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    Thread: Spartan Buys Fisker for $2.9 Billion

    1. Member
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      07-21-2020 08:09 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by rlfletch View Post
      I crap on all that isn't Tesla? I own an E-Golf and an Electric Focus before that. We will most likely replace it with a Volvo XC-40 Recharge. The Mach-E is a heat seeking missile aimed right at the Model Y and I love me some Porsche Taycan if only I could afford it. That is neither here nor there. I would say, based on your response, you are the one a bit beholden to Fisker as opposed to me and Tesla.

      It's great your experience with your Karma has been good. The market was not so effusive. From a design stand point it has poor packaging and polarizing styling that spoke to performance it didn't have. From a technology stand point it offered nothing new and did not live up to the hype. Quality, not unlike Tesla, was spotty. It was a very niche product that was unsustainable in the marketplace. Not an idea to invest billions in. Are they on their second or third bankruptcy?

      The Ocean is a nice design with a few innovative features. I giant leap forward from the rich playthings Fisker has produced in the past. But it must be called what it is at this point: A re-bodied VW. Not a bad thing at all, but worth 3 Billion dollars of investment? I think not. I suspect the investors are hoping for another Tesla style valuation rocket ride without understanding the product or its market. The stock market has turned into a giant casino with most investors chasing trends without due diligence. I invested in Tesla back in the day after riding in a Model S and identifying it for its unique qualities and having faith that the Space X guy knows a thing or two about new technologies. I also got real lucky. It is currently is wildly overvalued but part of that is from the lack of innovation from its competitors even after years of development.

      The EV market doesn't need more over hyped and ludicrously valued companies to draw attention away from real progress. Let's reward product innovation not just product marketing.
      I’m not beholden to any particular brand. I applaud and support all innovation. I’m looking to get a Mach E next year and waiting for the Ocean, while enjoying my Karma.

      You make some good points, but it gets lost in the hyperbole. Firstly, the car’s design may have been polarizing, but the reliability was good, except in the minds of people who have not owned the car. And Where do you get “second or third bankruptcy”?? That’s the kind of thing that people say and others repeat. Just false. They had a single bankruptcy. It was forced on them when the US gave them a loan but then asked for it back after only half of it was spent. Go ahead: try that someday. Build a $400mm factory but then when you’re done with just part of it, pay the money back. And the only reason Tesla didn’t go BK was because when the government wanted their loan back, Tesla just issued more public equity. And they were smart enough not to agree to a sales volume as an event of default. They raised $20 billion of capital through 35 rounds. Tesla did fine with that, and credit to them for doing much with it. I’m not saying they haven’t done great, I love their products. But to call $1.9 billion a ludicrous valuation is a bit disingenuous. Tesla had a similar valuation at IPO and had also not yet built or sold a Model S, although they showed a prototype. They had developed some great tech, for sure. But we’re talking valuations of 10 years ago. The market is definitely different. I don’t deny the overall hype in the market. But you could say the same thing about TSLA valuation or AMZN or many others. They don’t make sense from traditional valuation metrics.

      Look: Tesla is great. Created a whole new market. But they were given the chance to do so. If there is a market for mass-produced EVs running on a cheaper, standardized platform, designed and built by various producers that all use VW, why do you want to suppress that? Just let it happen. If you don’t like it, don’t invest. Don’t buy the car. Don’t even look at it. It’s all good. But you started this with “what do they have?” I’m trying to tell you they have something. But when I do, you say “not like Tesla”. No kidding. They’re not trying to be Tesla.
      Last edited by Dave_Car_Guy; 07-22-2020 at 09:16 AM.

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    3. Member rlfletch's Avatar
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      07-22-2020 06:00 PM #27
      I think you continue to mistake my criticism as being leveled at the Ocean itself. I am not. I have repeatedly commended it for being a good concept and hope it does well. My criticism is leveled at the money goons wildly overvaluing the company in hopes of driving the stock to a ridiculous market cap trying to repeat Tesla's success.In the end I think that hurts the EV market and could burden the company into failure for no good reason. We need fewer Lucid's and Faraday's and more Rivian's and Tesla's. I'll just leave this here:

      https://www.thedrive.com/tech/35042/...the-next-tesla
      Last edited by rlfletch; 07-22-2020 at 06:04 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Mercedes typically makes awful manual transmissions and fantastic auto transmissions. Choosing the stick would be like saying, "Y'know, that Natalie Portman is pretty hot, but if she grew some hair on her legs and had a dong, she'd be just right."
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      Was it parked on the curb on garbage day?

