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    Thread: New 2021 Lexus IS will premiere on June 9

    1. Member CostcoPizza's Avatar
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      07-01-2020 04:45 PM #151
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      I don't take anything here seriously, which is why I enjoy it so much

      And no I don't think a sub model costs more to develop than the whole model; I didn't say anything that would even imply that mathematical impossibility. They cost more to develop than a run of the mill lease special, which is absolutely the case. They have to develop the base car, then beef it up for enthusiast cred. That costs money.
      I'd wager BMW's M division has probably never been cheaper to develop. They amortize all their coupe/sedan costs with SUVs. And all share engines.

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    3. Member
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      07-01-2020 05:41 PM #152
      Quote Originally Posted by TetsuoShima View Post
      VW was never really in the sports car game. They've always had the GTI and GLI if you want to reach and group hot hatches into that term. Lexus failed because Toyota in general has zero sporty fiber left since the mid 2000's and even then they were on life support with just the Celica. Since then, they teamed up with both Subaru and BMW and now likely Mazda. Sports cars are coming from Toyota, Lexus and Mazda just wait. Honda also ramping things up with the new TLX and Type S variants...I think today is literally the best time for enthusiasts and that was just from the notoriously conservative Japanese manufacturers. Can't forget all the sporty cars from the Germans and American cars as well.

      Do you mean failure in the sense of enthusiast offerings? I guess I could agree with that, but I still contend that it doesn't matter. "Winning" enthusiasts over is a pyrrhic victory, as you have to keep pushing the limits of performance and development while butting up against stricter regulatory constraints. Again if I ran a car company I'd much rather sell boring crossovers and sedans. The Camry remained mechanically unchanged for a decade, and everyone was cool with it.

      Objectively now is the best time for enthusiasts and there are still some unique gems, but they are kind of few and far between. Want 3 pedals? Hope you like coupes and/or turbo 4 bangers. Natural aspiration? It's either the Miata, BRZ, pony cars or six figure exotics. Well, and the IS350 I guess. So a lot of these objective performance gains- which, by the way, enter the realm of damn near unusable on the street very early in price BTW- come at the expense of variety and character.

      I mean the failure of Lexus F kind of speaks to how ridiculous things have got. Even though roads haven't changed in decades, and traffic conditions are generally worse than they used to be, somehow a characterful 467HP isn't enough. In 15 years, the M5 will make 1000HP, weigh 5000lb and bleat + fart like a dying sheep. All to get the 0-60 time a little lower. Doesnt quite make sense to me.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

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      07-01-2020 07:08 PM #153
      Quote Originally Posted by CP1 View Post
      Of similar size/weight, one can tell whether a vehicle is FWD or RWD on a reasonably fun driving road (one can also usually tell if it's RWD or AWD for the same model).






      The normal people who actually purchase lux vehicles have spoken.

      All the full-size FWD/transverse lux sedans have just about disappeared - can't see the Continental continuing on for much longer and that'll leave just the S90 (which doesn't sell much at all here) and the ES, which only sells at the volume it does b/c it is priced at the entry-level price-point (unlike the others which were priced at the mid-segment price-point).

      Audi has understood this FWD/RWD axiom by 1st never offering the A7 and A8 here in FWD form and then by doing away w/ the FWD A6 and then the FWD A4.

      And note, all the full-size FWD/transverse lux sedans were priced one segment down from their RWD counterparts, or in the case of the ES, 2 segments down.
      Doesn't have anything to do with FWD and instead it's the decline of sedans in general.

      Nonetheless this refreshed IS looks really good. It looks like they touched every body panel but the dated carryover interior is unfortunate.

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      07-01-2020 07:08 PM #154
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Do you mean failure in the sense of enthusiast offerings? I guess I could agree with that, but I still contend that it doesn't matter. "Winning" enthusiasts over is a pyrrhic victory, as you have to keep pushing the limits of performance and development while butting up against stricter regulatory constraints. Again if I ran a car company I'd much rather sell boring crossovers and sedans. The Camry remained mechanically unchanged for a decade, and everyone was cool with it.

      Objectively now is the best time for enthusiasts and there are still some unique gems, but they are kind of few and far between. Want 3 pedals? Hope you like coupes and/or turbo 4 bangers. Natural aspiration? It's either the Miata, BRZ, pony cars or six figure exotics. Well, and the IS350 I guess. So a lot of these objective performance gains- which, by the way, enter the realm of damn near unusable on the street very early in price BTW- come at the expense of variety and character.

