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    Thread: New 2021 Lexus IS will premiere on June 9

    1. Member
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      06-17-2020 06:05 AM #101
      Another vote for 'looks good'

      It's the most cohesive and flowing use of the 'predator' front end treatment. The rear end is more daring than the boring German rivals. Lovely butt in fact.

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      06-17-2020 06:08 AM #102
      Zero reason why this is not sitting on the new Toyota RWD platform. Even if it had to go for only more three years Toyota can swallow the price. Obviously there was some mess up in model planning like it happened with LS few years back. Then we heard Toyota wanted to cancel LS altogether, then they canceled GS and most likely they want to cancel IS as well.

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      06-17-2020 08:13 AM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by texghost View Post
      Zero reason why this is not sitting on the new Toyota RWD platform. Even if it had to go for only more three years Toyota can swallow the price. Obviously there was some mess up in model planning like it happened with LS few years back. Then we heard Toyota wanted to cancel LS altogether, then they canceled GS and most likely they want to cancel IS as well.
      Yeah Toyota's whole RWD car universe is a mess right now. 4 platforms involving 3 different manufacturers
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

    5. Member Yuppie Scum's Avatar
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      06-17-2020 09:12 AM #104
      Good looking car, I still hate the Predator Grill but this is an ok execution if it.

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      06-17-2020 09:54 AM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
      So what's the point of the IS then? Dump it, there's no sense in a RWD platform vehicle if the people that actually buy them don't care and would be perfectly fine with an ES, right?
      RWD is pointless and dumb in everything but real sportscars.

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      06-17-2020 10:36 AM #106
      Quote Originally Posted by chocofrappe55 View Post
      RWD is pointless and dumb in everything but real sportscars.
      So you have finally reached the point where you will say literally anything for a response.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

    8. Member gonzo08452's Avatar
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      06-17-2020 11:43 AM #107
      It looks fantastic. Would drive and be 100% happy with it.

    9. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      06-17-2020 11:50 AM #108
      Quote Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
      So what's the point of the IS then? Dump it, there's no sense in a RWD platform vehicle if the people that actually buy them don't care and would be perfectly fine with an ES, right?
      I think that is essentially what happened and why GS went away and IS is languishing with neglect. ES is the only midsize Lexus sedan that ever made sense. GS and IS sales numbers showed that Lexus buyers are not interested in RWD or good handling/performance, and Toyota can't convince people who cares to buy Lexus no matter how closely they copied the German formula. The mold is cast and the cake has been baked on the brand image of Lexus. There is no way to change public opinion.

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      06-17-2020 11:58 AM #109
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      There is no way to change public opinion.
      I'm guessing the TCL hive-mind reply will be:

      Step 1: Build a world beating & refined RWD sports sedan.
      Step 2: Sell world beating sedan for at least $10,000 less than the Germans.
      Step 3: Revamp every dealership to 5 star hotel standards.
      Step 4: Lose money every month while doing this.
      Step 5: Repeat 1-4 for every model in the lineup and keep this up for decades, let Toyota pay the bills.

      WHY WHY WHY won't Toyota see the writing on the wall and do exactly the above!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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      06-17-2020 12:37 PM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      I'm guessing the TCL hive-mind reply will be:
      Nope, just give the ES an AWD option, put a small amount of marketing behind that, count money.

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      06-17-2020 12:39 PM #111
      Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw79 View Post
      Nope, just give the ES an AWD option, put a small amount of marketing behind that, count money.
      Separatist scum.

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      06-17-2020 12:48 PM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw79 View Post
      Nope, just give the ES an AWD option, put a small amount of marketing behind that, count money.
      Yep! Every V6 equipped Toyota sedan should have rear or all driven wheels. Camry/Avalons included.

