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    Thread: Next-generation Nissan Z

    1. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      03-22-2020 12:54 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by rudyr View Post
      The police boogie man is always one I hear. In 10 years of living in the Bay Area, I've been pulled over a total of 3 times, all going 100MPH+; I've had to do online defensive driving 2x and once he just let me go when I handed him my investigator license. For perspective, in that same time my wife in her soccer mom SUVs has been pulled over / red light cam'd 3x for failing to come to complete stops. Having a bunch of HP doesn't increase your chances of being pulled over, not educating yourself where the common police hideouts are (I always slow down prior to 280/92 where I exit off) is what will do you in 9x out of 10.
      I mean I'm long overdue for a ticket. It's been 8 years since I got a ticket. Like you, the trick is knowing the time and place to have fun. My ex got pulled over often, and I don't.

      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      i think he means (and I would agree with) more than xxx power doesn't really make much of a difference to the experience on the street. Power:weight is where it's at, and I'd rather they strip weight than add power. So many more noticeable gains towards a pleasant driving experience.

      I mean lets be honest here, no one is going to exceed 90 mph on a day-today basis here (if you don't take it to the track, which most won't) so how much power can you put down to the ground, and how many times are you really going to hit 90 mph from a standstill? Compared to the times you'll take aggressive highway entrances and exits, swooping backroad corners, etc. where lightness will be the noticeable characteristic and power will just be a nice-to-have.
      I mean that's logic that I can get behind. Simple, lightweight, low unsprung weight, cheaper consumables, etc. I'm good with all of that.

      I myself rarely go over 90. Cops and all that. But I do get up to freeway speed nicely every day.
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      03-22-2020 01:05 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      I have a 485hp 4,000lb sedan, and a 400 hp 3,000lb sports car. Both are completely usable on the street. What do you think you can't do with them?

      I have never understood TCL's "anything faster than X or more horsepower than Y isn't good for the street" logic. I'm happy to hear your side though!
      What you can't do with them is enjoy revving them out because you'll be at license-losing speeds before you redline in second gear.

    4. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
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      03-22-2020 01:16 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      I mean I'm long overdue for a ticket. It's been 8 years since I got a ticket. Like you, the trick is knowing the time and place to have fun. My ex got pulled over often, and I don't.
      yeah i think i'm more like your ex, not referring to my mild manboobs. I seem to get pulled over every damn time I do anything illegal...and I swear I'm a decent driver in a 155hp econobox. I can't say I'd be the same guy in a different machine.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      I mean that's logic that I can get behind. Simple, lightweight, low unsprung weight, cheaper consumables, etc. I'm good with all of that.

      I myself rarely go over 90. Cops and all that. But I do get up to freeway speed nicely every day.
      I'm good with cheap simple fun.

      Quote Originally Posted by Canaletto View Post
      What you can't do with them is enjoy revving them out because you'll be at license-losing speeds before you redline in second gear.
      yeah, there's something to be said about "slow car fast" > "fast car slow".
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    5. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      03-22-2020 01:20 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by Canaletto View Post
      What you can't do with them is enjoy revving them out because you'll be at license-losing speeds before you redline in second gear.
      Both cars go into 3rd around 70. I can go WOT just fine getting onto the freeway.

      And it's more fun to go WOT in a 485 hp car than a 200 hp car, two gear changes included.

      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      yeah i think i'm more like your ex, not referring to my mild manboobs. I seem to get pulled over every damn time I do anything illegal...and I swear I'm a decent driver in a 155hp econobox. I can't say I'd be the same guy in a different machine.
      I see it with Teslas in my area. They usually are the first properly fast car a lot of drivers have ever had, and they drive like it. Can't maintain speed on the freeway, go slow on onramps, then sprint to 90, then slam on the brakes for a merge. Every little thing that annoys the driver means they punch it and summon up a bunch of speed that puts the driver behind the car mentally. It's pretty comical. There's a reason why Teslas accident rate in Norway is 20% vs ICE cars at 9%. Most people who aren't used to a high powered car get themselves into trouble with them rather quickly.

