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    Thread: B1 16V Build, or something slightly different

    1. Member
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      TT225, 76 Dasher, 2014 Golf
      05-21-2020 02:14 PM #1
      Figured it was time to share my build here. As of this writing, the motor is still being assembled, and the car itself is far from done. It's literally an empty shell. I will update this thread with a link to the car build.
      This car has been a project since 1998. It has had many years of being on the back burner.

      Lot's of builds have been posted here, and mine won't be groundbreaking or awe inspiring I'm sure, but it will have some slightly different things done that aren't super common.

      This 9A 16V with PL head is going into a 1976 VW Dasher. Many of you reading this are saying "what's a Dasher?" Well, it's the first generation of Passat, and was called Passat MK1/B1 in the rest of the world. Same car as the Audi Fox, or Audi 80 in the rest of the world.
      Because the engine is going into a Dasher, there are some unique challenges to get the motor to fit, several of which I have not even discovered first hand, but suspect will be interesting as they come up.

      One of the really obvious issues is that the B1 platform is Longitudinal. The motor goes North/South like a RWD car. Yet is still FWD. A marvel of packaging considering the nose doesn't look like it would fit an engine in front of the front wheels.

      With the motor being longitudinal, the hood slope is the biggest problem. I did a mock-up with the Scirocco intake installed, and the hood was 1 inch high in the front. So, I bought a European Audi 80 16V intake, which has oval shaped runners, matching their shape to the intake head ports. This allowed the hood to basically lay flat, but no room for squish when the hood is shut. I was going to have to use different motor mounts, and take a section out of the subframe. Or cut into the hood.
      The Audi based cars of the era had a subframe that goes under the oil pan. You can't just drop the engine out the bottom. The lower A-arms attach to the subframe, so you can imagine I didn't want to lower the subframe. Not ideal.
      So, through the years, I decided to change direction completely.

      I'm now going with twin Weber DCOE carbs.

      I've had the head done and waiting for several years. It was ported and valves reshaped by Steve Hannaford or Progressive Automotive, University Place, WA. He was very familiar with the differences between the 1.8 and 2.0 head.

      The full rotating assembly was balanced by DG Machine, Auburn WA. Clutch, flywheel, rods, pistons, crank, harmonic balancer. I did not do the IM shaft.
      They also installed new Intermediate Shaft bushings, and decked the block - just a skim.
      Flywheel was lightened by a different machinist many years ago.

      So, now you're up to date with where I'm at.

      Ok. Pictures!
      Last edited by B1-16V; 05-21-2020 at 05:25 PM.

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    3. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      '90 Corrado | '62 Harley Panhead
      05-21-2020 02:38 PM #2
      Sounds interesting. I had a silver Dasher for a very brief period back in the day Actually, bought it to flip it at the time. I was a odd duck for sure

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      TT225, 76 Dasher, 2014 Golf
      05-21-2020 02:41 PM #3
      Showing off a somewhat "unicorn" part. This is an alternator bracket from a Quantum Turbo Diesel. As you can see, it mounts to the "back" side of the motor, or what I call passenger side, or hot side. VERY rare part, and it frees up room on the "front" side of the motor for the carbs and radiator. Will be a nice clean engine bay without looking at the eyesore of an alternator.

      The block was prepped on the outside and in the water jacket with Rustoleum rust remover (phosphoric acid).
      Works excellent.



      Block now painted low gloss black.
      I'm pointing out a boss that is drilled but not tapped on the 9A block. I need that spot for the B1 motor mount that goes there. The motor mount I'm using is a standard Dasher mount. That mount was designed for a car with 78 hp. I noticed that the Audi 80 with the 2.0 uses a similar mount, but with an added strut. I didn't feel like paying for one of those to be shipped here, so I built my own strut. The Audi mount would have used the hole that is tapped to the left of my finger. But that makes for a very skinny narrow mount without the strut. I like the Dasher one better, because statically, it's stronger. (as in if I have to take the strut off for some reason while working on the car, it still has triangulated support).









      Last edited by B1-16V; 05-21-2020 at 02:44 PM.

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    6. Member
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      TT225, 76 Dasher, 2014 Golf
      05-21-2020 03:17 PM #4
      Obligatory internal parts shots.
      This was a low mileage block. It was very much in tolerance, in fact had the original cross hatching in the cylinders.
      I did have it re-honed. Just a de-glazing.
      Journals were all very good shape. So this is a standard bearing and ring size rebuild. Plastigage showed perfect tolerance, as well as ring gap.
      All new parts, but of course the pistons and rods are original.



