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    Thread: Golf R, most overrated "performance" hatch of the decade ?

    1. 06-28-2020 07:51 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by elite.mafia View Post
      all seasons vs summer tires... its a big difference... also VIR is a very tight twisty track.
      The R did not have all seasons and the VIR is one of the longest.

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    3. Member Ttone74's Avatar
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      06-28-2020 07:52 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by ghost03 View Post
      Of course you can get it with all-seasons, it’s a practical 4-dr hatchback. At least around here summer tires are a non-starter for many; why wouldn’t VW handicap the car on the track if it means more sales? And most track enthusiasts are going to get rid of OE summers anyway in favor of something <200TW.

      As far as the lap time, I think it’s actually pretty amazing that the Golf R is that close with all-seasons. C/D never should’ve tested it that way IMO as it’s a pretty huge asterisk, but there’s probably an easy 5 seconds there with proper tires.
      I agree, tires are the most important aspect of tracking a car. All seasons are a joke! Wouldn’t be surprised if the test R had an issue that hurt its time as well. It is sooo mich faster than a GLI/GTI in a straight line. You can tune an R and chop super cars all day long. What is overrated about that?
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      06-28-2020 07:53 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
      The R did not have all seasons and the VIR is one of the longest.
      Yes it did. This was an early mk7 R too, not a 7.5 (which came with summers).
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      06-28-2020 07:54 AM #29
      I mean, I wouldn’t spend $40k on one. But I definitely wouldn’t spend $40k on a Subaru either. Twist my arm and I take the R, because the inside is a nicer place to be.

    6. 06-28-2020 07:54 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Ttone74 View Post
      Yes it did. This was an early mk7 R too, not a 7.5 (which came with summers).
      It had summers so did all of the GTI's they tested. I am trying to find a test sheet but it seems they don't upload them anymore.

      Here you go:

      2015 Golf R

      STANDARD FEATURES:

      -19" alloy wheels w/ summer performance tires


      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...agen-Baltimore
      Last edited by MonsterM; 06-28-2020 at 08:07 AM.

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      06-28-2020 07:58 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
      No it did not.
      Prove it then instead of going back and forth like an 8 year old.

    8. 06-28-2020 08:00 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by UncleJB View Post
      Prove it then instead of going back and forth like an 8 year old.
      See my post above. I am trying to find more info. Maybe someone else can chime in. I have seen the test sheets for the GTI and all of them had summers. There is no mention of AS tires in any of the R tests.

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      06-28-2020 08:43 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
      It had summers so did all of the GTI's they tested. I am trying to find a test sheet but it seems they don't upload them anymore.

      Here you go:

      2015 Golf R

      STANDARD FEATURES:

      -19" alloy wheels w/ summer performance tires


      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...agen-Baltimore

      My 2016 Golf R (18" wheels) came with summer times and my 2019 Golf R (19" wheels) came with summer tires -- I am not aware of the Golf R having any type of no-cost all-season option unless it's just a particular dealer swapping them since they can probably resell the summers for more than the all seasons they swap for them.

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      06-28-2020 08:49 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
      See my post above. I am trying to find more info. Maybe someone else can chime in. I have seen the test sheets for the GTI and all of them had summers. There is no mention of AS tires in any of the R tests.
      You're right, they don't appear to mention what tires the R had in their 2015 Lighting Lap.

      But in the LL writeup of the GLI they say the difference is due to tires.

      I suppose the Hankooks could be head and shoulders above the 2015 OE summer tire option, but reading between the lines I assumed they're saying the R had All-Seasons.

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      06-28-2020 10:04 AM #35
      This thread is stupid, but I feel compelled to reply anyways, which probably says more about me than the thread...

      So forgetting track lap times because honestly 99.5% of Golf/Jetta drivers will never care and I'm going to use the Canadian pricing levels because that's what I'm familiar with. Thus follows my thoughts on the GLI vs GTI vs R.

