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    Thread: Automatic high beams....is this a new trend?

    1. Member freedomgli's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 11:38 AM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by focusgroup1 View Post
      That sounds like a frightening and miserable world. I hope you are wrong.
      Adapt or die is the name of the game. There’s no going back now.

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    3. Geriatric Member PJA's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 11:45 AM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      With the urbanization of America, I find this conclusion to be absolute BS.
      The ONLY time I need my high beams in a metropolitan area littered with streetlights is when I'm flashing some nitwit who has had their own high beams on since last November.

      Rural drivers are pretty good at turning on their high beams when conditions warrant, and are much better at turning them off all by themselves.
      Hey man, I know we’ve both been on here for a long time, but this is kind of a ridiculous series of anecdotal statements.

    4. Member chois's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 12:11 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by PJA View Post
      Hey man, I know we’ve both been on here for a long time, but this is kind of a ridiculous series of anecdotal statements.
      Really?
      I'd say the statement is closer to truth than not.
      I see more cars every year driving around with highs or no lights on in urban settings.
      In rural settings where people actually need to use the lights and the highs, I don't see it often at all.
      Chris
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    5. 02-14-2020 12:12 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
      Adapt or die is the name of the game. There’s no going back now.
      Sounds more like assimilate or die to me, thanks but I'll fight.



    6. Member IJM's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 12:12 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      With the urbanization of America, I find this conclusion to be absolute BS.
      The ONLY time I need my high beams in a metropolitan area littered with streetlights is when I'm flashing some nitwit who has had their own high beams on since last November.

      Rural drivers are pretty good at turning on their high beams when conditions warrant, and are much better at turning them off all by themselves.
      Can't say I disagree with any of this. To address the comment above, douchey driving in rural areas tends to be less apparent if only because there just aren't as many interactions with other drivers.

      Quote Originally Posted by chois
      Really?
      I'd say the statement is closer to truth than not.
      I see more cars every year driving around with highs or no lights on in urban settings.
      In rural settings where people actually need to use the lights and the highs, I don't see it often at all.


      Exactly. It's much easier to tell if your lights are off or your high beams are on when driving on a dark road.
      Last edited by IJM; 02-14-2020 at 12:15 PM.

    7. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 12:17 PM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by PJA View Post
      Hey man, I know we’ve both been on here for a long time, but this is kind of a ridiculous series of anecdotal statements.
      Which part is anecdotal?

      The part about urbanization? That's a fact.
      The part about metro areas being so lit up that one could (not necessarily should) drive around with no headlights at all and still manage to see where they're going? That's also a fact.
      The part about the existence of urban idiots driving around with their high beams on permanently? I see at least a dozen of these people each day on my 20 mile commute. That may not seem like a large number of people doing it, but it resluts in a large number of people being blinded by it.

      The apple shaped dent in my rear door didn't come from anecdote. It came from a PG county douchebag who got offended when I flashed him for driving around with his high beams on blinding everyone on the beltway, so he threw his lunch at my car.


      Anecdotal, my ass.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
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    8. Geriatric Member PJA's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 12:19 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by chois View Post
      Really?
      I'd say the statement is closer to truth than not.
      I see more cars every year driving around with highs or no lights on in urban settings.
      In rural settings where people actually need to use the lights and the highs, I don't see it often at all.
      I haven't used my highbeams in a year, but it still doesn't negate methodical research by vetted institutions, right? There are over 200 million licensed drivers in the country and over 3/4's of the paved roads in the US are unlit. Why would what Tom said be "BS"?

    9. Geriatric Member PJA's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 12:20 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      Which part is anecdotal?

      The part about urbanization? That's a fact.
      The part about metro areas being so lit up that one could (not necessarily should) drive around with no headlights at all and still manage to see where they're going? That's also a fact.
      The part about the existence of urban idiots driving around with their high beams on permanently? I see at least a dozen of these people each day on my 20 mile commute. That may not seem like a large number of people doing it, but it resluts in a large number of people being blinded by it.

      The apple shaped dent in my rear door didn't come from anecdote. It came from a PG county douchebag who got offended when I flashed him for driving around with his high beams on blinding everyone on the beltway, so he threw his lunch at my car.


      Anecdotal, my ass.
      Refer to my above response. Happy Valentine's Day.

    10. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 12:23 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by PJA View Post
      and over 3/4's of the paved roads in the US are unlit.
      Using statistics to mislead.

      More than half the population is packed into urban areas. Those 3/4 of the paved roads that are unlit? Those roads aren't in urban areas.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
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    11. Member freedomgli's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 12:26 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by focusgroup1 View Post
      Sounds more like assimilate or die to me, thanks but I'll fight.
      You’re just one consumer and an outlier at that. Fight all you want, but in all likelihood that means you’ll resort to buying/ operating older vehicles as this tech becomes more ubiquitous.

    12. Member IJM's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 12:27 PM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      Which part is anecdotal?

