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    Thread: Bay Area folks under 'shelter in place': are you going for a drive?

    1. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      04-02-2020 08:25 AM #251
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      My Mom was a dental hygienist and a school teacher, so she's thankfully good with PPE, washing hands, and always doing what she can to not get sick from the carrier monkeys that we call children.

      My Dad is an introverted homebody, so I'm not concerned about him. I checked in and he said "yeah, I'm retired, so everything is the same for me, other than I'm not going to the gym, and wifey does all the shopping anyway."

      They're more worried about me since I'm near the epicenter for it all in California.
      Solid.


      Quote Originally Posted by vwlifer27 View Post
      Yep. I purchased everything on Monday. Itís all canned goods/tissue/dry goods except two items. The two items that needed to be refrigerated were washed with soap and water and placed in the fridge. The rest has been in my trunk since Monday. By the time she gets them, it will have been 72 hours (COVID lives up to 24 hours for paper and cardboard, and up to 72 for metal and plastic according to all the doctors).

      I found some older face masks, so when I get up tomorrow I will put that on along with some latex gloves we had left over, take the refrigerated items out and put them in the cooler and place it in the trunk. Once I get there, same deal: mask and gloves to carry it to her door.

      I am starting to get nervous about going, but I think I am being super careful about everything.
      Also solid. I like overkill, so I'd hit the cans and such with some bleach cleaner, alcohol or Lysol if you have any.
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      04-03-2020 08:18 PM #252
      My wife woke up this morning and said ďyou should take me in a drive somewhere, I need to get out!Ē.

      Ok, so a full tank of gas and we hit the road with a picnic lunch in the bright yellow Aston. Our intention: to drive somewhere isolated, enjoy the open road, and eat something in the Northern California sunshine.

      We went West through Orinda, traffic seemed normal. Nothing apocalyptic.



      Up through Berkeley and across the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge. SF to my left and Mt Tamalpais and San Quentin Prison straight ahead looking glorious in the mid day sun. Must be the most valuable prison real estate in the country.





      Up through Novato to Lucas Valley Rd to Nicasio. Passed by George Lucasí front gate. Always makes me think of that Big Bang Theory episode:







      Through the redwoods at Nicasio and out to the town of Pt Reyes Station.







      Time for a ďtailgate picnicĒ, Aston style.









      Then drive south on Highway 1 on a very windy and wonderful section into the town of Stinson Beach (closed to traffic into town and onto beach). Then up and over the mountain again through Muir Woods and into Mill Valley.













      Last edited by Dave_Car_Guy; 04-03-2020 at 08:24 PM.

    4. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      04-03-2020 08:51 PM #253
      I sat in the Lotus last night while doing a Zoom happy hour. I shifted it and made vroom vroom noises. Not quite the same as you Dave.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. Iíll be there, front row.

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      04-03-2020 09:44 PM #254
      I haven't even started my fun car in weeks now, in fact haven't gone anywhere other than the grocery store and on walks...this thread is making the withdrawals even worse.

      Maybe I'll go sit in it and make vroom vroom noises.

    6. Member Meroving1an's Avatar
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      04-03-2020 09:59 PM #255
      Nice trip, Dave. A proper quarantine beard going on, too.

    7. 04-03-2020 10:17 PM #256
      As much as I like to take a 4 hour drive up HighWay 1 toward Eureka from San Francisco. I am going to stay in place.
      I work for the areaís largest Health care organization.

      Shelter in place works. There are reports that it is airborne and can stay in the air for 4 hours.

      Compare SF to NY. NY is a cluster ****. Sure, it is more dense than SF. But compare SF to LA. SF is more dense than LA and has a high use of public transit (BART). yet, SF started 3-4 days before LA and we are in a much better position. Those essential 3 days before LA, despite higher density, shows the Bay Area is bending the curve.

      I am seeing how the nurses and docs preparing. When my coworkers fear for their own life, I will respect theirs by staying home.

      When history is written, we will see how devasting this pandemic is.