      Like anything with vehicles though, training and practice gets your brain acclimated to them, and once you're acclimated I see zero issue with a high powered car on the street.

      So I've pulled this way off topic. Per the new Z, I'd take a light weight, lower HP version if they made it, but that's not what sells. It'll probably have to be 450hp, have a ton of grip, otherwise it'll lose the all important magazine race.
      Last edited by Sold Over Sticker; 03-22-2020 at 01:27 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
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      03-22-2020 02:28 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Both cars go into 3rd around 70. I can go WOT just fine getting onto the freeway.

      And it's more fun to go WOT in a 485 hp car than a 200 hp car, two gear changes included.



      I see it with Teslas in my area. They usually are the first properly fast car a lot of drivers have ever had, and they drive like it. Can't maintain speed on the freeway, go slow on onramps, then sprint to 90, then slam on the brakes for a merge. Every little thing that annoys the driver means they punch it and summon up a bunch of speed that puts the driver behind the car mentally. It's pretty comical. There's a reason why Teslas accident rate in Norway is 20% vs ICE cars at 9%. Most people who aren't used to a high powered car get themselves into trouble with them rather quickly.

      Like anything with vehicles though, training and practice gets your brain acclimated to them, and once you're acclimated I see zero issue with a high powered car on the street.

      So I've pulled this way off topic. Per the new Z, I'd take a light weight, lower HP version if they made it, but that's not what sells. It'll probably have to be 450hp, have a ton of grip, otherwise it'll lose the all important magazine race.
      Thereís room for both. Ford and Chevy both have 4 cylinder entry level models for people that donít want/need 450hp. A whole bunch of people just want a cute red convertible. Might as well sell them cars too.

    7. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
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      03-22-2020 02:39 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by Taco1933 View Post
      Thereís room for both. Ford and Chevy both have 4 cylinder entry level models for people that donít want/need 450hp. A whole bunch of people just want a cute red convertible. Might as well sell them cars too.
      hopefully the target market for a low-powered Z would be significantly different than that for a base convertible pony car.
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      Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy.

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      03-22-2020 03:48 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      hopefully the target market for a low-powered Z would be significantly different than that for a base convertible pony car.
      I think if youíre selling a $30k coupe and not hoping to poach sales from two of the top selling $30k coupes in the world, youíre setting up for failure. It just seems like low-hanging fruit to tune up Infinitiís 2.0t and give people the option of a <$30k Z. And if someone wants more power than that, you know that option will be there too.

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      03-22-2020 04:43 PM #58
      The current Z starts at $30k and tops out with the $45k NISMO. Iím sure the street prices are heavily discounted now.

      Iíd like to think they can stay in that range with a cheaper, Turbo-4 coming in just above the BRZ/86 and the top spec 6-cylinder (turbo probably) with all the goodies undercutting the Supra by a little bit.

      That price range also attacks the American pony car market nicely.

    10. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
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      03-22-2020 07:51 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by Taco1933 View Post
      I think if youíre selling a $30k coupe and not hoping to poach sales from two of the top selling $30k coupes in the world, youíre setting up for failure. It just seems like low-hanging fruit to tune up Infinitiís 2.0t and give people the option of a <$30k Z. And if someone wants more power than that, you know that option will be there too.
      yeah i know. i just hate that the 2.0T is the obvious answer.
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      03-22-2020 08:20 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      yeah i know. i just hate that the 2.0T is the obvious answer.
      Well, I guess they could always use an ďupgradedĒ 3.7L theyíre using now as the base engine. Then offer up a beefed up 3.0 twin turbo as the upgraded model.

      I had the 3.5L in my M35. Great motor with an ever better sound. I wouldnít mind the 3.7L variant sticking around a bit longer. But if the idea is to cut costs and be fuel efficient, it doesnít seem like a fit.

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      03-23-2020 02:01 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      I'm paying attention to this, and I'm really curious what Nissan is going to do here. A lot of potential for a really awesome car, and almost an equal chance at getting a completely late automatic only POS.

