 335i (N55) for a year and 22K miles. TCL lend me your knowledge, anecdotal or personal experience (I know we have at least a few owners in here). Obviously these cars are still newer, but any longer term info is appreciated. Weak points, strengths, give it to me.
      Quote Originally Posted by DzlDub View Post
      Cars are ****ing awesome, anyone who doesn't want a car is a communist.
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    3. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 11:41 AM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by GLI Dan View Post
      E9x M cars needed rod bearings and although the engine was a gem, it was highstrung and needed more attention then your typical car.
      I won't argue about the rod bearings, but I would argue about them needing more attention than a regular car, which isn't really true. Many people who own these have very few issues with their cars. Other than perhaps being a bit more aware of fluid changes on this car than others I've owned, this is definitely an oil change and gas type of vehicle. I'm 4.5 yrs into owning mine and it requires nothing out of the ordinary.


      I'm no virgin when it comes to BMW maintenance having owned my e46 330ci from 75K miles to 154K miles, and an E90 335i (N55) for a year and 22K miles. TCL lend me your knowledge, anecdotal or personal experience (I know we have at least a few owners in here). Obviously these cars are still newer, but any longer term info is appreciated. Weak points, strengths, give it to me.
      Although I like my car better than the F-series cars, I still think the soon-to-be replaced F8X cars are great vehicles and very competent at high speeds. The chatter I've heard is that they are well built vehicles without any crazy design deficiencies, though I do seem to recall that there were driveshaft problems with at least the early cars. No idea what ever happened with that, but I'm guessing it was eventually worked out. ALthough there are a handful of owners here, I would recommend going to the M3 forums and look through what sort of problems people are posting up. It won't be hard to identify any of the controversial problem areas. After about an hour of looking through the Jeep forums, I found the primary issues with the Jeep SRT.

    4. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 11:49 AM #3
      my F80 is doing pretty well. got another year on the lease. it's snowing here in NYC and i'm going to definitely drive it to work today
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    5. Sausage King of Chicago Abe Froman's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 11:52 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      Although I like my car better than the F-series cars, I still think the soon-to-be replaced F8X cars are great vehicles and very competent at high speeds. The chatter I've heard is that they are well built vehicles without any crazy design deficiencies, though I do seem to recall that there were driveshaft problems with at least the early cars. No idea what ever happened with that, but I'm guessing it was eventually worked out.
      Great car, I've got 51k miles on my '15 and I'm very happy with it.


      That said, my carbon fiber driveshaft exploded and was replaced under warranty. I've also gone through a valve cover gasket, but that should come as no surprise to anyone who's ever owned a 6cyl BMW.

      The factory alignment settings will destroy the inside edge of your tires about 25% faster than you'll expect, so plan for rubber a bit more often. It's thirsty AF if you like the loud pedal, and the loud cold startup is annoying, IMO.

      If you get a facelifted '16+ you'll have a few more features in the iDrive but overall not much of a real difference between model years.


      Oh, and be prepared for every downpipe/exhaust/flash-tuned 335i or 340i (idiotic M-badging optional) to want to race you all the time. You know--because they're "basically the same car"
      I unbanned Patrikman.

      I also originally banned Zuk & JIMP.

      Then I got demoted.

    6. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 11:57 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Abe Froman View Post
      Great car, I've got 51k miles on my '15 and I'm very happy with it.
      Although I'm not the OP, I'll ask anyway since you have an early car. Thoughts on a standard M3/4 versus comp package car?

    7. Member fknlo's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 12:01 PM #6
      Crank hubs can spin but it's rare and seems to be most prevalent on heavily modified DCT cars. It seems like most crank hub failures don't lead to total engine failure either. The charge cooler can leak and necessitate replacement. Those seem to be the biggest common issues with a bunch of other minor things thrown in. The overall reliability is what got me to grab one.

    8. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 12:15 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Abe Froman View Post
      Great car, I've got 51k miles on my '15 and I'm very happy with it.


      That said, my carbon fiber driveshaft exploded and was replaced under warranty. I've also gone through a valve cover gasket, but that should come as no surprise to anyone who's ever owned a 6cyl BMW.
      Did the invoice say what the cost would have been or what is the cost of a new driveshaft if it happened out of warranty?

    9. Sausage King of Chicago Abe Froman's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 12:29 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      Although I'm not the OP, I'll ask anyway since you have an early car. Thoughts on a standard M3/4 versus comp package car?
      I already think my suspension is at the limit of what I consider comfortable, so I don't care about the differences with the ZCP car. I also don't care for black trim/badges. The extra power is negligible, and once the car's out of warranty it's getting a flash tune (which gives the same ultimate output regardless of starting point).