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      04-03-2020 11:02 PM #257
      Quote Originally Posted by mrspeedmaster View Post
      As much as I like to take a 4 hour drive up HighWay 1 toward Eureka from San Francisco. I am going to stay in place.
      I work for the areaís largest Health care organization.

      Shelter in place works. There are reports that it is airborne and can stay in the air for 4 hours.

      I am seeing how the nurses and docs preparing. When my coworkers fear for their own life, I will respect theirs by staying home.

      When history is written, we will see how devasting this pandemic is.
      While I completely respect the great work being done in the health care arena, and I want to keep everyone safe, I am going to go out in a limb here. I have been without human contact, other than my wife, for several weeks. I donít work. I donít have any likelihood of a virus. I havenít traveled. The closest humans have been the two times Iíve had food delivered, at which times I disinfected everything before and after eating. I am sheltering in place. Iím not having parties, going to work, Iím not shopping and when I go out, I donít use any public facilities, tables, doorknobs, etc.

      But sheltering in place doesnít mean you canít be in a car. The issue is what you do after you get in the car (or out of it). So going for a three hour drive, staying in the car except for getting out at random empty turnouts, never being within 30 feet of another person, I am fully confident that: 1) I do not have the virus and canít give it to anyone, and 2) Iím not close enough to anything to get it. Every time I come in and out of the car, I use hand sanitizer.

      So I am going to get lambasted by some, but there is a tremendous one-upmanship going on in terms of what ďmightĒ occur (the airborne thing is a hugely contentious issue with no facts yet behind it that I am aware of). Big cities with high concentrations of people are at greater risk. I live in a small town on an acre and donít see anyone all day. The idea that you (or I) would be putting ANYONE at risk by jumping in your car and driving to Eureka, then driving home again is akin to believing in Leech therapy. It just has no basis. Yes, this virus is easily transmitted, but it has proven to be so in close quarters. Like cruise ships. And workplaces. And public transit. And schools. Frankly, the grocery stores are much bigger issues than you driving around in your car without going to lunch or dinner, etc.

      And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch and calls me a denier, I will point out that my 26-year old daughter was exposed to the virus at a wedding 4 weeks ago. In South Africa. The bride was confirmed with COVID-19 a week later. My daughter got the symptoms and was tested. Showed negative but they said that often happens in early stages. She was quarantined for the last three weeks. Felt sick but is now better. She wasnít able to leave the apartment, let alone leave the country. She is living there for the next 5 months. Few flights out. So trust me, I feel more scared than most people. But Iím also one to recognize what effective solutions are and what non-effective restrictions look like.

      The curve is flattening most places except New York. but it isnít in the interest of anyone to say so just yet. And since Wall Street and the news companies are all in New York, that will always color the narrative. (See CDC data below for March 26-31). After April 1, data isnít in yet, so ignore the last few days. But the rate of growth IS slowing, thanks to what we are all doing.

      And I completely agree with you that we donít know yet what will be, and when the history is written of this pandemic, we will compare the actual death toll to the economic toll. And the toll on the freedoms we Americans have always considered inherent to our daily lives. My fear is that we are all under immense pressure to bend to the will of Big Brother, regardless of how it is eroding 300 years of individual self-determination. Yes, we need to stop the spread. And we should stop the spread of opioid addiction. And the spread of flu, and AIDS, and STDs, and lots of other stuff.

      So yeah, Iím driving, and I encourage you to, as well, while staying safely away from Anyone else out there!!

      /rant


    9. Member Dirty Hatch's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 12:05 AM #258
      Thanks for sharing your pics Dave. When this all over I need to make it out there and see Muir Woods, since I am related to John Muir; at least that is what my Mum told me (her Maiden name is Muir). Stay safe guys.

    10. Member MoPho's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 12:07 AM #259
      Can't even go hiking there are so many people on the trails, same for the bike paths. Safer to go for a drive in the car.




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      04-04-2020 12:17 AM #260
      Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Hatch View Post
      Thanks for sharing your pics Dave. When this all over I need to make it out there and see Muir Woods, since I am related to John Muir; at least that is what my Mum told me (her Maiden name is Muir). Stay safe guys.
      Thatís would be great! John Muir was an amazing guy. We have him to thank for the National Park system!! His former home, now a National Historic site, isnít far from here. And close to a Shelby museum, also.