      GLI (CAD 33K) - tons of car for the money, looks decent, big trunk. If you want a sedan I think it's a solid choice. My biggest beef with it, not having driven it, is the front seats. They are less sporty, less bolstered, than the seats we get in top trim regular Golfs in Canada. There seems to be zero side support in them and combined with the leather surfaces I'm thinking they would be a huge negative. My old Alltrack had way nicer, more supportive seats than the GLI does.

      GTI (CAD 36K) - super fun, I loved driving the MK7 GTI, it definately has a more playful feel than the R does. The one I drove was on HP all seasons which had it's up and downs. The downs was that it would spin it's front tires at WOT up to about 60kph. The ups was that the back end would step out when flung into turns. Other reviews says the car understeers way too much (Savagegeese), perhaps that's the behaviour you get with summer tires? IMO you can't go wrong with a GTI, but I think in Canada the base trim at 30K is the one to buy, the Autobahn is too close in price to the R.

      R (CAD 42K) - fast, no drama, other than the speed. I don't remember the GTI I drove to be anywhere near as fast as the R I own, maybe because of traction issues? The R just does everything well, maybe too well, but that excellence is what makes it a great everyday driver. I think my favorite thing about the R is the short gearing, driving it with gusto means you are ripping through the gears which isn't an experience many new cars offer. My only real beef with the R is the 19" wheels which IMO are 1" too big. I'm constantly on guard for potholes and you really notice the lack of air volume and high pressure in the ride. I feel compelled to have THREE sets of wheels and tires for the R, 19 with summers for summer, 18 with HP all seasons for shoulder season and road trips and 17 for winter.

      For me R vs GTI basically came down to the AWD for winter driving. I know FWD with good winter tires is absolutely fine for winter driving, that's what I drove in winters for over 20 years. The main difference between FWD and AWD in winter for me is FUN, FWD with electronic nannies just isn't fun on snow at all for me. I wanted a car that's fun in the winter and the AWD R beats the FWD GTI hands down in that regard.

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      06-28-2020 10:17 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by KrisA View Post
      This thread is stupid, but I feel compelled to reply anyways, which probably says more about me than the thread...

      So forgetting track lap times because honestly 99.5% of Golf/Jetta drivers will never care and I'm going to use the Canadian pricing levels because that's what I'm familiar with. Thus follows my thoughts on the GLI vs GTI vs R.

      GLI (CAD 33K) - tons of car for the money, looks decent, big trunk. If you want a sedan I think it's a solid choice. My biggest beef with it, not having driven it, is the front seats. They are less sporty, less bolstered, than the seats we get in top trim regular Golfs in Canada. There seems to be zero side support in them and combined with the leather surfaces I'm thinking they would be a huge negative. My old Alltrack had way nicer, more supportive seats than the GLI does.

      GTI (CAD 36K) - super fun, I loved driving the MK7 GTI, it definately has a more playful feel than the R does. The one I drove was on HP all seasons which had it's up and downs. The downs was that it would spin it's front tires at WOT up to about 60kph. The ups was that the back end would step out when flung into turns. Other reviews says the car understeers way too much (Savagegeese), perhaps that's the behaviour you get with summer tires? IMO you can't go wrong with a GTI, but I think in Canada the base trim at 30K is the one to buy, the Autobahn is too close in price to the R.

      R (CAD 42K) - fast, no drama, other than the speed. I don't remember the GTI I drove to be anywhere near as fast as the R I own, maybe because of traction issues? The R just does everything well, maybe too well, but that excellence is what makes it a great everyday driver. I think my favorite thing about the R is the short gearing, driving it with gusto means you are ripping through the gears which isn't an experience many new cars offer. My only real beef with the R is the 19" wheels which IMO are 1" too big. I'm constantly on guard for potholes and you really notice the lack of air volume and high pressure in the ride. I feel compelled to have THREE sets of wheels and tires for the R, 19 with summers for summer, 18 with HP all seasons for shoulder season and road trips and 17 for winter.

