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    Thread: The ultimate riding machine

    1. Member
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      04-03-2020 09:18 PM #1
      Quote Originally Posted by Jezza
      Power and Speed solves many things
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    3. Member AHTOXA's Avatar
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      04-03-2020 11:38 PM #2
      I highly suspect that BMW has nothing to do with the actual bike in and of itself. Gravel or "allroad" bikes are super hot now and in general, bicycles outside of a department store are a luxury, with top tier prices that surpass some of the cheapest new cars on the NA market. So I guess it makes sense from a marketing perspective for BMW.

      That said, I'm a huge gravel (ahem - allroad) bike fan. It's basically what bikes used to be when I was a kid - versatile, comfortable with more relaxed geometry that's not solely focused on speed but also on durability. You can mount racks and fenders to them. A gravel bike is my street bike for when the trails are wet and the trail bike stays home. And the best thing is I don't have to own a skin suit or shave my legs to ride one.

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      04-03-2020 11:44 PM #3
      Buy GREAT bicycle from a REAL bicycle manufacturer...
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    5. Member DonPatrizio's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 12:28 AM #4
      The real cyclist will be riding a $10k bike while driving a $5k car.
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      04-04-2020 06:49 AM #5
      The exploro has been available long before a bmw version

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      04-04-2020 07:59 AM #6
      Yeah let's make this the TCL bike thread, car branded bikes ALWAYS suck.

      I am piecing together a build that should be under 6kg when complete... Very excited. When I switch to tubulars I'm hoping to get under 5.5. Will keep an old bike for my indoor trainer

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      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

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      04-04-2020 09:45 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Yeah let's make this the TCL bike thread, car branded bikes ALWAYS suck.

      I am piecing together a build that should be under 6kg when complete... Very excited. When I switch to tubulars I'm hoping to get under 5.5. Will keep an old bike for my indoor trainer
      What? Did you not see the Jetta Trek? That was awesome!

      Okay, I was actually chuckling while typing that.

      Good luck on the build!
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      small car that does it all, incredibly reliable too
      04-04-2020 02:15 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by DonPatrizio View Post
      The real cyclist will be riding a $10k bike while driving a $5k car.
      From what I found BMW is asking $5499 for the bike. The funny thing is you can pick this Bimmer up for $4750. It's lightweight @ 349 pounds and is good for 70 MPG too. It's tiny engine (313cc) is good for 34 HP. Sounds like more fun to me than the pedal powered Bimmer.


    10. Member AHTOXA's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 02:36 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by antilock View Post
      From what I found BMW is asking $5499 for the bike. The funny thing is you can pick this Bimmer up for $4750. It's lightweight @ 349 pounds and is good for 70 MPG too. It's tiny engine (313cc) is good for 34 HP. Sounds like more fun to me than the pedal powered Bimmer.
      I really wonder how much profit margin there is in high end bicycles. Although I certainly get it - an even more niche market than motorcycles requires greater cost per unit to recoup the expenses of labor, materials, production, etc. My hunch says that the margin isn't as big as it seems although I understand how it could be hard to justify $5k for 'just' a bicycle.

    11. Member mcbaker55's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 03:40 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by antilock View Post
      From what I found BMW is asking $5499 for the bike. The funny thing is you can pick this Bimmer up for $4750. It's lightweight @ 349 pounds and is good for 70 MPG too. It's tiny engine (313cc) is good for 34 HP. Sounds like more fun to me than the pedal powered Bimmer.

      This is a perfect example of how absurd the price of a nice bicycle has become.

      mb

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      04-04-2020 03:45 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by AHTOXA View Post
      I really wonder how much profit margin there is in high end bicycles. Although I certainly get it - an even more niche market than motorcycles requires greater cost per unit to recoup the expenses of labor, materials, production, etc. My hunch says that the margin isn't as big as it seems although I understand how it could be hard to justify $5k for 'just' a bicycle.
      I think there's still a good bit of margin. To a degree someone buying a four or five figure bicycle for recreational use doesn't care about the price. And a lot of these buyers change bikes frequently. It's great if you're willing to buy used.

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      04-04-2020 04:05 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by mcbaker55 View Post
      This is a perfect example of how absurd the price of a nice bicycle has become.

      mb
      It's not really different than the high end of any other hobby--they're not charging the functional worth of the bicycle, they charge what they're worth to the bleeding-edge enthusiast. If somebody lives and breathes bicycles and has the disposable income, there are some incremental benefits of a $10k bike that can make it worth it for them.