      Quote Originally Posted by Meroving1an View Post
      Nice trip, Dave. A proper quarantine beard going on, too.
      Thanks! My wife does not share your enthusiasm for it.

    12. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 12:32 AM #261
      I have a terribly ratty flesh colored quarantine beard. I should just get rid of it.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. Assetto Corsa Discord Link. Join us for some sim racing fun.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. Iíll be there, front row.

    13. Senior Member Silly_me's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 01:15 AM #262
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      the airborne thing is a hugely contentious issue with no facts yet behind it that I am aware of
      Not sure if serious? That's Brian Kemp level of stupidity.
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    14. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 01:27 AM #263
      Quote Originally Posted by Silly_me View Post
      Not sure if serious? That's Brian Kemp level of stupidity.
      I believe Dave was stating the claim it can "stay airborne for up to four hours" is not yet proven as fact.

      Everyone knows it is airborne, coughs and sneezes, etc.

      Anyways, thanks for sharing Dave! What a great car to paint yellow. Terribly loud, tons of fun, rowdy, it's perfect in yellow. Glad your wife and you got out of the house for a moment. It's good for refueling. It is truly terrible to stay locked up for too long, life becomes a fog.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      You take that fake rich sled back to the toothless masses and rub their stupid meth faces in your success. Do it for me.

    15. Senior Member Silly_me's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 01:33 AM #264
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      I believe Dave was stating the claim it can "stay airborne for up to four hours" is not yet proven as fact.
      Oh, that must be why the curve is flattening then.
      Germans are white people. Look up #84 on the list of things white people like: Gear. Lots of Gear. We even have gear farkles over here. -Atomicalex

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    16. Member swedesc's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 01:44 AM #265
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      While I completely respect the great work being done in the health care arena, and I want to keep everyone safe, I am going to go out in a limb here. I have been without human contact, other than my wife, for several weeks. I donít work. I donít have any likelihood of a virus. I havenít traveled. The closest humans have been the two times Iíve had food delivered, at which times I disinfected everything before and after eating. I am sheltering in place. Iím not having parties, going to work, Iím not shopping and when I go out, I donít use any public facilities, tables, doorknobs, etc.

      But sheltering in place doesnít mean you canít be in a car. The issue is what you do after you get in the car (or out of it). So going for a three hour drive, staying in the car except for getting out at random empty turnouts, never being within 30 feet of another person, I am fully confident that: 1) I do not have the virus and canít give it to anyone, and 2) Iím not close enough to anything to get it. Every time I come in and out of the car, I use hand sanitizer.
      Agree with all of Dave's comments. They just shut down the dealership I work at. A week ago I was working 3 days a week and with my online school it was perfect. I was busy and making money. Now I feel I'm back in my slump of feeling like my life is pointless. I CAN'T be in the house for more than 3 days at a time; there's only so much I can do before I lose it. It's weird too because I have all this time but after a while of just sitting in the house I lose all motivation to do anything and I find myself laying in bed. Further, I think simply going for a drive around the beach is much safer than what I see going on there. I've been doing this now that I don't have work. While our beach is physically shut off so no one can go on sand, so many people are still walking the narrows trails and in packs. I'm not surprised though as our local media is sending mixed messages. When listening to the local news I'll often hear "shelter in place" and then on a different segment the anchor will say, "don't forget about your local businesses that are still open many of them can't survive without your business," so do you want me to stay home or go out and spend money. Still, when I go on my joyrides I don't leave the car or interact with anyone.

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      04-04-2020 02:00 AM #266
      Quote Originally Posted by Silly_me View Post
      Not sure if serious? That's Brian Kemp level of stupidity.
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      I believe Dave was stating the claim it can "stay airborne for up to four hours" is not yet proven as fact. Everyone knows it is airborne, coughs and sneezes, etc.
      Yes, Cabin Pics read it correctly, I was responding to the post that suggested that it could possibly "stay airborne for up to four hours". That is the part that is highly contentious. No doubt it can spread airborne, but not yards away... more like very close. Which is why the guidelines for 6 feet are considered very effective.