      6 piece main bearings


      Oil Squirters








      New Main OEM bolts, ARP rod bolts.
      Last edited by B1-16V; 05-21-2020 at 09:50 PM.

    7. Member
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      TT225, 76 Dasher, 2014 Golf
      05-21-2020 03:52 PM #5
      The oil pump was checked for lash and end play. Dead center of tolerance. So I'm reusing it.
      It is however a bit scarred up where the vanes go around (the bore surface). It is a LOT worse in pictures than in real size, so I'll give it a shot.

      I'm never one to leave well enough alone, so I've decided to clean some things up while it's apart.

      Just a smoothing of the passages. For the pump and the oil filter housing as well as the port in the block the oil goes back in from the filter housing.
      Will it add horsepower? I won't claim that. Will it hurt? Of course not.
      Will I lay awake at night wondering if I left .5 hp on the table? Nope.

      And for those wondering why the filter housing looks weird, it's at an angle to make way for the clutch cable of a "B" car.
      This particular one came from an 80's Audi if I recall. It has a much larger filter flange, allowing the big filter or the original small one, and also the bosses are already drilled for oil pressure and temp sensors, unlike the 70's Dasher one.

      Pump Before...




      Pump After...




      Oil Filter Mount Before...
      The threaded tube has been radiused on the ends also...




      Oil Filter Mount After, plus a couple spots not pictured...


      Port the oil enters the block from the filter...
      (Note to self - or anyone else thinking of doing this. I should have paid better attention to gasket matching like I usually do. The top area of this port should just be left alone, the oil filter housing is an oval slot, and the top matches the hole in the block perfectly. Just port the bottom of the hole. Oh well, not an issue.)
      Last edited by B1-16V; 05-27-2020 at 02:06 PM.

    8. Member
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      TT225, 76 Dasher, 2014 Golf
      05-21-2020 04:34 PM #6
      I know a lot of people have had issues with leaking sensors on the oil filter housing.
      From the factory, they are not always "turned" flat for a good sealing surface.
      My housing is a good example of this. From the factory, 2 of the surfaces were nice and flat with spun machine marks.
      One of the sealing surfaces was NOT treated from the factory. I imagine it had been a leaker. The theory is backed up by the fact that THAT particular sensor had 2 copper washers on it, and the 2 good surfaces only had 1 washer each.

      I dressed them all, but in particular the one that looked to have an original as-cast finish.

      Here's the original look.
      The port at the 9 o'clock position is "as-cast", and was the one with 2 washers.
      The 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock where machined surfaces.


      After prepping it.




      The tool I used. Just any bolt with a flat bottom under the head, and also with a shaft that will not harm the threads of the housing. An old Fuel bolt was perfect, with its smooth shaft to not scar the threads.
      I placed a ring of sandpaper under the bolt, then chucked up a socket in my hand drill and spun it a couple times. I put a nut inside the socket so I could put pressure on the bolt with sandpaper without bottoming out the socket.




      The results after a cleanup with a Dremel mini wire wheel and a slight touch of aluminum polish.




    9. Member
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      TT225, 76 Dasher, 2014 Golf
      05-21-2020 07:00 PM #7
      Naturally I wanted to use the VW Windage tray with the great rubber built in gasket.
      It takes a bit of modification to use one on a longitudinal car, and even more modding with the very special oil pan I'm using.
      This pan is from an B1 Audi 80 GT. Another unicorn part. Hard to find even a picture of one.
      Bought on German eBay many years ago.

      Mods to the tray. Those familiar with the tray will note the missing material because of the way the B1 sump raises up at the rear to make way for the subframe. Also the oval hole to the left of the pic, making way for one of the many internal oil channels in this pan.




      Pan was a bit rough when I got it.







      All cleaned up.
















      Last edited by B1-16V; 06-04-2020 at 01:14 PM.

    10. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      05-26-2020 02:02 PM #8

    11. Member
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      05-29-2020 01:20 PM #9
      This build has had and will continue to have challenges. One of the issues I'm having right now is figuring out the belt.
      My special alternator bracket basically puts the alternator right in line with the water pump and crank.
      If I use the existing double pulley that came with the 9A, I can run a short V belt directly to the Water Pump but will have no tensioner. I'll have to remove the pulley to put the belt on or off. Being that it's a V belt, I don't see an issue with that. We'll see. I'm thinking I'll be needing some help on finding the right offset pulleys to make all this work.

