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    Thread: California Governor Newsom to ban new gas-fueled cars by 2035

    1. Member 2000JettaGLXVR6's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 03:11 PM #1
      No way this goes into effect. We canít even keep the power on when it gets hot for a few days.

      https://www.politico.com/states/cali...y-2035-1317947

      SACRAMENTO ó Gov. Gavin Newsom is calling for California to ban new gasoline-fueled vehicles within 15 years in a bid to combat climate change and make the state the first in the nation to stop sales of cars with internal combustion engines.

      The Democratic governor on Wednesday signed an executive order that directs the California Air Resources Board to establish regulations requiring that all new cars and passenger trucks sold in California in 2035 be zero-emission vehicles.

      California has long been a leader on fuel economy, forcing automakers to build more efficient vehicles than required by federal standards. The Golden State is the world's fifth-largest economy, with more than half of its emissions stemming from the transportation sector, so the move is expected to significantly help reduce tailpipe pollution from vehicles with internal combustion engines.

      The move comes as California experiences historic wildfires that have consumed more than 3.6 million acres this year already. Newsom has repeatedly emphasized the role of climate change in driving the fires, while Republicans have focused on a need to better manage forests in the state.

      "We are marking a new course," Newsom said in a press conference in front of electric vehicles at the state fairgrounds in Sacramento. "We are setting a new marker. We're advancing the cause, with the support of the California Air Resources Board, to once again lead not only this nation but in many respects lead the world."

      The ban on gas-powered vehicles is likely to face opposition from automakers and Republican leaders in Washington, who have already battled the state over its stricter fuel economy rules. The Trump administration is fighting the state in court over whether it can set stricter emissions standards than the nation as a whole.

      California Business Roundtable President Rob Lapsley said in an interview that the "radical step" to ban internal combustion engines "makes no sense" and is a rushed decision, with no guarantee of affordability for many who live in an already-expensive state.

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    3. 09-23-2020 03:21 PM #2
      As long as old (ICE) cars are grandfathered, 2035 is still a long ways ahead.

    4. Member rich!'s Avatar
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      09-23-2020 03:32 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by mrspeedmaster View Post
      As long as old (ICE) cars are grandfathered, 2035 is still a long ways ahead.
      PG&E can declare bankruptcy a few more times between now and then.

    5. Member 2000JettaGLXVR6's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 03:35 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by mrspeedmaster View Post
      As long as old (ICE) cars are grandfathered, 2035 is still a long ways ahead.
      2005 was 15 years ago. Does that seem like a long time ago to you?

    6. Member VWestlife's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 03:40 PM #5
      So that's when the Motor Law finally goes into effect?

      __________

    7. Member smoothsix's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 03:43 PM #6
      Ain't worried.

      It's a goal. If it works, fine. If it turns out to be unfeasible, it'll be changed.
      Supercar owners: If your housekeeper can afford to register their car in your state, so can you.
      We've got an amazing country; don't like the taxes in your state, you can just move. How many other countries have this freedom?

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      09-23-2020 03:46 PM #7
      Sounds like it would be challenged in court also. I would imagine the Governor / CARB doesn't have the authority to outright ban ICE without the legislature passing a law but I'm as far removed from west coast politics as is possible.

    9. Member Nealric's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 03:51 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by smoothsix View Post
      Ain't worried.

      It's a goal. If it works, fine. If it turns out to be unfeasible, it'll be changed.
      This. It depends on the governor 15 years from now to enforce it. It won't happen if it's not feasible.

    10. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 03:51 PM #9
      This either turns out to be completely unworkable, in which theyíll roll it back, or completely unnecessary, in which case no one will even notice.

      If the tech in the Tesla Plaid comes true, 500+ miles of range and crazy speed, plus 15 years of cost advancements, I could see where no one wants an ICE car anymore except as a collector vehicle. It would be like outlawing non-smart phones today; only a few oddball curmudgeons would even notice.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    11. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 04:02 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      This either turns out to be completely unworkable, in which theyíll roll it back, or completely unnecessary, in which case no one will even notice.