      For me R vs GTI basically came down to the AWD for winter driving. I know FWD with good winter tires is absolutely fine for winter driving, that's what I drove in winters for over 20 years. The main difference between FWD and AWD in winter for me is FUN, FWD with electronic nannies just isn't fun on snow at all for me. I wanted a car that's fun in the winter and the AWD R beats the FWD GTI hands down in that regard.
      If the prices are that close in Canada, it’d be a pretty tough call. Down here, I think I could get a GTI SE or GLI Autobahn for about $10k less than a R. I think for a lot of people a GTI is 90% of a R at 75% of the cost. But, obviously, we aren’t too worried about snow.

    13. Member fireside's Avatar
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      06-28-2020 10:41 AM #37
      V6 and Turbo 4 Mustangs and Camaros with their respective "handling" or "performance" packs run circles around all of these economy cars in terms of driving dynamics and track lap times at $10k less so why are any of you even arguing hot hatch vs hot hatch lol.

      EDIT: $36k STICKER gets you

      EcoBoost 2.3L with upgraded 330hp/350tq
      Handling pack with 3.55 torsen, mag ride, 265 width pirelli's on 19" wheels all the way around
      9 Speaker stereo
      Power seat
      Dual zone climate
      Quad tip exhaust with different modes
      SYNC 3
      etc etc.
      Last edited by fireside; 06-28-2020 at 10:45 AM.

    14. Member Ttone74's Avatar
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      06-28-2020 11:08 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by fireside View Post
      V6 and Turbo 4 Mustangs and Camaros with their respective "handling" or "performance" packs run circles around all of these economy cars in terms of driving dynamics and track lap times at $10k less so why are any of you even arguing hot hatch vs hot hatch lol.

      EDIT: $36k STICKER gets you

      EcoBoost 2.3L with upgraded 330hp/350tq
      Handling pack with 3.55 torsen, mag ride, 265 width pirelli's on 19" wheels all the way around
      9 Speaker stereo
      Power seat
      Dual zone climate
      Quad tip exhaust with different modes
      SYNC 3
      etc etc.
      But it is a crappy Ford with no resale value and will break before the warranty expires... And no V6 and 4pot is beating an R, STI, RS or Veloster in terms of handling.
      Last edited by Ttone74; 06-28-2020 at 11:12 AM.
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      06-28-2020 11:08 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by vwwtchr View Post
      I always wondered why the GTI came with a trick electronic diff, but the Golf R came with open diffs, not even a simpler mechanical diff.

      Why not give it every performance option?
      None of the transverse AWD cars have it, not even the ttrs.


      The VAQ diff is massive and sits where the output for the center driveshaft is in the AWD cars.


      They all still have EDL (pretty much any VW with abs since the 80s has) , that combined with th fact that the haldex can basically act as a locked center diff makes for a pretty solid setup.

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      06-28-2020 11:09 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by Ttone74 View Post
      But it is a crappy Ford with no resale value and will break before the warranty expires...
      I'd say Ford is on par with VW if not edges VW out slightly in overall reliability, plus the 2.3L EcoBoost has proven to be extremely stout in longitudinally mounted applications (Mustang, Explorer, Ranger). It does not or did not exhibit the weird head gasket fluke that affected some RS cars. Each marque has their own issues, but Fords are common. You can bring it to any shop or quick lube, grab parts from any corner auto store, etc.

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      06-28-2020 11:11 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by fireside View Post
      V6 and Turbo 4 Mustangs and Camaros with their respective "handling" or "performance" packs run circles around all of these economy cars in terms of driving dynamics and track lap times at $10k less so why are any of you even arguing hot hatch vs hot hatch lol.

      EDIT: $36k STICKER gets you

      EcoBoost 2.3L with upgraded 330hp/350tq
      Handling pack with 3.55 torsen, mag ride, 265 width pirelli's on 19" wheels all the way around
      9 Speaker stereo
      Power seat
      Dual zone climate
      Quad tip exhaust with different modes
      SYNC 3
      etc etc.
      To put it as diplomatically as possible, there’s more to cars than lap times...