      We'll see, I have my fingers crossed that a true BRZ / GT86 competitor emerges from this.
      It will be far more expensive than the 86, likely. 86 isn't a Z competitor anyway.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      I have a 485hp 4,000lb sedan, and a 400 hp 3,000lb sports car. Both are completely usable on the street. What do you think you can't do with them?

      I have never understood TCL's "anything faster than X or more horsepower than Y isn't good for the street" logic. I'm happy to hear your side though!
      I have driven the SS. You cannot be at WOT for very long before running out of room (or speeding). I think that is the crux of the issue. Sure, I could just lift more, but where is the fun in that. The thing you can't "use" is all the power. Getting big speed fast is normal business to the SS the same way getting 60mpg is normal business in the Prius. Driving at 5/10ths just isn't as fun. I agree with the other poster who said it is more about power/weight.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
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      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    13. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      03-23-2020 02:39 AM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      I have driven the SS. You cannot be at WOT for very long before running out of room (or speeding). I think that is the crux of the issue. Sure, I could just lift more, but where is the fun in that. The thing you can't "use" is all the power. Getting big speed fast is normal business to the SS the same way getting 60mpg is normal business in the Prius. Driving at 5/10ths just isn't as fun. I agree with the other poster who said it is more about power/weight.
      I guess this boils down to what you like to do. If there is fun in tachíing out every gear, hammering an upshift at redline and going back to WOT, sure, the SS wonít do that. Youíll be in 4th in a world where 4th means jail.

      I operate in a world where itís fun to bring the car up to the speed it needs to be at to brake and rotate it into the next corner. I can always get to that speed. No matter what. When I borrow slow cars I canít always get to the speed where the next corner is fun, especially uphill.

      Iíd personally rather to WOT 1 one thousand, lift, maintain speed, brake turn in, add power and go, vs WOT...still WOT...turn in WOT, oh I didnít use the chassis, still WOT, ok cool, still WOT.

      One reminds me of balancing available resources and one reminds me of driving a delivery van up a hill. Different strokes I guess.
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    14. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      03-23-2020 02:53 AM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      I have driven the SS. You cannot be at WOT for very long before running out of room (or speeding).

      News flash, you canít keep a new Miata at WOT all day long either, youíll be going much faster than youíre comfortable with.
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      03-23-2020 05:46 AM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      News flash, you canít keep a new Miata at WOT all day long either, youíll be going much faster than youíre comfortable with.
      well no, but at least you get to rev out the Miata a few times before you get uncomfortable.
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      03-23-2020 10:39 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      News flash, you canít keep a new Miata at WOT all day long either, youíll be going much faster than youíre comfortable with.
      By that logic, you can't really keep any (normal) car at WOT all day long either. You can't compare a Miata to 400+ HP.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    17. Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      03-23-2020 10:43 AM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      I guess this boils down to what you like to do. If there is fun in tachíing out every gear, hammering an upshift at redline and going back to WOT, sure, the SS wonít do that. Youíll be in 4th in a world where 4th means jail.

      I operate in a world where itís fun to bring the car up to the speed it needs to be at to brake and rotate it into the next corner. I can always get to that speed. No matter what. When I borrow slow cars I canít always get to the speed where the next corner is fun, especially uphill.

      Iíd personally rather to WOT 1 one thousand, lift, maintain speed, brake turn in, add power and go, vs WOT...still WOT...turn in WOT, oh I didnít use the chassis, still WOT, ok cool, still WOT.

      One reminds me of balancing available resources and one reminds me of driving a delivery van up a hill. Different strokes I guess.
      Well, for me it's not about being all WOT all the time. But you buy a big V8 muscle car so that you can be forced in your seat, especially since there is so much tire and chassis to make curves that would be interesting in smaller car pretty uneventful. If you can't make use of that power without getting arrested, then what are you left with? You just have to comparatively being going faster in a car like the SS to really get something out of it. Cars like that and Mustangs can handle much more speed without fuss. But sometimes the whole point is the fuss, no?

      Re next corner being fun: This goes back to my point of "unless you have the roads for it". Sure, if you have bomb canyon roads in your backyard, go nuts. Especially if you can stomach the high speeds. But for the street, there are more appropriate cars to have fun with.