      After a valiant 30 year effort it's safe to say Lexus has lost the war against the Germans. But frankly, I'd rather be in the position to sell fancy mainstreamers at high margin than be reliant on being at the cutting edge of tech and performance. To be fair though, all the FWD stuff from BMW/MB shows that a) maybe German car buyers don't really care about drive wheels either and b) German automakers want some of that mainstream brougham action too. I sincerely doubt the average BMW/MB lessee is all that bothered about drive wheels and performance anyway.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

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      06-17-2020 01:13 PM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Yep! Every V6 equipped Toyota sedan should have rear or all driven wheels. Camry/Avalons included.

      After a valiant 30 year effort it's safe to say Lexus has lost the war against the Germans. But frankly, I'd rather be in the position to sell fancy mainstreamers at high margin than be reliant on being at the cutting edge of tech and performance. To be fair though, all the FWD stuff from BMW/MB shows that a) maybe German car buyers don't really care about drive wheels either and b) German automakers want some of that mainstream brougham action too. I sincerely doubt the average BMW/MB lessee is all that bothered about drive wheels and performance anyway.
      I think this is an altogether too flippant analysis and maybe a little self-serving of your other thread. The market and the context changed. It wasn't really Toyota's intention to "take on zee Germans". By the mid-80s, they'd merely matured within the North American market and had long since developed a loyal base of buyers. Toyota knew these customers would get older and have more money, but nowhere within a Toyota store to spend it. The timing was good for them because the German brands had become lazy and complacent farmers instead of hunters. It was about retention, not conquest. At least at first. Their initial success drove a lot of innovation from the brand, but as their management shifted over the decades, they seem to have lost the taste for it. I think trucks and SUVs did more to kill off Lexus' streak than any product misstep. It just became easier to find high margins on regular Toyota trucks and SUVs.
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      06-17-2020 01:30 PM #114
      thing is if youre not going for performance or handling, generally speaking rwd is wasted. You lose a ton of interior volume. When I drove the GS350 F sport its def tuned for safe understeer vs say the tail happy tuning of the BMWs. To put it in perspective the ES has more legroom than even the LS series due to the packaging as aforementioned and the average lexus buyer just wants a good interior, leather, and comfortable space in the back. The IS is trash in this regard.
      Quote Originally Posted by konigwheels View Post
      Wow, it amazes me that we have children in here that can't read a couple paragraphs. No wonder America's doing so well in education! Can't take the time to read, but sure can find the time to post. Self indulgence at it's finest.

      TL;DR should be banned and changed to ID;CR or I'm dumb, can't read.

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      06-17-2020 04:15 PM #115
      I have been reading comments sporadically through this thread, so if someone said this already, I owe you a beer.

      I can't think of any manufacturer where they did an extensive redesign on the exterior, but left the interior largely unchanged as Lexus has done here. It's always been an interior redesign and leaving the rest with minimal change; Jeep Wrangler JK, Dodge Journey, Honda Civic??

    17. Member BlakeV's Avatar
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      06-17-2020 04:27 PM #116
      18 months ago I considered an ES350 but its interior design was the worst part, even if its drivetrain was just ok.

      Redesigned 2018 ES350 are very rarely seen here.

      Lexus also lost its way...

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      06-17-2020 08:17 PM #117
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      I'm guessing the TCL hive-mind reply will be:
      You forgot don’t make it class competitive except for maybe it’s introduction model year, let it wither on the vine, fail to adopt latest tech for years, don’t bother with a full refresh for a decade, wonder what went wrong.

      Lexus has used the same V6 for now 16 model years. Think about that. In the same time BMW has gone through four engines, each one better than the previous one. They haven’t had a full model refresh on a fresh platform since the 2006 lexus, and since this is scheduled for 3-4 years that’ll be 20 years in the same basic chassis.

      Lexus has put all their money into SUV’s with meh results, and is basically an afterthought except for the RX and NX.

      What they do next is beyond me, but that sound they hear is Genesis coming and if they don’t alrerncourse they’re going to get wiped out by them.

    19. Member BlakeV's Avatar
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      06-17-2020 08:40 PM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by vwwtchr View Post

      Lexus has used the same V6 for now 16 model years. Think about that. In the same time BMW has gone through four engines, each one better than the previous one. They haven’t had a full model refresh on a fresh platform since the 2006 lexus, and since this is scheduled for 3-4 years that’ll be 20 years in the same basic chassis.
      Wasn't it a rumor that the Supra I6 engine (read BMW) would find its way in the IS?