      I mean the failure of Lexus F kind of speaks to how ridiculous things have got. Even though roads haven't changed in decades, and traffic conditions are generally worse than they used to be, somehow a characterful 467HP isn't enough. In 15 years, the M5 will make 1000HP, weigh 5000lb and bleat + fart like a dying sheep. All to get the 0-60 time a little lower. Doesnt quite make sense to me.
      The problem is that most people get hung up on the numbers game and don't appreciate character. The F cars are some of the most entertaining and soulful vehicles out there, but that doesn't sell. The RC-F isn't perfect, but to this day I still grin when I think of my time at Toyota/Lexus Canada and getting to cane the RC-F on the track at Mosport. Savagegeese explains this better than anyone ever could.

      Edit: I realize I'm a bit of a hypocrite as the 370Z could easily be substituted for the Lexus F cars, but I could never get on board with how they felt.

      Last edited by unhappymeal; 07-01-2020 at 07:10 PM.

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      07-01-2020 07:14 PM #155
      Quote Originally Posted by chocofrappe55 View Post
      I drive a RWD BMW daily most of the year. I drive FWD CLA 3-4 months a year. They just drive "different" because they're different cars. Not one is better than the other. CLA is lighter and way more agile and fun. Has nothing to do which WD it is, R or F. If I didn't know I would never tell. There's NO difference to FWD/RWD in real world driving.



      What dynamics? Accelerating from 0-30mph on a straight street? Taking a slow turn to your grocery store parking. It's all complete and utter nonsense. The car is a car, it runs and drives, that's it. NOONE can tell a difference, NOONE feels a difference, NOONE cares about some subtle intricacies of this BS. This "sports" Lexus is not more sports than a Corolla Sport. There may be a few weirdo that can say that they do feel a big difference, but in my books they're idiots. Normal people will never tell or care about this dumb FWD/RWD crap, they only care about comfort and utility. To them the car simply accelerates, brakes and turns. That's it. How it does it is irrelevant. Noone races 4-door Lexuses. EVER.
      Please stop embarrassing your self. My wife and I can absolutely feel the difference between our FWD-biased Golf R, G90, Miata and ATS before that. One car wants to pivot around you when you rotate through a sweeper on the high way or go through a roundabout. The other drags you through the corner and you can feel the mass over the nose. That you cannot is telling.

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      07-01-2020 08:47 PM #156
      Again you don't even have to turn the car to feel the difference between FWD, RWD and AWD. Pull up to a red light, and when it goes green stomp the go pedal. My boss' Accord 2.0T struggles with grip in the dry even with traction control on. chocofrappe is trying to make up for boring opinions with mindless Jalopnik hyperbole, and failing.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

    8. Member Cutandthrust's Avatar
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      07-01-2020 09:08 PM #157
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      LOL


      The current I4 turbo and 3.5 V6 are expected to be retained with minimal change. But supposedly there will be a limited run of IS500 as the final send off for Lexus V8. Rumor is it will be a cruiser not a bruiser.
      Is the LC V8 axed? Seems like that is still a newish platform to kill off.

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      07-01-2020 10:04 PM #158
      Quote Originally Posted by unhappymeal View Post
      Please stop embarrassing your self. My wife and I can absolutely feel the difference between our FWD-biased Golf R, G90, Miata and ATS before that. One car wants to pivot around you when you rotate through a sweeper on the high way or go through a roundabout. The other drags you through the corner and you can feel the mass over the nose. That you cannot is telling.
      Don't feed the troll.

    10. Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      07-02-2020 10:09 PM #159
      Quote Originally Posted by TetsuoShima View Post
      Is CTK the new Ross1013? I remember in 2010 Ross was whining about how enthusiast vehicles were the past. Then the Twins came, and he still started to whine, then the Type-R came, then the Supra and now I don't think he's even around anymore.

      You're wrong CTK. Just stop here, you have some value to add to these forums don't want you to go extinct like a certain user now
      CTK is far more respectful than Ross. There are a few others that have taken Ross's place, one or two in this thread even.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    11. Member vb22's Avatar
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      09-12-2020 09:31 PM #160
      https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/190311

      Although existing in the predecessor, the IS F, whose settings have been postponed in the current model, will be revived. It is prepared as a hidden ball at the timing of the minor changes introduced above. The engine demonstrates 481ps/54.6kgm with V8 and 5L NA, which is also installed in RC F.

      Lexus IS F (scheduled to appear in November 2020, image is the best car expected CG)

    12. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      09-12-2020 11:19 PM #161
      Quote Originally Posted by vb22 View Post
      https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/190311




      Lexus IS F (scheduled to appear in November 2020, image is the best car expected CG)
      Looks like the current IS is squinting its eyes and furrowing its forehead.