      On the other hand, it's not like the existence of those $10k bikes ruin cycling for those that can't afford them. The most fun I've ever had riding was broke in college on <$1k bikes, paid for by working odd jobs on the weekend. If someone just wants a decent hobby-grade bike at a reasonable price, I'd say that the $1k price point has had decent options at for at least 25+ years now, and even as inflation has made $1k worth considerably less in that time, the bikes at that price keep getting better.

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      04-04-2020 04:11 PM #13
      Yea, you absolutely don't have to spend anywhere near $6K to get a nice new road bike. I think $1K is enough to get an aluminum road bike with a decent groupset, or a carbon bike with an OK one. Either will be really nice.

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      04-04-2020 04:13 PM #14
      Car brand bike is built for someone like Hawk to show off how much bonus $$ he can spend for car related stuff....
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      04-04-2020 04:13 PM #15
      new bikes don't have a lot of margin for the bike shop. Like a car dealership, it is to get people to use their service department which have higher margins, which really pays the bills.

      My 4-figure bike is 10 years old ($1200 when it was new), since I liked the shifting of the 105 better than the Tiagra (9-speed) or Sora (8-speed) which why I paid extra. Over the years, aside from tune-ups, it's got a XT rear derailleur to run a 32T cassette, going from Look to Speedplay pedals, some Mavic Kysrium Elite wheels, some saddles, and new a carbon fiber seatpost.

      It's about time to get a carbon fiber framed bike next.
      Quote Originally Posted by Jezza
      Power and Speed solves many things
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    17. Member
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      04-04-2020 04:21 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by ghost03 View Post
      It's not really different than the high end of any other hobby--they're not charging the functional worth of the bicycle, they charge what they're worth to the bleeding-edge enthusiast. If somebody lives and breathes bicycles and has the disposable income, there are some incremental benefits of a $10k bike that can make it worth it for them.

      On the other hand, it's not like the existence of those $10k bikes ruin cycling for those that can't afford them. The most fun I've ever had riding was broke in college on <$1k bikes, paid for by working odd jobs on the weekend. If someone just wants a decent hobby-grade bike at a reasonable price, I'd say that the $1k price point has had decent options at for at least 25+ years now, and even as inflation has made $1k worth considerably less in that time, the bikes at that price keep getting better.
      This. Today's Shimano 105 is lightyears ahead of the Dura Ace components of just a few years ago (basically the same way that a 2020 Corolla has way more tech than a 2000 Lexus LS, etc.).

      What cracks me up about this thread is that it's sort of the exact opposite way that I think--I used to be so willing to drop a few grand modding a depreciating GTI, whereas now I can do HUGE upgrades on my bikes for fractions of that. Even gratuitous bling is much cheaper than anything car-related.

      Bikes are much like cars in that there are marginal returns as you go higher up the price ladder. There will always be performance bargains and used deals and high-end stuff that's more about how it feels than the numbers that some major bleeding edge manufacturer pushes on us.

      The 3T Exploro is a really cool bike and all BMW did was slap its name and a paint job on it.

      I'm very willing to go all the way down the bike rabbit hole in this thread, but I will end for now by saying this: for well under $10k you can have a single made-in-USA framebuilder make something to your specifications and do all the work yourself and have a fun/fitness machine that teaches you mechanical skills and provides direct tactile pleasure for years to come. For $1-2k, you can put together a really rad bike that does 99% of all the same stuff. Both numbers are pretty dang democratic to me coming from the car world. It's not really a direct comparison; I love cars and I love bikes. I've been hit by a car while riding a bike. Tactility, testing my own limits, and mechanical art are some of my favorite things about the human experience and I love seeing how many TCLers share those passions.

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      04-04-2020 05:42 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by johntesi View Post
      I've been hit by a car while riding a bike.:
      Same here, and it was by a Toyota Highlander too, surprisingly I wasn't hurt. The Highlander made contact with my rear wheel and bent it like a pretzel but it didn't make physical contact with me. The senior citizen driving the Highlander didn't even know he hit me but other people saw him hit me and chased after him and brought him back to the scene of the accident.

    19. Member Samson's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 06:31 PM #18
      I like how it's an aero bike with MTB platform pedals. I'm surprised there's not a dropper and some custom tweed framebags.

      But yeah, (expensive) marginal gains are pretty much the lifeblood of the bike industry. Wait, I can save 150g and 7 watts at 40kph for only $1,500? Let's do it! The guy on youtube told me it's true!

      $5499 is less that I'd have thought for a BMW Exploro, but I guess the build isn't anything special.