      Also: the ZCP seats look cool, but they don't have lumbar support, and the Sausage King is getting old



      Quote Originally Posted by absoluteczech View Post
      Did the invoice say what the cost would have been or what is the cost of a new driveshaft if it happened out of warranty?
      $6,000

      But mine was part of a narrow VIN-range that was under recall, so even if it'd happened later, I'd have been fine.

      Still--they phased-out the carbon driveshafts in later models in favor of a steel unit (with a center support bearing), though BMW claim it's not because of any issues with carbon fiber
      I unbanned Patrikman.

      I also originally banned Zuk & JIMP.

      Then I got demoted.

    10. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 12:41 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Abe Froman View Post

      $6,000

      But mine was part of a narrow VIN-range that was under recall, so even if it'd happened later, I'd have been fine.

      Still--they phased-out the carbon driveshafts in later models in favor of a steel unit (with a center support bearing), though BMW claim it's not because of any issues with carbon fiber
      Ah ok. Do you know when they switched to the steel units? Was it after LCI?

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      12-11-2019 12:46 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by fknlo View Post
      Crank hubs can spin but it's rare and seems to be most prevalent on heavily modified DCT cars. It seems like most crank hub failures don't lead to total engine failure either. The charge cooler can leak and necessitate replacement. Those seem to be the biggest common issues with a bunch of other minor things thrown in. The overall reliability is what got me to grab one.
      This is the only thing I've heard about them with any regularity. if I do decide to replace the 1er with a non-jeep, it would be an F80 in a cool color and the 513M wheels. They're such good cars with most of what I love in late model BMWs. I also think that unless they really screw up the new ones that these will get E36'd by history and will have relatively depressed short term values. just a hunch though.

      edit: now that I think about it my friend's dinan M4 just had to have its charge cooler replaced, but I'm guessing that's because the tune is pushing a lot more PSI and it's also tracked regularly.
      Last edited by zmt2; 12-11-2019 at 12:50 PM.

    12. Member GLI Dan's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 01:10 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      I won't argue about the rod bearings, but I would argue about them needing more attention than a regular car, which isn't really true. Many people who own these have very few issues with their cars. Other than perhaps being a bit more aware of fluid changes on this car than others I've owned, this is definitely an oil change and gas type of vehicle. I'm 4.5 yrs into owning mine and it requires nothing out of the ordinary.


      Although I like my car better than the F-series cars, I still think the soon-to-be replaced F8X cars are great vehicles and very competent at high speeds. The chatter I've heard is that they are well built vehicles without any crazy design deficiencies, though I do seem to recall that there were driveshaft problems with at least the early cars. No idea what ever happened with that, but I'm guessing it was eventually worked out. ALthough there are a handful of owners here, I would recommend going to the M3 forums and look through what sort of problems people are posting up. It won't be hard to identify any of the controversial problem areas. After about an hour of looking through the Jeep forums, I found the primary issues with the Jeep SRT.
      Don't take my comments about the e9x as negative or trying to blow it out of proportion. The only reason I'm not immediately just narrowing my search down to an E9x car is that I don't want to be purchasing and dailying a car of that age as my only vehicle, not to say its ancient, just not quite new enough for my sole vehicle given my preferences and life circumstances. Otherwise, that screaming v8 is something I very badly want in my garage.



      On another note, thanks for the info so far, and the additional questions were good as well. In particular the Comp v. non-comp question. Along those lines, I recall reading about BMW changing the tune of the vehicle at LCI which in effect smoothed out the power band. Was this software update applied to pre-LCI cars?

      Is there any must have item from the LCI cars that isn't on the pre-lci cars? And is there any must have option in general for these vehicles?

      Personally, although I love the look of the Comp wheels, the rubber band tires and thought of cleaning those wheels makes me think the meatiness of the tires on the non-comp wheels is something to be valued.
      Quote Originally Posted by DzlDub View Post
      Cars are ****ing awesome, anyone who doesn't want a car is a communist.
      Disclaimer: Generally, I strongly dislike people.
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      12-11-2019 01:20 PM #12
      reading through this thread....don't buy a modern BMW off of warranty...got it.

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      12-11-2019 01:25 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by absoluteczech View Post
      Ah ok. Do you know when they switched to the steel units? Was it after LCI?
      They switched to have room for the OPF required for the European cars. 11/2017 builds and newer have the steel driveshaft.
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    15. Member gti5dr06's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 03:48 PM #14
      Im aware of the stock exhaust note change which was 16 i think. Per the savage geese review they also messed with the steering apparently in the LCI
      Quote Originally Posted by konigwheels View Post
      Wow, it amazes me that we have children in here that can't read a couple paragraphs. No wonder America's doing so well in education! Can't take the time to read, but sure can find the time to post. Self indulgence at it's finest.