      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...th-QTD-bracket



    12. Member
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      TT225, 76 Dasher, 2014 Golf
      06-04-2020 01:48 PM #10
      Got the belts figured out. And I already had all the pulleys I needed.
      I'm using the Scirocco Alternator pulley, and the standard 16V double crank pulleys and the standard 16V water pump pulley. Easy as can be.
      The trick was finding the exact length WP pulley. It's a snug fit to slip the pulley over the pump shaft. Not super hard, but doable. If it loosens up over time I can shim the pulley to put a bit of side loading on the belt, or, I may eventually make a custom idler pulley to put a bit of tension on the top of the belt. Project for another day.

      I'm using a MK2 Golf alternator. It has the correct mount width, and has the right frame to mate up with the nice rack and pinion style adjustment bracket also from the MK2 Golf. Neither the Dasher or Scirocco alternator would work with the QTD mount bracket.

      Belts - Alternator is a Continental Contitech AVX10x775, and the WP belt is Continental Contitech AVX10x617.

      I have since learned that there is such thing as split pulleys, that take shims inside them to make the pulley wider or more narrow. Effectively making the belt longer or shorter. I'm blown away, I've been wrenching on VW's since 1992, and I've never had one that had split pulleys. Wow. So, anyone doing this non tensioned setup, do research on that. lol.

      So, most of that info won't mean a thing to 99% of those reading this, but hope others doing a 16V Longitudinal with Carbs can use this info someday. (Yes, there are a couple out there doing this besides me.)





      Last edited by B1-16V; 06-04-2020 at 02:17 PM.

    13. Member
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      06-05-2020 10:10 PM #11
      outstanding.
      WTB: NOS OEM Driver side -'big-bumper' side skirt. WTB NOS OEM 7 slat single round grill.

    14. Member
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      TT225, 76 Dasher, 2014 Golf
      06-06-2020 03:14 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by trn905 View Post
      outstanding.
      Thanks. Lots of fun.

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      06-08-2020 11:33 AM #13
      I used to have one of those oil pans.

      As for split pulleys, I do not work on Porsches often but the last one I put belts on had that type of belt adjustment. I believe it was on a 96 911. The first time I ran across it was in the late 70's working on a VW bug. I never understood why people liked those. I still don't.

      The shims were suppose to be used on the inside and outside of the pulley. That way, if you needed to make an adjustment in the future, the outside shims were there to help you out. Better than being in your tool box.

    16. Member
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      06-08-2020 03:16 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
      I used to have one of those oil pans.

      As for split pulleys, I do not work on Porsches often but the last one I put belts on had that type of belt adjustment. I believe it was on a 96 911. The first time I ran across it was in the late 70's working on a VW bug. I never understood why people liked those. I still don't.

      The shims were suppose to be used on the inside and outside of the pulley. That way, if you needed to make an adjustment in the future, the outside shims were there to help you out. Better than being in your tool box.
      Yes, they seem to be pretty elusive. Especially the shims.
      It seems Vanagons used them too.
      Seems like a good concept, if used correctly.

    17. Member
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      06-22-2020 02:48 PM #15
      Had to tackle a little dilemma. This build is always going to throw a curve ball at me, but I'm enjoying it. I love this type of stuff.

      The front motor mount on a longitudinal car is similar to what the transverse guys are familiar with on a Rabbit if I recall.
      Using the Quantum Turbo Diesel alternator mount created a situation for the snubber mount.
      I cut part of it away, and re-gusseted the mount.

      I've since learned that a Dasher Diesel alternator mount might have been the more simple route, and it has a different snubber mount seemingly incorporated into it. Might have been easier, hard to say.








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      06-22-2020 06:22 PM #16
      Again, not looking for anything miraculous here, just making for a smoother flow.


      Water neck before...




      Water neck after...




      Water pump before...







      Water pump after... I also smoothed the outside of the nipples where the hoses go, but didn't get pics of that.





    19. Member
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      06-22-2020 06:33 PM #17
      I had some issues with matching the ports of my head to the carb intake. You can check out that adventure here.

      Here's the results of that.



      Exhaust side - gaskets matched the head and header, so no adjustment there.



      I had to drill and tap a fitting for the brake booster hose. I drilled part way vertical, then drilled up diagonally to meet that vertical hole.


    20. Member
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      TT225, 76 Dasher, 2014 Golf
      06-22-2020 06:42 PM #18
      I ended up getting a TWM water neck purchased from Pierce Manifolds. Very nice people.

      When using carburetors, the stock water neck comes out at an angle, and runs into the bottom of one of the carbs. I thought about having it modified, but the price from Pierce was moderate, and in line with a custom welded one. I can't do aluminum welding, so, I "bought not built" this time.

      The neck, as it comes, has a very skinny groove for the special shaped "O" ring gasket. Gasket would not fit the groove, so I put a little ball shaped burr in my dremel and made it wider to fit the gasket. Of course I did my usual treatment on the inside and outside of the fitting to smooth flow and make for a smooth hose mating surface.