    20. 04-04-2020 07:00 PM #19
      Too fancy. I would prefer this BMW bike


    21. Member DonPatrizio's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 08:22 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by BsickPassat View Post
      new bikes don't have a lot of margin for the bike shop. Like a car dealership, it is to get people to use their service department which have higher margins, which really pays the bills.

      My 4-figure bike is 10 years old ($1200 when it was new), since I liked the shifting of the 105 better than the Tiagra (9-speed) or Sora (8-speed) which why I paid extra. Over the years, aside from tune-ups, it's got a XT rear derailleur to run a 32T cassette, going from Look to Speedplay pedals, some Mavic Kysrium Elite wheels, some saddles, and new a carbon fiber seatpost.

      It's about time to get a carbon fiber framed bike next.
      If you haven't yet it's well worth it. I was super lucky to score my bike with CF frame and 105s for $1300 brand new. It doesn't have the Specialized name but I'm not planning on selling it anyway.
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      04-04-2020 08:36 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by DonPatrizio View Post
      If you haven't yet it's well worth it. I was super lucky to score my bike with CF frame and 105s for $1300 brand new. It doesn't have the Specialized name but I'm not planning on selling it anyway.
      I've been riding carbon for a long time now, though not as long as some for sure. My first full carbon bike was the Look 595 road bike I bought in 2008, followed that up with a Scott Scale hardtail mountain bike, then a Focus Mares carbon CX bike and a Giant Anthem dual suspension XC bike. I still have all of them other than the Giant as I don't do enough rough condition moutain biking to justify keeping it and I'm a hardtail kinda guy, I like to stand and hammer. Why I say all that is that I've got lots of carbon experience and now that I'm more of a recreational fun cyclist than a hammerhead weekend warrior race guy I much prefer steel to carbon. I've got a steel Pashley city bike, my fatbike is a steel Surly, and most of my "mountain" bike riding is done on a steel Kona Explosif. I like the ride of steel better, it's zingy, has a lively feel to it and to my eyes just looks better.

      For me carbon bikes are for if you are hell bent on racing, where 20 seconds per hour of racing matter, where you're already 7% body fat or less. But for an all around bike I'd take a steel (or Ti, but I've never ridden Ti) over carbon any day.

      As for the BMW Exploro, meh. Never been a fan of car company branded bikes, even the Ferrari Colgagos that have been done, again I'd much rather have a Colnago Master.

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      04-04-2020 10:00 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by KrisA View Post
      For me carbon bikes are for if you are hell bent on racing, where 20 seconds per hour of racing matter, where you're already 7% body fat or less. But for an all around bike I'd take a steel (or Ti, but I've never ridden Ti) over carbon any day.
      I have a few different frame materials in the quiver; they all have their strengths and weaknesses and while carbon is awesome, I agree that it's not the be-all-end-all that some make it out to be. Often I actually find the frame material secondary to the design of the bike--I'd much rather be on the 'right bike' at the right time as opposed to one of any particular material. As an example, my favorite lightweight road bike right now is actually aluminum--Allez Sprint Disc, aggressive as all get out yet reasonably priced:


      And ironically my favorite All-Mountain MTB is Carbon--Evil Calling:


      Quote Originally Posted by KrisA
      As for the BMW Exploro, meh. Never been a fan of car company branded bikes, even the Ferrari Colgagos that have been done, again I'd much rather have a Colnago Master.
      Agreed--the cross branding doesn't do anything for me either. Riding a Ferrari bike I'd feel like I'm trying to prove something. Riding a Colnago, I'd feel like a man of taste.

    24. Member AHTOXA's Avatar
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      04-04-2020 10:02 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
      I like how it's an aero bike with MTB platform pedals.
      In many ways, some (many) of the gravel bikes today are MTB frames of days gone by and drop bars. The geometry is different than that of the road bike by being longer, lower and slacker.

      History repeats itself.

    25. Member Samson's Avatar
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      04-05-2020 09:10 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by AHTOXA View Post
      In many ways, some (many) of the gravel bikes today are MTB frames of days gone by and drop bars. The geometry is different than that of the road bike by being longer, lower and slacker.

      History repeats itself.
      Oh, I know. Here's my "gravel" bike. It's exactly that. I just found it funny that a bike that has had quite a lot of aerodynamics work put into it has platforms and a dude in a suit riding it.


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      04-05-2020 09:36 AM #25
      Samson with the dropbarbraap

      The 3T Exploro is literally marketed as an Aero Gravel bike, which is oxymoronic but meh - I drank the purple cool-aid and it’s delicious.

      I also have aero-ish carbon fatbike wheels - silly, but also delicious cool-aid
      Last edited by rammalammadingdong; 04-05-2020 at 09:39 AM.

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