      The part about urbanization? That's a fact.
      The part about metro areas being so lit up that one could (not necessarily should) drive around with no headlights at all and still manage to see where they're going? That's also a fact.
      The part about the existence of urban idiots driving around with their high beams on permanently? I see at least a dozen of these people each day on my 20 mile commute. That may not seem like a large number of people doing it, but it resluts in a large number of people being blinded by it.

      The apple shaped dent in my rear door didn't come from anecdote. It came from a PG county douchebag who got offended when I flashed him for driving around with his high beams on blinding everyone on the beltway, so he threw his lunch at my car.


      Anecdotal, my ass.
      Story checks out.

    13. Member EverthingIsTerrible's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 12:30 PM #87
      I hate pretty much everyones headlights. and automatic anything is a no go for me, headlights braking, wipers etc. I can handle hitting the switch

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      02-14-2020 12:39 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      Which part is anecdotal?

      The apple shaped dent in my rear door didn't come from anecdote. It came from a PG county douchebag who got offended when I flashed him for driving around with his high beams on blinding everyone on the beltway, so he threw his lunch at my car.

      Anecdotal, my ass.
      Anecdotal means based on personal accounts rather than research. What you are saying is the EXACT meaning of an anecdote. Research would be you driving past 100 randomly selected douchebag, with their lunch in hand, counting how many of them threw their lunch at your car. (A waste of a perfectly good lunch, but I digress.)

      But hey, glad your stories have more weight than peer and university reviewed research (those studies were done to determine at what level of darkness and distance from a known object people would turn on their high beams, so rural vs urban doesn't matter) and the IIHS. You keep being you.

      Tom

    15. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 12:56 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by mutcth View Post
      Anecdotal means
      There's plenty of non-anecdotal information in the parts of the post you removed.

      Believe me... if there were inconsistencies in the facts in my post, there'd be a line of posters around the block pointing it out.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
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    16. Member Shmi's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 01:23 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      With the urbanization of America, I find this conclusion to be absolute BS.
      The ONLY time I need my high beams in a metropolitan area littered with streetlights is when I'm flashing some nitwit who has had their own high beams on since last November.

      Rural drivers are pretty good at turning on their high beams when conditions warrant, and are much better at turning them off all by themselves.

      Area man substitutes personal anecdotal observations for actual studies, more at 11. No wonder facts don't matter anymore, everyone thinks they know better. Your anecdotal observations do not negate said studies. You can easily google 'underuse of high beams' to pull them up and educate yourself. Now if you have a problem with the type of study or something about it is not optimal or empirical or the sample size is too small or they're making some extrapolations that are illogical, that's one thing, and if it's due to inaccurate methods or results are off then by all means it should be discussed... But let's not pretend your personal observations somehow carry more weight than studies that back this stuff up just bc you find it to be untrue. That's not how facts work, you usually have to disprove them with more facts, not throw them out because your experiences don't jive.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28448173
      https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredo...liography/2129
      http://www.umtri.umich.edu/our-resul...ral-roadways-0
      Last edited by Shmi; 02-14-2020 at 01:27 PM.

    17. Member Shmi's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 01:28 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      There's plenty of non-anecdotal information in the parts of the post you removed.

      Believe me... if there were inconsistencies in the facts in my post, there'd be a line of posters around the block pointing it out.
      Or they're just exhausted by the idea of arguing with a wall of anecdotes.

    18. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 01:34 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by Shmi View Post
      Area man substitutes personal anecdotal observations for actual studies, more at 11
      Presenting me with studies that primarily focus on high beam use in dark rural areas isn't going to disprove the fact that most Americans live in well lit urban areas, which was my basic point.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
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    19. Member Shmi's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 01:49 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      Presenting me with studies that primarily focus on high beam use in dark rural areas isn't going to disprove the fact that most Americans live in well lit urban areas, which was my basic point.
      Most people live in urban areas, true... I'm not arguing the opposite.

      Maybe there's some miscommunication - I'm not saying 85%(random # as an example) of the population under-use them. That point would be incompatible with the fact that most people live in cities and 90% of their driving doesn't require them. I'm saying that 85% of the time high beams should/could be used, they're not, irrespective of where they live/drive.

      The study even backs up what you said about rural residents using them more, but still not as frequently as they could.

      Vehicles at rural sites and sites at the boundaries of Ann Arbor were more likely to use high beams than vehicles at urban sites, but use in rural areas compared with rural/urban boundary areas did not vary significantly. Rates at all sites were much lower than expected, ranging from 0.9 to 52.9%. High beam use generally increased with greater time between subject vehicles and leading vehicles and vehicles in the opposing lane. There were mixed findings associated with street lighting, road curvature, and direction of travel relative to the city.
      Last edited by Shmi; 02-14-2020 at 01:53 PM.