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      06-17-2020 09:14 PM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by vwwtchr View Post
      In the same time BMW has gone through four engines, each one better than the previous one. They haven’t had a full model refresh on a fresh platform since the 2006 lexus, and since this is scheduled for 3-4 years that’ll be 20 years in the same basic chassis.
      And what has all that spending got them? 3 series sales are down by more than 1/2 from their peak in the US and 2/3 in Europe. Everyone's buying X1-X4s instead, and I'd wager the majority of those buyers don't give a flying **** about new engines and platforms. They want a big box with a blue and white roundel on the hood.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

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      06-17-2020 10:37 PM #120
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      And what has all that spending got them? 3 series sales are down by more than 1/2 from their peak in the US and 2/3 in Europe. Everyone's buying X1-X4s instead, and I'd wager the majority of those buyers don't give a flying **** about new engines and platforms. They want a big box with a blue and white roundel on the hood.
      Now this, I think you're right on.
      "First, I'm going to go down on you real slow and make you happy. Then I'm going climb up and fvck you hard." - Gas Prices

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      06-17-2020 10:38 PM #121
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      And what has all that spending got them? 3 series sales are down by more than 1/2 from their peak in the US and 2/3 in Europe. Everyone's buying X1-X4s instead, and I'd wager the majority of those buyers don't give a flying **** about new engines and platforms. They want a big box with a blue and white roundel on the hood.
      1. We're talking about enthusiast vehicles here, and Lexus has basically given up competing against the Germans on that front. No more IS-F, GS cancelled, IS left to wither and die, etc, etc.

      2. Regarding suv's and cuv's there's no Lexus I'd take over German counterparts.

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      06-18-2020 01:41 AM #122
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      So you have finally reached the point where you will say literally anything for a response.
      Name ONE benefit of a RWD platform for a commuter appliance like this.

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      06-18-2020 04:36 AM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      And what has all that spending got them? 3 series sales are down by more than 1/2 from their peak in the US and 2/3 in Europe. Everyone's buying X1-X4s instead, and I'd wager the majority of those buyers don't give a flying **** about new engines and platforms. They want a big box with a blue and white roundel on the hood.
      And each variant of those X vehicles have used the exact same drivetrain options as their equivalent sedan/wagon model. I'd say it's worked out pretty well for them, especially since they managed to release the latest M engine in an X series vehicle before its equivalent M3/4.
      20 BMW M2 CS
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      06-18-2020 04:53 AM #124
      Quote Originally Posted by gti5dr06 View Post
      thing is if youre not going for performance or handling, generally speaking rwd is wasted. You lose a ton of interior volume. When I drove the GS350 F sport its def tuned for safe understeer vs say the tail happy tuning of the BMWs. To put it in perspective the ES has more legroom than even the LS series due to the packaging as aforementioned and the average lexus buyer just wants a good interior, leather, and comfortable space in the back. The IS is trash in this regard.
      It might not be a racing car but in the real world the IS is a perfectly fine and capable automobile while being a much better long term bet than any of the small German sedans in terms of ownership. I doubt any 3 series, A4 nor C-class could compare.

      Trash? We're not talking about a Lada here, it's still a Lexus using very well proven drive-trains that will give owners long term, fuss-free ownership, that is really the cornerstone of any Toyota. Their entire empire is largely built on that.
      Last edited by chopWet; 06-18-2020 at 06:11 AM.

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      06-18-2020 06:15 AM #125
      Quote Originally Posted by chocofrappe55 View Post
      Name ONE benefit of a RWD platform for a commuter appliance like this.
      It's like you've never driven a RWD car, the steering feel tends to be quite different for one and cars that compete in this sector are supposed to offer something a bit more exclusive than regular cars, that's why these premium focused brands have RWD or some form of all wheel drive. Lexus isn't a commuter appliance, a base model Corolla/Yaris/Prius is.

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