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      07-22-2020 07:33 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by rlfletch View Post
      I think you continue to mistake my criticism as being leveled at the Ocean itself. I am not. I have repeatedly commended it for being a good concept and hope it does well. My criticism is leveled at the money goons wildly overvaluing the company in hopes of driving the stock to a ridiculous market cap trying to repeat Tesla's success.In the end I think that hurts the EV market and could burden the company into failure for no good reason. We need fewer Lucid's and Faraday's and more Rivian's and Tesla's. I'll just leave this here:

      https://www.thedrive.com/tech/35042/...the-next-tesla
      Well, I respect that thought of overvaluation. I agree with that completely. But you can't just pick on this one for that. Tesla valuation is crazy as well, as are so many EV-adjacent plays. And just because they are using similar playbooks to get money, doesn't mean they'll all fail and make the EV market worse. We need innovation, competition, and good old fashioned capitalism and greed in order to get some things done. Like you, I hate to see the destruction of capital, but the auto business is full of that. This $1 Billion in cash going into this deal, at a 1.9 Billion valuation pre-money, is a drop in the bucket. Tesla's $20 Billion of spending has created something new and unique, but has it earned it's cost of capital yet? Not yet. Some day... Today's good Q2 earnings are a good additional step.

    5. Member rlfletch's Avatar
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      07-31-2020 07:55 PM #29
      And this is exactly why I question their valuation. They are dependent entirely on other companies tech. This adds cost due to the extra layer of profit taking and clearly impacts their ability to deliver. Not the sort of constraints I would expect in a 3 billion dollar company.

      https://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-dela...nri-1844572271
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Mercedes typically makes awful manual transmissions and fantastic auto transmissions. Choosing the stick would be like saying, "Y'know, that Natalie Portman is pretty hot, but if she grew some hair on her legs and had a dong, she'd be just right."
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      Was it parked on the curb on garbage day?

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      08-01-2020 12:47 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by rlfletch View Post
      And this is exactly why I question their valuation. They are dependent entirely on other companies tech. This adds cost due to the extra layer of profit taking and clearly impacts their ability to deliver. Not the sort of constraints I would expect in a 3 billion dollar company.

      https://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-dela...nri-1844572271
      Yup, you're right. That's a real problem.

    7. Member Vettes, Volvos and VWs's Avatar
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      08-10-2020 03:24 PM #31
      The plot thickens as Fisker hasn't reached a deal with VW AG and is now in talks with Magna

      https://www.reuters.com/article/fisk...-idUSL1N2F91NM
      Quote Originally Posted by Baconator14 View Post
      vettes, volvos, and vws for president
      Quote Originally Posted by UAlvarez View Post
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      My Weak Shiz l Milk █Bg█ Mafia Click here and PM me for Speed-Tech Hood Extensions!

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      08-10-2020 04:30 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Vettes, Volvos and VWs View Post
      The plot thickens as Fisker hasn't reached a deal with VW AG and is now in talks with Magna

      https://www.reuters.com/article/fisk...-idUSL1N2F91NM
      Just FYI, Those are two mutually exclusive deals. The VW deal is for battery/chassis. Rfltech pointed that delay out last week (above). The Magna deal is for assembly/manufacturing, so they can have that deal and still be waiting to talk to VW again. Magna doesn’t solve the platform question yet.

    9. Member Vettes, Volvos and VWs's Avatar
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      08-10-2020 04:37 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      Just FYI, Those are two mutually exclusive deals. The VW deal is for battery/chassis. Rfltech pointed that delay out last week (above). The Magna deal is for assembly/manufacturing, so they can have that deal and still be waiting to talk to VW again. Magna doesn’t solve the platform question yet.
      Interesting, they would use VWs tech and Magna would manufacture if all goes to plan

      Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
      Quote Originally Posted by Baconator14 View Post
      vettes, volvos, and vws for president
      Quote Originally Posted by UAlvarez View Post
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      My Weak Shiz l Milk █Bg█ Mafia Click here and PM me for Speed-Tech Hood Extensions!

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      08-10-2020 05:37 PM #34
      The Wall Street Journal wanted to chat, so I gave them my take... just a couple quotes from an hour long conversation:

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/car-des...in-11596811140

    11. Member rlfletch's Avatar
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      08-10-2020 09:39 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      The Wall Street Journal wanted to chat, so I gave them my take... just a couple quotes from an hour long conversation:

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/car-des...in-11596811140
      Bah! WSJ is paywalled.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Mercedes typically makes awful manual transmissions and fantastic auto transmissions. Choosing the stick would be like saying, "Y'know, that Natalie Portman is pretty hot, but if she grew some hair on her legs and had a dong, she'd be just right."
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      Was it parked on the curb on garbage day?

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      08-10-2020 10:38 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by rlfletch View Post
      Bah! WSJ is paywalled.
      Hmmmm

      Does this link work? Or is that just WSJ again?

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...in-11596811140

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