      TL;DR should be banned and changed to ID;CR or I'm dumb, can't read.

    16. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 04:00 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by GLI Dan View Post
      Don't take my comments about the e9x as negative or trying to blow it out of proportion. The only reason I'm not immediately just narrowing my search down to an E9x car is that I don't want to be purchasing and dailying a car of that age as my only vehicle, not to say its ancient, just not quite new enough for my sole vehicle given my preferences and life circumstances. Otherwise, that screaming v8 is something I very badly want in my garage.
      My reason for responding to the initial portion of your post is not because I think you should buy an e9x M3 (or that it's the best M car[even though it obviously is,hehehe]), but because I have noticed that internet banter often dismisses vehicles not out of reality but out of unsubstantiated fears of owning certain cars. I can't speak of every "problem" car, but I have owned several that would fit into this category and have never had significant issues. I like to take the opportunity to provide a different POV when I can point out an actual ownership experience that isn't the typical nightmare that people typically write about.

      Nothing wrong with preferring an F8x over any previous gen M3, FYI. We don't all have to like or want the same thing. This is why spending time on model-specific forums is so valuable, more so than what you find on my general forums like this. You have a lot more combined ownership experience and that's where most of the subject matter experts reside.

    17. Member fknlo's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 04:01 PM #16
      I wouldn't fret about getting a '15 without some of the electronic updates as you can have all that stuff coded in. At some point I'm going to get the CS versions of MDM/steering/differential done.

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      12-11-2019 04:07 PM #17
      If a coupe is OK, why not an M2 or M240i? I seriously considered an M4 for a while and the further I got down that path the more I realized the main thing it added for me over the 2-series was price. Unless you really want the Carbon roof or Adaptive M suspension that is.

    19. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 04:43 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
      They switched to have room for the OPF required for the European cars. 11/2017 builds and newer have the steel driveshaft.

    20. Member GLI Dan's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 05:39 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      My reason for responding to the initial portion of your post is not because I think you should buy an e9x M3 (or that it's the best M car[even though it obviously is,hehehe]), but because I have noticed that internet banter often dismisses vehicles not out of reality but out of unsubstantiated fears of owning certain cars. I can't speak of every "problem" car, but I have owned several that would fit into this category and have never had significant issues. I like to take the opportunity to provide a different POV when I can point out an actual ownership experience that isn't the typical nightmare that people typically write about.

      Nothing wrong with preferring an F8x over any previous gen M3, FYI. We don't all have to like or want the same thing. This is why spending time on model-specific forums is so valuable, more so than what you find on my general forums like this. You have a lot more combined ownership experience and that's where most of the subject matter experts reside.
      I hear ya, we're on the same page, most issues are overblown. But I still know how a ~10 year old BMW can nickle and dime you with silly things that simply take time, money, and effort I don't have excess of to expend. It'll be nothing catastrophic but one week I'll drop it off for a valve cover gasket, then two weeks later I need a new taillight because 1 led bulb burnt out but you can't replace the bulb. Little things like that, and unfortunately I don't have time or space to wrench on my vehicles.

      Quote Originally Posted by fknlo View Post
      I wouldn't fret about getting a '15 without some of the electronic updates as you can have all that stuff coded in. At some point I'm going to get the CS versions of MDM/steering/differential done.
      Please do tell me more of what updates/coding can be done, and how.

      Quote Originally Posted by ghost03 View Post
      If a coupe is OK, why not an M2 or M240i? I seriously considered an M4 for a while and the further I got down that path the more I realized the main thing it added for me over the 2-series was price. Unless you really want the Carbon roof or Adaptive M suspension that is.
      Well...first off, a coupe is "ok." It's not the preference, and to be frank, if I wound up going that direction, you hit the nail on the head and an M2C would likely be the choice over an M4. Still though, at least for the M2C, it is going to be a lot of the same drivetrain and I'd imagine problems would overlap. That said, M3 is the preference as I use my backseat often to hang my suit jacket, drop my brief case in the foot well, etc. However, I've also looked into M240i's, the value proposition is impossible to ignore, there are 2017-2018 cars with sub 30k miles available in the $33-$37K range right around me, but I'm a sucker for flared arches and I'd like to have a full blown M-car this time around. Call it an automotive bucket list item.