      Just my .02.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    18. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      03-23-2020 11:18 AM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      Well, for me it's not about being all WOT all the time. But you buy a big V8 muscle car so that you can be forced in your seat, especially since there is so much tire and chassis to make curves that would be interesting in smaller car pretty uneventful. If you can't make use of that power without getting arrested, then what are you left with? You just have to comparatively being going faster in a car like the SS to really get something out of it. Cars like that and Mustangs can handle much more speed without fuss. But sometimes the whole point is the fuss, no?

      Re next corner being fun: This goes back to my point of "unless you have the roads for it". Sure, if you have bomb canyon roads in your backyard, go nuts. Especially if you can stomach the high speeds. But for the street, there are more appropriate cars to have fun with.

      Just my .02.
      The fuss is fun for sure, and I guess for my use case on my roads Iíve found the right tools. Iíve spent enough time driving slow cars fast and watched them just not keep up with the roads, that Iíve decided I like fast cars instead. I had a blast driving my friends very well sorted Miata recently, but once we got on an especially twisty and steep section of road, I was wishing I was back in the SS or the Evora, as it wasnít fun to hold it pinned and just struggle up the hill.

      I think thereís a common misnomer with driving a modern car like you have to hit unreal speeds in them. You donít. Mid corner is fun. If a Miata is going 40 at the apex, I might be doing 50-55 in the Evora. Thatís not a world of difference. I just have the available power on hand to always work the chassis, and that brings out the fuss you and I enjoy.

      I do agree though that you have to be hitting mid corner speeds that are higher before you get through the modern car isolation. 40 mid corner in a Miata isnít fun at 40 in the Evora, and definitely not in the SS. Both modern cars need that little bit extra before they feel rewarding.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. Iíll be there, front row.

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      03-23-2020 11:48 AM #68
      Around 200hp/ton is normally a good sweet spot, if they can keep the weight to just over 1000kg and around 220 - 250hp that would be peachy

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      03-23-2020 12:26 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by chopWet View Post
      Around 200hp/ton is normally a good sweet spot, if they can keep the weight to just over 1000kg and around 220 - 250hp that would be peachy
      You are dreaming.
      This is Nissan's Z car.
      Even my 90 240SX weighed 2700 lbs.
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      03-23-2020 04:12 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      You are dreaming.
      This is Nissan's Z car.
      Even my 90 240SX weighed 2700 lbs.
      He is not dreaming about wanting a 200hp/ton car. His dreaming part is want such a car for CHEAP... Like $35k - 50k cheap. This is the typical American out of touch about car price. American have been blessed with cheap car price for too long and made them delusional about car price today. Ask yourself: how much can you American shell out for a 200hp/ton sporty car??

      Let me give you a reference before you answer...
      Alpine A110: 2432lb, 250hp. Price: Ä66,500 ($75000US)

      Alfa 4C: 2315lb (dry), 237hp. Price: $67000 US starting

      USA is NOT a main market for "light weight sport car" for DECADES. This is why cars like Alpine A110 and Lotus Elise/Exige are not selling in USA (and Can). While those heavy (and old) 700hp Charger/Challenger are selling like hotcake in USA.
      Last edited by Avus; 03-23-2020 at 04:27 PM.
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      03-23-2020 05:43 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      The fuss is fun for sure, and I guess for my use case on my roads Iíve found the right tools. Iíve spent enough time driving slow cars fast and watched them just not keep up with the roads, that Iíve decided I like fast cars instead. I had a blast driving my friends very well sorted Miata recently, but once we got on an especially twisty and steep section of road, I was wishing I was back in the SS or the Evora, as it wasnít fun to hold it pinned and just struggle up the hill.

      I think thereís a common misnomer with driving a modern car like you have to hit unreal speeds in them. You donít. Mid corner is fun. If a Miata is going 40 at the apex, I might be doing 50-55 in the Evora. Thatís not a world of difference. I just have the available power on hand to always work the chassis, and that brings out the fuss you and I enjoy.

