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    Thread: Piston skirt wear

    1. Member mrgti1983's Avatar
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      06-27-2020 03:24 PM #1
      16v PL engine

      History not known but pistons were seized due to sitting. Looking at rebuilding the engine but wanting to use as many original parts as I can. Wondering if this wear is considered normal wear and if this piston can be reused.


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    3. 06-27-2020 06:32 PM #2
      seen far worse than that being put back into an engine. are you bores looking ok? quickest way to check the amount of wear, is to take the top piston ring off, push it down the bore and measure the end gap ( at various points in the bore). you could also measure the piston to bore clearance with a decent set of long feeler gauges.

    4. 06-27-2020 06:38 PM #3
      wouldn't worry too much about small marks on the piston skirt. try rubbing it with a scotchbrite, then post another pic of the result

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    6. Member mrgti1983's Avatar
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      06-27-2020 07:48 PM #4
      Bores look like they are in bad shape but this is my first engine rebuild so not sure if they can be honed and if so would that mean an oversized piston would be needed regardless.

      Currently all the engine shops are backlogged till early fall. So just cleaning and measuring parts.




    7. 06-27-2020 10:00 PM #5
      yeah one of them looks pretty rusty. get yourself a sheet of 240 grit wet/dry sandpaper and some wd40. try buffing up the worst bit first. it might look worse than it actually is.

    8. Member mrgti1983's Avatar
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      06-28-2020 12:21 AM #6
      Welp


      Noticable pitting on upper cylinder






      Not sure of the total travel distance of the Pistons on a PL engine but it looks like this is in an area above the pistons travel

      I guess my question is, is there hope for this block without having to put a lot of money in it?

      Thanks for the replies so far!
      Last edited by mrgti1983; 06-28-2020 at 12:34 AM.

    9. 06-28-2020 09:59 AM #7
      You're going to need an overbore. There is no other way to go about it.

      So the choices are another engine or a large machine shop/parts bill.

    10. 06-28-2020 11:25 AM #8
      needs a rebore for sure. possibly 1mm over. pretty sure you could use an 8v block if its easier/cheaper to source. will be missing the piston oil squirters and the block front breather, but that's no big deal.

    11. 06-29-2020 10:15 AM #9
      I'm certain you can convert most blocks to oil squirters. Looks fairly simple to do.

    12. 06-29-2020 02:18 PM #10
      if the engine has rifle drilled rods I wouldn't bother trying to fit piston oil squirters. there will be plenty oil spraying around from the small end anyway

    13. Member mrgti1983's Avatar
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      06-30-2020 03:46 PM #11
      Thank you all for the responses, for now I'll continue with cleaning and marking parts as I decide where I want to go for the build.

    14. 06-30-2020 11:43 PM #12
      You gotta buy pistons and the size does not affect the price. 84mm 11:1

    15. 07-02-2020 09:38 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by DbilasTDI View Post
      You gotta buy pistons and the size does not affect the price. 84mm 11:1
      84mm! can they be bored that much?

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      07-03-2020 12:07 AM #14
      I don't see anything wrong with the piston skirts. That is not a sealing surface.

      Did you ever verify if the corrosion at the top of the bore is below where the top ring rests?

    17. 07-03-2020 09:10 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by B1-16V View Post
      I don't see anything wrong with the piston skirts. That is not a sealing surface.

      Did you ever verify if the corrosion at the top of the bore is below where the top ring rests?
      you can see the mark where the top ring stops, and it looks like there's some pitting below it.

    18. 07-03-2020 09:53 AM #16
      if the pistons are in good shape, you could always have the block sleeved to standard bore, and buy new rings. no idea what that would cost though but might just be cheaper than new pistons.

    19. 07-03-2020 11:14 AM #17
      Clearly the bores are no good. Machining is needed before that block can be successfully used again. You probably could go to 84mm but the machining bill may be more [it may need to be bored 2-3 times to get to that amount]. I personally would not go any further than needed.

      A good machine shop is not cheap so get their advice. Maybe rough boring it to find out how bad the walls are and finish boring it when you get the right size pistons.

      Either way, the block is worthless as is.

      Converting the block to oil nozzles would help with cooling not necessarily lubricating the pin. There is not enough oil from any rod to aid in cooling.

    20. 07-03-2020 05:02 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
      Clearly the bores are no good. Machining is needed before that block can be successfully used again. You probably could go to 84mm but the machining bill may be more [it may need to be bored 2-3 times to get to that amount]. I personally would not go any further than needed.

      A good machine shop is not cheap so get their advice. Maybe rough boring it to find out how bad the walls are and finish boring it when you get the right size pistons.

      Either way, the block is worthless as is.

      Converting the block to oil nozzles would help with cooling not necessarily lubricating the pin. There is not enough oil from any rod to aid in cooling.
      rough boring??? would that be to just cut down an inch or so, until all the pitting has gone?

    21. 07-03-2020 09:22 PM #19
      I'm no machinist but my understanding is that they bore the cylinder to the basic size and the final bore size is done by honing to the piston you give them. So if it takes 82mm to clean it up, then I would buy 82.5 pistons.

    22. 07-04-2020 01:42 PM #20
      had a look on ecp over here. only have std and 0.5mm over pistons. £360 for 4, which isn't to extreme. can get 82mm 8v 0nes for £250,

    23. 07-06-2020 08:46 AM #21
      if funds allow, I would be sourcing some 9a pistons and 147mm conrods. that way you get an 1847 with a better rod angle and possibly a lighter piston too

    24. Member mrgti1983's Avatar
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      07-07-2020 01:22 AM #22
      All good info, thanks for all the responses. Currently the better engine shops in the area are all backlogged until likely fall. So in the meantime I cleaned, lightly oiled and labeled what parts I have. Currently turning my attention to resolving some leaks on the current engine/tranny setup and maybe replacing bushings to stiffen up the front end.

    25. 07-07-2020 12:22 PM #23
      84mm no problem
      ABT did 84 in 1.8 16V
      Bertil did 85 in high$ racing engines

      specify a chamfer on top edge of piston and you can use stock gasket

      I built a 84 x 94.5 into a 1.8 16V and 84 x 95.5 16V from ABA block.

    26. 07-07-2020 08:53 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by DbilasTDI View Post
      84mm no problem
      ABT did 84 in 1.8 16V
      Bertil did 85 in high$ racing engines

      specify a chamfer on top edge of piston and you can use stock gasket

      I built a 84 x 94.5 into a 1.8 16V and 84 x 95.5 16V from ABA block.
      looks like it would cut pretty close to the main oil galley. got me thinking now

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