      The TWM water neck cleared the carb bodies, but I wanted to use "bottom mount" linkage. I found that the linkage was in the way of the water neck, so I swapped the carbs, and now the linkage is on the left side, instead of the right. That also solved a couple other issues at the same time.
      Just a pic of the linkage in the wrong spot. More to come later.



      Last edited by B1-16V; 06-22-2020 at 06:47 PM.

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      06-22-2020 06:51 PM #19
      Big day for me. The head is ON!
      Keep in mind, this has been a 22 year build.
      The overall project, not the engine itself. So, ya, I'm excited.


      ARP head studs, metal gasket.






    22. Member flowmastergfunk's Avatar
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      08-10-2020 06:13 PM #20
      Man, I have been searching for that alternator mount for a crow's age. That's actually what led me here haha. I knew the cast version existed, but I have never even seen such a clear picture of one, let alone a part number. It is crucial for my vision on the diesel fox wagon. Beautiful work!! Loving the details. Port, polish or paint every part

      LMK if you ever feel like recasting replicas of that bracket

    23. Member
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      08-11-2020 01:51 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by flowmastergfunk View Post
      Man, I have been searching for that alternator mount for a crow's age. That's actually what led me here haha. I knew the cast version existed, but I have never even seen such a clear picture of one, let alone a part number. It is crucial for my vision on the diesel fox wagon. Beautiful work!! Loving the details. Port, polish or paint every part

      LMK if you ever feel like recasting replicas of that bracket
      I got this bracket from a guy on eBay that I used to know personally. Great guy, but he moved far from me. Check him out, and maybe send him a message to see if he can find another one. He, like us, has a love for the odd ducks.

      bry8s2003

      I was originally thinking of making a bracket from steel, and just welding it up. I did notice on a friends diesel Dasher (stock, OEM) that they had a similar bracket made of steel, but I'm not 100% certain if that one would work for you, or me. I believe it would. That one MIGHT be slightly easier to find. There were a lot more Diesel Dashers with no AC and of course no PS, than there were QTD with no AC or PS.
      Maybe a good solution would be cardboard templates and find someone with a water jet or something.

      Thanks for the kind words about the project, I really appreciate that.

    24. Member flowmastergfunk's Avatar
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      09-15-2020 03:59 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by B1-16V View Post
      I got this bracket from a guy on eBay that I used to know personally. Great guy, but he moved far from me. Check him out, and maybe send him a message to see if he can find another one. He, like us, has a love for the odd ducks.

      bry8s2003

      I was originally thinking of making a bracket from steel, and just welding it up. I did notice on a friends diesel Dasher (stock, OEM) that they had a similar bracket made of steel, but I'm not 100% certain if that one would work for you, or me. I believe it would. That one MIGHT be slightly easier to find. There were a lot more Diesel Dashers with no AC and of course no PS, than there were QTD with no AC or PS.
      Maybe a good solution would be cardboard templates and find someone with a water jet or something.

      Thanks for the kind words about the project, I really appreciate that.
      I appreciate the lead! Every time I scour the internet for a diesel dasher, the owner either doesn't wrench/want to wrench...or just flat out doesn't want to sell parts separately. Ironically, I have the Dasher diesel lower bracket, which is just three holes in an L shaped bracket... the easiest one to make. I would be much more motivated to make multiples if I had one as a template...I would blue print it like a champ! But as far as reinventing the wheel from scratch, It would have been much easier while I had it on a stand! I don't care to fab in such a tight space, and I am NOT taking out the manifolds again haha.

      For now, I just have a belt stretched from the crank to the water pump, and it's fine. I also learned about the split pulley system, which is something I had gotten used to with aircoolers. I discovered that Vanagons have split water pump pulleys, and I believe they may have also come in two hub sizes like our waterpumps.

      I just drive the Fox like a hybrid. Just hook it up to the charger at the end of the day, and all is well. Good old diesel... it really don't ask for much, if you don't ask much of it.

      I am just about ready to sell the little wagon, but you could guess how easy it is to sell a car with no alternator. I finally found a bracket that I believe can be modified, but I am still reaching out to a few more sources before I actually give up hope and start grinding.

      On that note (should anyone else show up here in the same boat) ACME adapters has a passenger side mount for a GM alternator. Unfortunately, it was built with a Suzuki Samuri in mind, and not our front snub mount. It does look l usable with some modification to lower the alt, but it's a fair chunk of change for something you would have to hack into. If I ever get a blue print made, I will certainly share my findings.

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      09-16-2020 02:02 PM #23







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