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      09-13-2020 05:28 AM #162
      Quote Originally Posted by TetsuoShima View Post
      Is CTK the new Ross1013? I remember in 2010 Ross was whining about how enthusiast vehicles were the past. Then the Twins came, and he still started to whine, then the Type-R came, then the Supra and now I don't think he's even around anymore.

      You're wrong CTK. Just stop here, you have some value to add to these forums don't want you to go extinct like a certain user now
      Let's start from step 1.... Where did I say enthusiast vehicles were the past?

      Bonus points if you can post a quote of Ross saying the same. God bless that little Great Value Ben Shapiro troglodyte. I hope he has found peace and is doing ok

      Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

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      09-14-2020 04:53 PM #163

      IRL

      I think they nailed the styling of this, too bad the interior didnt get touched much.

    15. Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      09-14-2020 10:32 PM #164
      Quote Originally Posted by tejlab View Post
      I think they nailed the styling of this, too bad the interior didnt get touched much.
      Don't break what ain't broke. I remember everyone going nuts when this interior dropped years ago. I still love it, just not in me-too black.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

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      09-15-2020 05:30 PM #165

    17. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      09-15-2020 05:35 PM #166
      what a disappointment

    18. Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      09-15-2020 05:50 PM #167
      The biggest thing I am looking for is how much better it handles. Obviously, a LOT of stuff is carry over, so what else is left really?
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

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      09-15-2020 07:16 PM #168


      If Lexus would just show us the ISF or IS500 whatever, then this facelift is worth it.

    20. Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      09-15-2020 07:22 PM #169
      Quote Originally Posted by got-rice View Post

      If Lexus would just show us the ISF or IS500 whatever, then this facelift is worth it.
      This.

      Although I fear a V8 won't happen again.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

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      09-15-2020 08:14 PM #170
      New IS with Bangle butt?? The car still look like a decade old sedan to me specially the interior. 2021 car with CD player slot!!?? I haven't touched a CD/DVD disc for decade...
      Last edited by Avus; 09-15-2020 at 08:20 PM.
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    22. Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      09-15-2020 08:39 PM #171
      Quote Originally Posted by Avus View Post
      New IS with Bangle butt?? The car still look like a decade old sedan to me specially the interior. 2021 car with CD player slot!!?? I haven't touched a CD/DVD disc for decade...
      But the Lexus demo has. Toyota/Lexus are successful because they stick with stuff that works and has worked for years and that people are used to using.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

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      09-15-2020 09:02 PM #172
      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      But the Lexus demo has. Toyota/Lexus are successful because they stick with stuff that works and has worked for years and that people are used to using.
      It is a good excuse for no innovation or improvement.

      they also stick with the stuff that NOT work for years like their stupid touch pad and infotainment system. Does this IS still have the AWD HUMP at the driver side?

      Last edited by Avus; 09-15-2020 at 09:06 PM.
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      09-15-2020 09:07 PM #173
      I find it funny that Lexus has a lot of fanboys online, especially you see in Youtube comments, but sales say otherwise when compared to Ze Germans...these guys watched too much Initial D and drank too much bubble tea.

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      09-15-2020 09:17 PM #174
      Quote Originally Posted by got-rice View Post
      I find it funny that Lexus has a lot of fanboys online, especially you see in Youtube comments, but sales say otherwise when compared to Ze Germans...these guys watched too much Initial D and drank too much bubble tea.
      Agree, on the (Toronto) road, I saw most IS (mostly AWD model) are driven by young Asian mom/ladies. In TCL, most will probably buy something like S3, RS3, Golf R... when they put their own $$ on the line.
      “I am not a Mac user unless under duress.” - John Carmack

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      09-15-2020 11:48 PM #175
      Quote Originally Posted by got-rice View Post
      I find it funny that Lexus has a lot of fanboys online, especially you see in Youtube comments, but sales say otherwise when compared to Ze Germans...these guys watched too much Initial D and drank too much bubble tea.
      I feel that Lexus hasn't been able to capitalize on the "fun" and sporty aspect of luxury cars. They thrived in the 90s and 2000s because we didn't have AMG/M/S# lite everything and you couldn't get a really great exhaust note with burbles and DSG farts back then for fairly cheap. These buyers don't want old man lux, they want sporty and European.

      Nowadays, Lexus isn't even on my radar. Really underwhelming engines, cramped interiors, a god awful infotainment that made the first gen iDrive look like a MacBook.
      Quote Originally Posted by KevinC View Post

      If the next GTI has over 300 hp off the showroom floor, I'll eat my airedale.

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