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    Thread: Introducing The All-New 2021 Acura TLX - Type S

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      08-24-2020 10:41 PM #351
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      vs.




      Does not equal:




      I do not know how this is unclear. It is even more askew by the fact that the c43/S4/340i are highlight underrated from the factory. They all produce at least 400hp at the crank.



      The same power/displacement ratio on the 2.0T (136hp/liter) gives you 408 horsepower out of the 3.0T. If the 2.0T can overpower its 2.0T competition, why is it crazy to expect that out of the 3.0T performance model? How is this unreasonable?
      The Civic Type-R and Accord 2.0T are faster than the power output would indicate. There is no reason to expect the TLX to buck this trend. As for the value proposition, you are really splitting hairs here. The performance for the 2.0T is going to be within the realm (maybe a bit faster, maybe not) of the entry level C/A4/3. The performance for the Type-S is going to be within the realm (maybe a bit faster, maybe not) of the C43/S4/M340i. In both cases, the TLX is giving you more space at a discount. In the case of the Type-S vs. C43/S4/M340i, it's as much as a 20% discount. I would say the value propositions between the two engine tiers are shaping up to be quite similar.

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    3. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      08-25-2020 12:39 AM #352
      Quote Originally Posted by unhappymeal View Post
      The Civic Type-R and Accord 2.0T are faster than the power output would indicate. There is no reason to expect the TLX to buck this trend. As for the value proposition, you are really splitting hairs here. The performance for the 2.0T is going to be within the realm (maybe a bit faster, maybe not) of the entry level C/A4/3. The performance for the Type-S is going to be within the realm (maybe a bit faster, maybe not) of the C43/S4/M340i. In both cases, the TLX is giving you more space at a discount. In the case of the Type-S vs. C43/S4/M340i, it's as much as a 20% discount. I would say the value propositions between the two engine tiers are shaping up to be quite similar.
      I mean the Civic Type-R and Accord are right where you'd expect them to be given their power outputs and drivetrains. A 300+ horsepower lightweight hatchback that can't break 5 seconds 0-60 (due entirely to it being FWD) is not something to write home about, but the car is obviously a track monster and a blast to drive. Similarly, 0-60 in ~5.6 seconds is about dead-in-line with a what a sporty, turbocharged, ~270hp sedan should do. Not ragging on either of these cars -- they are my favorite cars in Honda's lineup. But let's not get nuts.

      Crazy is the BMW M340i that apparently only makes 380hp and goes 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. In reality, it produces ~430-440hp (which is how it is so quick).

      And as I have said, the Type-S could end up being a sleeper. If so, I will eat my words and gladly line up to buy one. But if Acura really had a monster on its hands, it would push it harder. If Acura really wanted to make an entrance and re-birth to an iconic brand, they would have pushed the envelope. This feels like a safe move. A tarted up TLX with a few more horsepower, a bit tighter suspension, and few extra badges. This is Acura being Acura -- instead of finally saying "**** it" and turning the dial up to "11," they've turned it up to 6.5 and are banking on enough people cross-shopping it to drive some sales. That's just my take. We'll see how it plays out.
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      08-25-2020 07:47 AM #353
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      So you are comparing Acura's first "Type-S" high performance sport sedan in years against a mid-size family-hauler lease BMW?

      I do acknowledge, btw, that the TLX is almost as large as the 540i.
      Didn't want to come off rude but TLX is one big car and it's just physics, no way in hell it will be able to do low 4s to 60 as M340i does. Unless there is some LC that adjusts first two gear ratios for super quick off the line acceleration I don't see this car being quicker than 540i xDrive. M550i is whole another league being $20K more expensive than Type-S at the very start let alone after the options so it's a no go.

      I'm glad we came full circle finally acknowledging that 5er is a family hauler like it has always been. Fifteen years ago people were going crazy when you told em that, they were trying too hard to convince you 5 is a disguised supercar in a five-door shell.

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      08-25-2020 08:44 AM #354
      Quote Originally Posted by texghost View Post
      Didn't want to come off rude but TLX is one big car and it's just physics, no way in hell it will be able to do low 4s to 60 as M340i does. Unless there is some LC that adjusts first two gear ratios for super quick off the line acceleration I don't see this car being quicker than 540i xDrive. M550i is whole another league being $20K more expensive than Type-S at the very start let alone after the options so it's a no go.

      I'm glad we came full circle finally acknowledging that 5er is a family hauler like it has always been. Fifteen years ago people were going crazy when you told em that, they were trying too hard to convince you 5 is a disguised supercar in a five-door shell.

      To be fair, 15 years ago the 5 is what the 3 is today, essentially. And the V10 in the M5 was truly special.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

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      08-25-2020 09:52 AM #355
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Even at its absolute best the G was a value play. The OG basically offered 545i space and performance for 3 series money. That gap has closed over time, but was still pretty damn big in 2009. G37 was the closest it got, but there was def still a gap.