      The World Health Organization published this report on February 24 about the transmission of the disease:
      COVID-19 is transmitted via droplets and fomites during close unprotected contact between an infector and infectee. Airborne spread has not been reported for COVID-19 and it is not believed to be a major driver of transmission based on available evidence; however, it can be envisaged if certain aerosol-generating procedures are conducted in health care facilities. Fecal shedding has been demonstrated from some patients, and viable virus has been identified in a limited number of case reports. However, the fecal-oral route does not appear to be a driver of COVID-19 transmission; its role and significance for COVID-19 remains to be determined.

      And the CDC says this:
      The virus that causes COVID-19 is thought to spread mainly from person to person, mainly through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Spread is more likely when people are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet).

      So while it travel in the air, i still say that making statements like "It might stay airborne for four hours" is overstated and therefore, I'm ok to drive ;-) That was my only point. Driving, per se, is not a dangerous thing to do. It's getting somewhere and getting out and interacting with other people that is the problem.

      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      Anyways, thanks for sharing Dave! What a great car to paint yellow. Terribly loud, tons of fun, rowdy, it's perfect in yellow. Glad your wife and you got out of the house for a moment. It's good for refueling. It is truly terrible to stay locked up for too long, life becomes a fog.
      Thank you! Full disclosure: it's not yellow paint, actually. This is another of my vinyl-wrapped skittles. I drove it adorned in it's stately Tungsten Silver for 12 years before I color-changed it. Pretty loud, though, for sure!
      Last edited by Dave_Car_Guy; 04-04-2020 at 10:25 AM.

    18. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 02:22 AM #267
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post



      Thank you! Full disclosure: it's not yellow paint, actually. This is another of my vinyl-wrapped skittles. I drove it adorned in it's stately Tungsten Silver for 12 years before I color-changed it. Pretty loud, though, for sure!
      That makes sense, I didnít remember you having a yellow Aston.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      You take that fake rich sled back to the toothless masses and rub their stupid meth faces in your success. Do it for me.

    19. Member kiznarsh's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 03:48 AM #268
      Went to get groceries the other day and noticed a few people wearing masks...while driving.

      Maybe they share the car with others? And no, not Uber/Lyft.

    20. Member rich!'s Avatar
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      04-04-2020 06:50 AM #269
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      I believe Dave was stating the claim it can "stay airborne for up to four hours" is not yet proven as fact.

      Everyone knows it is airborne, coughs and sneezes, etc.

      Anyways, thanks for sharing Dave! What a great car to paint yellow. Terribly loud, tons of fun, rowdy, it's perfect in yellow. Glad your wife and you got out of the house for a moment. It's good for refueling. It is truly terrible to stay locked up for too long, life becomes a fog.

      Testing was done several weeks ago, half life is about an hour in the air.
      https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-h...-idUKKBN2143PW

    21. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 10:49 AM #270
      Quote Originally Posted by kiznarsh View Post
      Went to get groceries the other day and noticed a few people wearing masks...while driving.

      Maybe they share the car with others? And no, not Uber/Lyft.
      Much like the TSA, humans love the illusion of safety rather than actually being safe.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. Assetto Corsa Discord Link. Join us for some sim racing fun.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. Iíll be there, front row.

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      04-04-2020 10:51 AM #271
      Quote Originally Posted by rich! View Post
      Testing was done several weeks ago, half life is about an hour in the air.
      https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-h...-idUKKBN2143PW
      You are absolutely right! And while I am familiar with that study and the statements made, the contentious part is the discussion of "aerosol" vs "droplets". That experiment used an artificial aerosol to suspend the particles in air in order to determine their lifespan - not to determine their transmission rates in naturally occurring airborne droplets. That is not the same as saying that the droplets that come out of your face are suspended in an aerosol.