    20. Member smoothsix's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 01:52 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by IJM View Post
      Almost as annoying as the people who drive around at night with NO lights on at all. Even in the rain.
      I didn't think I'd be showing my age in my *30s*, but when I was a kid/younger driver, you'd flash your lights at someone and they'd instantly turn theirs on. Or turn their high beams off. Or whatever the problem was.

      These days I feel like it's about a 10% success rate. People are just too goddamned stupid to notice flashing high beams, and too goddamned stupid to know how to operate basic functions on their vehicle.

      Quote Originally Posted by chois View Post
      Really?
      I'd say the statement is closer to truth than not.
      I see more cars every year driving around with highs or no lights on in urban settings.
      In rural settings where people actually need to use the lights and the highs, I don't see it often at all.
      You're setting up a really weird dichotomy. The rare rural driver, all experts in their field. The person driving in the middle of a well-lit metropolitan area all the time, dumb as a brick, driving around with their high beams on nonstop.

      The reality is, uh, a tad more nuanced. Many of us drive in urban and suburban and exurban and rural areas, all in the same day/week/month. Many suburban areas are poorly lit. There are cases where high beam use in one of the richest zip codes has saved me from hitting a deer. In fact, if anything, the rich areas are often more poorly lit, and those areas tend to be in/near population centers.

      Also, high beams in the middle of a blazing bright metro area are less annoying/problematic than high beams in a rural area. In the dark rural area you kind of need your night vision. In a well lit area, the difference between the ambient lighting and the high beams is not as great, and, as mentioned, you could drive without your lights on sometimes, so dealing with a bit of glare (say, on divided arterials rather than 2 lane country roads) is a lot easier.
      Dash cam people suck. Don't be a dash cam person.

      Quote Originally Posted by Dravenport View Post
      this thread is a mess, I can't tell if it's full of trolls or idiots and I'm not sure it matters

    21. Member shftat6's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 02:21 PM #95
      Another common issue I see with high beams and the fail to dim crowd...

      Quite often people tell me they have their brights on because one of the low beams is out. I always explain there are a couple issues with that. They shouldn't be blinding everyone because they haven't bothered to fix it. And at least in FL, you are better off getting a faulty equipment ticket instead of Fail to Dim. The latter is a moving violation which carries points and is more expensive. As a general rule I won't write a ticket for someone who has a headlight out unless the stop leads to something criminal. I will write you for not dimming your lights though!

      I did see on our CX-5's that you have to have the lights in Auto mode with the stalk forward to activate the high beams. I will have to try it and see how they perform. We have a good mix of urban and rural in my immediate area so should be interesting to see how good the system is.
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      02-16-2020 02:50 AM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by Unilateral Phase Detractor View Post
      Have them on the Mazda. While they're not perfect, they generally work ok where they're supposed to (ie unlit backroads). I've never had an issue with it not turning off for oncoming cars though.
      Me neither. I just drive too many well-lit and trafficked areas that they just are not needed/used most of the time.

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      02-16-2020 01:12 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by shftat6 View Post
      I will write you for not dimming your lights though!


      thank you for helping enforce this! i was only able to vote 5/5 stars on this thread, i'm missing the 11/10 option.
      wonder if any of our lucky locals were fortunate enough to experience the full power of those takedown lights

      stay safe!

    24. 02-16-2020 01:37 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by smoothsix View Post
      I didn't think I'd be showing my age in my *30s*, but when I was a kid/younger driver, you'd flash your lights at someone and they'd instantly turn theirs on. Or turn their high beams off. Or whatever the problem was.

      These days I feel like it's about a 10% success rate. People are just too goddamned stupid to notice flashing high beams, and too goddamned stupid to know how to operate basic functions on their vehicle.
      10% is a gross overestimation in my experience. The only way that works now, is to roll up beside them at a stop and yell at them to turn their lights on.

      When I started driving, the normal reaction to seeing a flash of the lights by another driver is to check your own vehicle to see if anything was amiss. Lights not on, high beams on when they shouldn't be, big cloud of smoke out the back, something hanging loose, etc. Or too fast and there's a cop up ahead ...

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      02-16-2020 02:40 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by johntesi View Post
      My '20 Outback I just ditched
      Wait, what? You already ditched it - what'd you get?

      Still sad you sold the 'Runner; I've followed your previous adventures in it and could related as fellow MTBed, dog guy and 4Runner owner.

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      02-16-2020 02:42 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by shftat6 View Post
      Another common issue I see with high beams and the fail to dim crowd...

      Quite often people tell me they have their brights on because one of the low beams is out. I always explain there are a couple issues with that. They shouldn't be blinding everyone because they haven't bothered to fix it. And at least in FL, you are better off getting a faulty equipment ticket instead of Fail to Dim. The latter is a moving violation which carries points and is more expensive. As a general rule I won't write a ticket for someone who has a headlight out unless the stop leads to something criminal. I will write you for not dimming your lights though!
      Wish there were cops like you in DFW. It's an epidemic here with people running brights all the time.

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