      Plus to be frank, a lot of the German offerings were not great for quite some time. The F3x just wasn't good. It generated numbers and had the BMW emblem, but that was about it. But they had the badge, aggressive lease subsidies, and X1-4s to carry it through. A4 and C-Class were very meh during the G37's time as well, but German buyers didn't care. Heritage and all that. The game is rigged, and the biggest non German winner (Lexus) won by not playing (ES/RX).
      The Germans worked their asses off the next several years launching tons of new models, and trying to incrementally improve anything that was "meh" because they didn't like how close the Japanese had gotten. Meanwhile the Japanese stood still, trying to sell off of their reliability rep and low prices, wanting to increase margins without increasing desirability.

      The reality is that the public got some great cars from the Japanese premium brands when they were still trying to win. That's what I'm saying.

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      08-25-2020 10:00 AM #356
      Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw79 View Post
      The Germans worked their asses off the next several years launching tons of new models, and trying to incrementally improve anything that was "meh" because they didn't like how close the Japanese had gotten. Meanwhile the Japanese stood still, trying to sell off of their reliability rep and low prices, wanting to increase margins without increasing desirability.

      The reality is that the public got some great cars from the Japanese premium brands when they were still trying to win. That's what I'm saying.
      I guess it depends on whether you believe that the Japanese gain much by continuing to close the gap. There were several instances where the Japanese straight up leapfrogged the Europeans and that didn't get them much, so I'm not sure why you'd expect a different result now.

      Plus what matters to buyers has changed a bit, and while BMW M is selling the most vehicles ever or w/e I don't think performance is what moves volume. People don't care as much about driving or performance as they used to.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

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      09-24-2020 10:09 AM #357

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      09-24-2020 10:11 AM #358
      So weird, my local dealer posted yesterday that cars started appearing (Facebook ad) at the dealerships but you can’t build and price on Acura.com. So strange.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
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      09-24-2020 10:17 AM #359
      Yikes @ that review

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      09-24-2020 10:21 AM #360
      As a former fan of Honda/Acura they just need to give it up. They don't know how to do luxury. Just throw AWD on the Accord and call it a day. The interior on this is just too busy. And the tech can't compete with Genesis let alone the Germans.

      FWIW, I say this as someone who has owned 3 Hondas as well as a 2nd generation TL. The competition is just more compelling, especially in 2020. Acura doesn't excel at anything these days. Not value. Definitely not reliability anymore. Not sportiness. Not luxury. Not styling (this doesn't look that much better than the outgoing model in spite of the hype). They keep trying to take on the big boys and just don't seem to know how.

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      Last edited by BLK9GEN; 09-24-2020 at 10:25 AM.
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      '16 TLX SH-AWD- NA is BEST
      09-24-2020 10:22 AM #361
      C&D:

      https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

      Not sure why they say by the numbers as they didn't do official testing on it. A couple of things stick out to me:

      - 3800lb base curb weight for the 4 banger
      - Tight back seat
      - Estimated performance is pretty much dead on with my V6

      Def curious to see what the 4 popper does with better tires. But man, the Type-S is gonna be well over 4000lb at this rate, which is def gonna put a damper on performance. I can already hear the write off reasons cueing up.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

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      09-24-2020 10:41 AM #362
      Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw79 View Post
      Yikes @ that review

      Can we review the reviewers? Yikes.

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      09-24-2020 10:58 AM #363
      Appears that color makes all the difference to Auto Blog

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      09-24-2020 11:30 AM #364
      Motor Trend:

      2021 Acura TLX First Drive Review: Can It Hang With the Big Boys? We Think So.
      Slick suspension and killer audio up the TLX’s game.

      Sep 24, 2020
      The 2021 Acura TLX is begging for the attention of buyers contemplating purchase of an Audi A4, BMW 3 Series, or Mercedes-Benz C-Class. The cries for attention range from the obvious—flashy Type S Concept sheet metal and an actual Type S performance variant coming next year—to the subtle, a return to a proper control-arm front suspension and a new Panasonic/ELS Studio 3D audio system that's a match for any fancy Euro-branded audio setup out there. Is it worthy of the attention it so desperately seeks?

      continues... https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...-drive-review/

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      09-24-2020 11:40 AM #365
      Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw79 View Post
      Yikes @ that review
      $50k Cdn for A-Spec is the exact price for the Canada top of the line Stinger GT Limited (equal GT2 w/ AWD in US). And $5000 Cdn cheaper for GT (same as GT w/AWD in US) which is still spec closer than Type S than A spec with 3.3 V6 TT + AWD.

      This car is as expensive as VW Arteon in Canada and the Type S will be even more expensive. I really don't see it can compete with the German. It can't even compete with the Korean (the Asian German). Of course as a Honda+ product, it will still sell.
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      09-24-2020 12:28 PM #366
      Quote Originally Posted by gonzo08452 View Post
      Can we review the reviewers? Yikes.
      Obvious product placement quipes aside I enjoy their reviews.

      So can we accept this as another DOA Acura 'good enough' sedan?