      I do agree though that you have to be hitting mid corner speeds that are higher before you get through the modern car isolation. 40 mid corner in a Miata isnít fun at 40 in the Evora, and definitely not in the SS. Both modern cars need that little bit extra before they feel rewarding.
      You live in the best place in the world. Everywhere else has some combination of worse roads, worse weather, worse cops, worse cars, worse incomes - or all of the above in my case.

      I can't even drive my dangerously slow stock 86 hard in NY without fear of losing my license. The idea of running an Evora hard on public roads is completely unfathomable. How are you not in jail?

      Also, I'm still on snow tires. We got a few inches of snow and sleet today. Lucky bastard.
      Last edited by troyguitar; 03-23-2020 at 05:48 PM.

    23. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      03-23-2020 06:14 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      You live in the best place in the world. Everywhere else has some combination of worse roads, worse weather, worse cops, worse cars, worse incomes - or all of the above in my case.

      I can't even drive my dangerously slow stock 86 hard in NY without fear of losing my license. The idea of running an Evora hard on public roads is completely unfathomable. How are you not in jail?

      Also, I'm still on snow tires. We got a few inches of snow and sleet today. Lucky bastard.
      Still like the color combo on that 86.

      I mean NorCal is pretty amazing. SoCal might beat it for car culture, but I rank the roads similarly.

      I'm not in jail because I'm not going 100 mph down the sections of road that the cops patrol. I laugh at the new money guys who buy a McLaren, decide to go to the coast, and get pulled over going 2x the speed limit on a boring road and go to jail and get their car impounded. That's just silly, and reckless. Or guys who try and hang their car loose on The Snake and find CHP sitting right there. CHP is out hot and heavy for those idiots.

      There's a time and a place, and in the middle of nowhere when everyone is still asleep is a pretty good time and place.

      DSC_7375 by Merzdoms, on Flickr

      from hushy.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. Assetto Corsa Discord Link. Join us for some sim racing fun.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. Iíll be there, front row.

    24. Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      Gatineau, Quebec
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      2012 Mustang GT, 1986 Mazda RX-7 GX
      03-23-2020 06:39 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Still like the color combo on that 86.

      I mean NorCal is pretty amazing. SoCal might beat it for car culture, but I rank the roads similarly.

      I'm not in jail because I'm not going 100 mph down the sections of road that the cops patrol. I laugh at the new money guys who buy a McLaren, decide to go to the coast, and get pulled over going 2x the speed limit on a boring road and go to jail and get their car impounded. That's just silly, and reckless. Or guys who try and hang their car loose on The Snake and find CHP sitting right there. CHP is out hot and heavy for those idiots.

      There's a time and a place, and in the middle of nowhere when everyone is still asleep is a pretty good time and place.
      He has a point though. I took a trip from Seattle to Portland last year in an 86 and it was a life-changing experience. A lot of us simply do not have those kinds of roads to have fun with. That said, even then I was not wanting for more power than the 86 provided.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    25. Member
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      small car that does it all, incredibly reliable too
      03-23-2020 07:33 PM #74
      This thread makes me wonder when was the last time Datsun/Nissan dealers were marking up the stickers on Z cars? We all know it started with the 240Z. I can't recall it happening on other Z cars though.

    26. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      LS3 Malibu, Mid Engined Camry
      03-23-2020 08:07 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      He has a point though. I took a trip from Seattle to Portland last year in an 86 and it was a life-changing experience. A lot of us simply do not have those kinds of roads to have fun with. That said, even then I was not wanting for more power than the 86 provided.
      Very true. The roads I get to explore are amazing, and the ones I know well are some of the best I've ever driven.

      Drive those same roads for 20 years, and you might have a different opinion about the 86, but I hear what you're saying. Everyone likes what they like. Hushy loves his BRZ, it would personally drive me up the wall, yet his BRZ and my SS flow down a road at the same pace. Different approach to the same goal of having fun. He hasn't died climbing a hill from a lack of torque, and I find the SS usable even with almost 500 hp, so not everything TCL says about power is correct.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. Assetto Corsa Discord Link. Join us for some sim racing fun.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. Iíll be there, front row.

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