      Also, on the topic of M2's, a co-worker just purchased a non-comp M2 this year. Not that it would stop me from getting an M2, but I would prefer to have something different....how frustrated he would be if I purchased a competition M2 however might be worth it.
      Last edited by GLI Dan; 12-11-2019 at 05:52 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by DzlDub View Post
      Cars are ****ing awesome, anyone who doesn't want a car is a communist.
      Disclaimer: Generally, I strongly dislike people.
      Current: 18' Infiniti Q50 Red Sport
      Prior Vehicles: 13' E92 335i M-Sport l 04' E46 330ci SMG l 04' MKIV GLI 1.8t 6spd

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      12-11-2019 05:51 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by GLI Dan View Post
      Well...first off, a coupe is "ok." It's not the preference, and to be frank, if I wound up going that direction, you hit the nail on the head and an M2C would likely be the choice over an M4. Still though, at least for the M2C, it is going to be a lot of the same drivetrain and I'd imagine problems would overlap. That said, M3 is the preference as I use my backseat often to hang my suit jacket, drop my brief case in the foot well, etc. However, I've also looked into M240i's, the value proposition is impossible to ignore, there are 2017-2018 cars with sub 30k miles available in the $33-$37K range right around me, but I'm a sucker for flared arches and I'd like to have a full blown M-car this time around. Call it an automotive bucket list item.

      Also, on the topic of M2's, a co-worker just purchased a non-comp M2 this year. Not that it would stop me from getting an M2, but I would prefer to have something different....how frustrated he would be if I purchased a competition M2 however might be worth it.
      FWIW, I'd focus on the M3 then. The only thing I really liked about the M4 over the M2 was the lower roofline which made for more swoopy-coupe styling, but overall I just had a huge sense of 'why' compared the M2. Whereas with the sedan, 'why' is obvious.

      Also, the M4 gets regular F32 rear fenders. Whereas the F80 has wide-body fenders to fit the 4-series suspension, and those look sick.

    22. Member GLI Dan's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 05:55 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by ghost03 View Post
      FWIW, I'd focus on the M3 then. The only thing I really liked about the M4 over the M2 was the lower roofline which made for more swoopy-coupe styling, but overall I just had a huge sense of 'why' compared the M2. Whereas with the sedan, 'why' is obvious.

      Also, the M4 gets regular F32 rear fenders. Whereas the F80 has wide-body fenders to fit the 4-series suspension, and those look sick.
      I plan to focus on the M3 for exactly those reasons, but it does seem that there are many more M4's available than M3's.
      Quote Originally Posted by DzlDub View Post
      Cars are ****ing awesome, anyone who doesn't want a car is a communist.
      Disclaimer: Generally, I strongly dislike people.
      Current: 18' Infiniti Q50 Red Sport
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      12-11-2019 05:56 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by GLI Dan View Post

      Please do tell me more of what updates/coding can be done, and how.
      There are a ton of ways. Thor flasher is one, there are people that can do it remotely, etc... I'm assuming it can be done yourself through ESYS but I don't actually know for sure on that one. You can find threads on bimmerpost. I haven't started seriously looking though. I might have to look at the Thor flasher option though. It's not cheap but I like having the capability myself.

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      12-11-2019 06:27 PM #23
      I love the F8X cars, but if it was me, instead of an used one for the same kind of money, I'd rather go with a new 2020 G20 M340i, possibly less extreme & autotragic only but with virtually the same acceleration numbers. 0-60mph in 3.9s.

    25. Member GLI Dan's Avatar
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      12-11-2019 06:50 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by BlakeV View Post
      I love the F8X cars, but if it was me, instead of an used one for the same kind of money, I'd rather go with a new 2020 G20 M340i, possibly less extreme & autotragic only but with virtually the same acceleration numbers. 0-60mph in 3.9s.
      I agree with you for the warranty and peace of mind, but used F8x cars are in the 40-50K range for CPO dealer cars, and they get cheaper for BHPH/private sellers with higher mileage cars. An M340i on the other hand is $60K every day. It's on my list of testdrives, but spending that kind of money on a regular 3 series just doesn't sit right with me. Moreover, I drove the 330i at BMW's event that they do around the cone course, it handled well enough but did nothing else to make me want the car. I sat in an M340i the other day at a dealer and it just doesn't feel like the car is worth the money from a fit and finish perspective. My E92 had the nappa oyster leather and was beautiful inside and overall could justify its ~$55K sticker in 2013 when new, the M340i might pack more performance, but everything you interact with feels miles cheaper than the E92 I had. In all honestly, I got out of the car feeling that my Infiniti's interior was as good, if not better...which is not impressive. I'd call it "nice" but not BMW money nice.
      Quote Originally Posted by DzlDub View Post
      Cars are ****ing awesome, anyone who doesn't want a car is a communist.
      Disclaimer: Generally, I strongly dislike people.
      Current: 18' Infiniti Q50 Red Sport
      Prior Vehicles: 13' E92 335i M-Sport l 04' E46 330ci SMG l 04' MKIV GLI 1.8t 6spd

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      12-11-2019 06:53 PM #25
      Funny you should ask- just saw this yesterday



      BMW decided the major point of engine failure for this generation would be the connection between the crank, oil pump and timing gear. Nice one

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