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      09-24-2020 12:38 PM #367
      Quote Originally Posted by BLK9GEN View Post
      As a former fan of Honda/Acura they just need to give it up. They don't know how to do luxury. Just throw AWD on the Accord and call it a day. The interior on this is just too busy. And the tech can't compete with Genesis let alone the Germans.

      FWIW, I say this as someone who has owned 3 Hondas as well as a 2nd generation TL. The competition is just more compelling, especially in 2020. Acura doesn't excel at anything these days. Not value. Definitely not reliability anymore. Not sportiness. Not luxury. Not styling (this doesn't look that much better than the outgoing model in spite of the hype). They keep trying to take on the big boys and just don't seem to know how.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      Motor Trend:

      2021 Acura TLX First Drive Review: Can It Hang With the Big Boys? We Think So.
      Slick suspension and killer audio up the TLX’s game.

      Sep 24, 2020
      Can't both be right.
      2.0T+034efi+meth = 300+whp = RIP

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      Everyone always praises function over form until the form is something that they don't like

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      09-24-2020 12:48 PM #368
      Maybe it’s because my commute went from 35 miles one way to 6 to .75 to a flight of stairs, but I can’t get excited about anything in this category anymore. $40-60k sporty sedans used to be my favorite category, but now it just seems to be a ton of money to spend on something that really only does like one thing well. Any decent CUV in this category is going to drive more or less as well (does an X3 or RDX drive a lot worse than a 330i or TLX? I say no, on normal streets) and carry more cargo, etc. And nothing in this category seems worth the 50-100% markup versus a top-level CamCord.

      Just seems like there’s no need to be excited about this category anymore. Oh well I guess
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      09-24-2020 01:10 PM #369
      We really need to wait for the Type-S, but at this rate, it will likely be a 4,000lb 350ish horsepower boat that handles alright, accelerates alright, and has lots of Type-S badging. And even that isn't the end of the world -- it's still cooler than the current (exiting) TLX.

      I am just re-iterating my initial impression, though, of why the hell can't Acura make something actually exciting? It's like it is institutionally mandated over at Acura that exciting cars might make the brand edgy or appealing, and they'd rather be the Japanese Buick.

      Anyway, we'll wait and see. The Type-S might still be a pleasant surprise.
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      09-24-2020 01:13 PM #370
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Maybe it’s because my commute went from 35 miles one way to 6 to .75 to a flight of stairs, but I can’t get excited about anything in this category anymore. $40-60k sporty sedans used to be my favorite category, but now it just seems to be a ton of money to spend on something that really only does like one thing well. Any decent CUV in this category is going to drive more or less as well (does an X3 or RDX drive a lot worse than a 330i or TLX? I say no, on normal streets) and carry more cargo, etc. And nothing in this category seems worth the 50-100% markup versus a top-level CamCord.

      Just seems like there’s no need to be excited about this category anymore. Oh well I guess
      This particular car comes across as really bloated in both cost and tech, when it should be simple and refined.

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      09-24-2020 01:36 PM #371
      Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw79 View Post
      Yikes @ that review
      The transmission is a big letdown. C&D and Autoblog also confirmed what was in that video.

      The 10-speed serves admirably across the Honda and Acura lineups, but the programming and responses aren't much different here than they are in, say, an Odyssey minivan. And its lazy reaction to paddle inputs and refusal to hold gears stand out as detriments.
      its responses are too slow in manual mode and a clear step behind several rivals, including the BMW 3 Series, Audi A4 and Alfa Romeo Giulia.

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      09-24-2020 01:52 PM #372
      Yeah, wow at that curb weight. And a lot of it is in the nose apparently so you don't even benefit from in that cabin besides the width. Literally no reason to buy this over 2.0T Accord unless you absolutely had to have AWD. I had high hopes but these initial reviews are not promising at all. If the Type S is going to be 4K+ LBS there isn't a strong case not to just buy a Scat Pack Charger (again unless you NEED AWD). They've clearly negated any benefit of the double wishbone suspension by adding 400 unnecessary Lbs to it.

      Edit: It looks like ~3800lbs is par for the course in this class. May wait for to see what the full performance specs say.
      Last edited by JitteryJoe; 09-24-2020 at 02:04 PM.

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      09-24-2020 01:57 PM #373
      Damn, the Straight Pipes straight roasted that thing, not a great start.

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      09-24-2020 02:16 PM #374
      Anyone know if this is going to have wireless android auto/CarPlay? It wasn't listed on the Acura site in the trim breakdown.

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      09-24-2020 03:10 PM #375
      Quote Originally Posted by hoodlum90 View Post
      The transmission is a big letdown. C&D and Autoblog also confirmed what was in that video.
      This.

      C/D stated the transmission (programming) is basically what one will find in the Odyssey.

      Adequate power, but handicapped by a laggy transmission.

      A big reason why the Germans (the ones that have it) are as good as they are is because of the ZF8.

      The front and dash aren't exactly what would consider striking/appealing (the front lost the sharpness of the concept) and the rear air vents look cheap and not something befitting a model that is trying to straddle the compact and midsize lux segment.
      Last edited by CP1; 09-24-2020 at 03:14 PM.
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