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      06-28-2020 11:33 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Taco1933 View Post
      To put it as diplomatically as possible, there’s more to cars than lap times...
      Oh for sure. The original post/topic of the thread is specifically about lap times, though. Furthermore, with magride suspension, I highly doubt the Golf R rides any better. Actually I'd bet money against it. I drove my good friends GT350R with magride and on NORMAL it rode better than my Nissan Frontier pickup lol. Absolutely blew my mind, magride is the real deal. Comfortable as all getout over imperfections but you throw it into a corner as hard as you dare and the car is just flat.

    19. 06-28-2020 12:00 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by fireside View Post
      V6 and Turbo 4 Mustangs and Camaros with their respective "handling" or "performance" packs run circles around all of these economy cars in terms of driving dynamics and track lap times at $10k less so why are any of you even arguing hot hatch vs hot hatch lol.
      All very true actually, but hatchbacks are the ultimate in practicality. I really wish they had designed the Mustang with a liftback and flat folding rear seats. WAY more practical!
      Quote Originally Posted by Taco1933 View Post
      To put it as diplomatically as possible, there’s more to cars than lap times...
      Exactly, like whether or not skis, bags, and two passengers can fit in the back simultaneously... excuse me sir, but do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior Christler Pacifica?

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      06-28-2020 12:09 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      None of the transverse AWD cars have it, not even the ttrs.


      The VAQ diff is massive and sits where the output for the center driveshaft is in the AWD cars.


      They all still have EDL (pretty much any VW with abs since the 80s has) , that combined with th fact that the haldex can basically act as a locked center diff makes for a pretty solid setup.
      QFT; it's not a diff in the "traditional" sense like a Peloquin. VAQ more or less is the center diff, but instead of coupling the final drive to the rear, it couples it to the passenger side output, effectively adding lock. I suppose it's technically possible to make a unit with two clutches in there, but that would really be an upgrade to the Haldex as opposed to just adding what the've done with VAQ.

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      06-28-2020 12:28 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by Ttone74 View Post
      Yes it did. This was an early mk7 R too, not a 7.5 (which came with summers).
      Wrong.

      Every MK7 R came with summer tires from the factory, from 2015 on.

      EDIT: Added "from the factory" before some pedant comes in and says they had the dealer swap all seasons on theirs as proof they didn't "come that way"...
      Last edited by Hostile; 06-28-2020 at 12:39 PM.
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      06-28-2020 12:37 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
      All very true actually, but hatchbacks are the ultimate in practicality. I really wish they had designed the Mustang with a liftback and flat folding rear seats. WAY more practical!
      Do any of the hot hatches have actual flat folding rear seats? I do not remember seeing any pictures flat fold seats over the last two years looking for a replacement for my daily.
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      06-28-2020 12:37 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
      All very true actually, but hatchbacks are the ultimate in utility.
      ftfy
      iain

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      06-28-2020 12:49 PM #48
      I don't buy cars based on spec sheets or lap times. Looks, driving experience, and roominess are what I'd be considering for a sporty car. I believe the jetta has more rear room than a mkvii golf. If I needed the space, that's probably what I'd buy---i wouldn't consider any golf at that point. If rear seat room isn't a priority, the jetta gli is pretty ugly in stock form. I like the gti/r much more and that's what I'd be looking for.

      Between the gti and r, it would come down to what would drive better to me and if I thought the drive is worth the cost. Perhaps if I was really stuck between the two, I might also look into what tunes would do for either car. Not having driven any mkvii, it's all but impossible for me to provide an opinion of whether the r is worth the cost.

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      06-28-2020 01:22 PM #49
      Man this thread brings up so much nostalgia back during the MK4 days where there'd be constant threads debating about VW vs. Hondas, quarter mile times.

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      06-28-2020 01:29 PM #50
      Shouldn't the Veloster N be compared to the GTI and WRX, rather than the R:. and STi?


      The GLI is cheap (mine was 22.5 OTD) but it's cheap for a reason. There are a few small flaws (like the seats that are at best fair, the moronic Electronic brake, weakish AC) but it's manifest flaw is the sluggish nature of the engine under 2100rpm, which combined with the ultra tall, widely spaced gearing makes commuting a chore. I expected better from a brand new car.
      I gave up dailing old and rare cars and became a normie.
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