      A number of Universities and hospitals have further clarified this (I get some of this from my friend who is a senior researcher and head of a surgical group at Stanford hospital). The gravity effect on naturally occurring droplets is why the hospitals are focused on surface cleaning. However, I do note that a cold fog could potentially suspend the virus in air for far longer, acting as the aerosol "trap". So I will concede that warm, clear days are less risky than cold, foggy conditions.

      https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/16/...t-mean-doomed/

      In droplet form, the coronavirus is airborne for a few seconds after someone sneezes or coughs. Itís able to travel only a short distance before gravitational forces pull it down. Someone close enough for the virus particles to reach in that brief period can therefore be infected. So can anyone who comes into contact with virus-containing droplets that fall onto a surface. The new coronavirus can survive on surfaces for several hours; hence the importance of hand-washing after touching a surface in a public place.

      An aerosol is a wholly different physical state: Particles are held in the air by physical and chemical forces. Fog is an aerosol; water droplets are suspended in air. The suspended particles remain for hours or more, depending on factors such as heat and humidity. If virus particles, probably on droplets of mucus or saliva, can be suspended in air for more than a few seconds, as the measles virus can, then anyone passing through that pathogenic cloud could become infected.

      There are strong reasons to doubt that the new coronavirus has anything close to that capability.

      ďIf it could easily exist as an aerosol, we would be seeing much greater levels of transmission,Ē said epidemiologist Michael LeVasseur of Drexel University. ďAnd we would be seeing a different pattern in whoís getting infected. With droplet spread, itís mostly to close contacts. But if a virus easily exists as an aerosol, you could get it from people you share an elevator with.Ē

      According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, that is not happening. Earlier this month, CDC scientists reported that the rate of symptomatic infection among a patientís household members was 10.5%. The rate among other close contacts was 0.45%. In the case of one particular patient, none of his five household members, although continuously exposed to the patient during the time he was isolated at home, tested positive for the virus.
      Last edited by Dave_Car_Guy; 04-04-2020 at 10:58 AM.

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      04-04-2020 11:23 AM #272
      And BTW, I should reiterate that I take this all very seriously and I am complying with all sheltering and distancing guidelines, except the part about getting in a car and driving around with no contact with other people. As others have pointed out here, the walking and biking trails are more crowded than ever, and I live on a 3-mile street "circle" on a rural hill very close to our small downtown. As such, this route is extremely popular with runners, bikers, walkers, dog walkers, etc. Probably 300 people per day walk by my house now compared to maybe 100/day in the past. I see them out my garage window stopping to chat from over 6 feet away. I believe this is generally safe, as is driving.

      And although this is a driving thread, I will point out that I think the NY Times is doing an exceptional job keeping up on and aggregating data. Even the CDC has stopped aggregating data at State levels, so the NYT is the place for the good data. There are negative connotations and positive ones from examining the data. Be Now go be safe, and check it out at:

      https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ly-growth-rate

    24. Member swedesc's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 11:52 AM #273
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Much like the TSA, humans love the illusion of safety rather than actually being safe.
      Is wearing a mask going to make you less safe? NO. So there's no reason to criticize those wearing them. People who denounce those who take extra precaution are apart of the problem...

    25. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 12:12 PM #274
      Quote Originally Posted by swedesc View Post
      Is wearing a mask going to make you less safe? NO. So there's no reason to criticize those wearing them. People who denounce those who take extra precaution are apart of the problem...
      Thatís a broad brush stroke you just hit me with. Rather than wearing an N95 in your car on a trip that is most likely not essential to your survival, Iíd rather that N95 be used for a front line medical professional who needs proper PPE. Aside from a 10 minute drive to blow the cobwebs out of my car and get propane, and a trip to the post office, I havenít left my place for about three weeks now.

      If youíre wearing an N95 in your car on the way to Taco Bell, youíre part of the problem. See how I can also use that broad brush?
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. Iíll be there, front row.

    26. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 12:15 PM #275
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      See how I can also use that broad brush?
      Paint me like one of your French boys.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      You take that fake rich sled back to the toothless masses and rub their stupid meth faces in your success. Do it for me.

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