      If the tech in the Tesla Plaid comes true, 500+ miles of range and crazy speed, plus 15 years of cost advancements, I could see where no one wants an ICE car anymore except as a collector vehicle. It would be like outlawing non-smart phones today; only a few oddball curmudgeons would even notice.
      The ONLY reason we're in this position now is because Tesla basically said "f it" and went for the moon with EV technology.

      Frankly, I am all for a little regulatory support to get the rest of the industry off its @$$ and get in the game.

      To this day, I only consider Tesla to produce proper, workable EVs and provide the necessary infrastructure to enable it. The Germans are still dragging @$$ on this, and of the domestic carmakers, only GM has made a decent run at the tech....and is wasting those opportunities currently.

      If they put this in place and then they are forced to roll it back, at least there is an effort to goad the laggards (which is to say basically everyone who ISN'T Tesla). I don't think it will happen though, so I consider this to be a no brainer that will encourage more vehicle development.

      I get it, you hate any and all regulation, but I see value in it and Cali is the only place that that regulation will fly.
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    12. Member CostcoPizza's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 04:04 PM #11
      Serious layman question...why not go after small engines first? They pollute just as bad.

      Much less of a strain on the electric infrastructure and can be implemented way quicker than EVs.

      In the early 2020s, however, total smog-forming emissions from small engines are projected to exceed those from passenger cars in the South Coast Air Basin because passenger car emissions will continue to decrease. By 2031, small engine emissions will be more than twice those from passenger cars.
      Source: CA themselves https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fac...ogram%20began.

      Quote Originally Posted by rich! View Post
      PG&E can declare bankruptcy a few more times between now and then.
      Last edited by CostcoPizza; 09-23-2020 at 04:20 PM.

    13. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 04:12 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      The ONLY reason we're in this position now is because Tesla basically said "f it" and went for the moon with EV technology.

      Frankly, I am all for a little regulatory support to get the rest of the industry off its @$$ and get in the game.

      To this day, I only consider Tesla to produce proper, workable EVs and provide the necessary infrastructure to enable it. The Germans are still dragging @$$ on this, and of the domestic carmakers, only GM has made a decent run at the tech....and is wasting those opportunities currently.

      If they put this in place and then they are forced to roll it back, at least there is an effort to goad the laggards (which is to say basically everyone who ISN'T Tesla). I don't think it will happen though, so I consider this to be a no brainer that will encourage more vehicle development.

      I get it, you hate any and all regulation, but I see value in it and Cali is the only place that that regulation will fly.
      I do hate regulation, because I think itís unnecessary and lags the market. Arguably the most aspirational (car) brand in the country, possibly the world, is Tesla and they did it with a superior product*. And others are coming, whether itís the traditional carmakers or new entrants. I donít object to a 100% (or really, 90%, weíll probably always need some sort of ICE or hybrid stuff for certain applications) EV fleet, I think it will be fine.

      I just think this particular regulation is going to end up being silly and virtue-signally; either because it is premature and against natural market forces, or because itís wildly unnecessary. We didnít need to ban the landline to make people see the cell phone was a superior choice for most applications.


      *yes there are some incentives, but I donít believe they sell $50-150k Teslas because the government gives you $2500-7500 off. The things would sell on their own, as evidenced through increased sales even as the incentive has depreciated and expired.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    14. Member landstuhltaylor's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 04:18 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by CostcoPizza View Post
      Serious layman question...why not go after small engines first? They pollute just as bad.

      Much less of a strain on the infrastructure and can be implemented way quicker than EVs



      Source: CA themselves https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fac...ogram%20began.



      Agreed. Drives me nuts to hear the neighbors fire up their two-stroke noise makers to mow/trim their 0.2 acre lots.

    15. Member Nealric's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 04:20 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by CostcoPizza View Post
      Serious layman question...why not go after small engines first? They pollute just as bad.

      Much less of a strain on the infrastructure and can be implemented way quicker than EVs



      Source: CA themselves https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fac...ogram%20began.



      I'm all for banning gas powered leaf blowers. Next door neighbor often has them going at 7AM

    16. Member 2000JettaGLXVR6's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 04:26 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by landstuhltaylor View Post
      Agreed. Drives me nuts to hear the neighbors fire up their two-stroke noise makers to mow/trim their 0.2 acre lots.
      If only Ryobi made a cordless mower that was up to the task of mowing a small lawn on one battery and without bogging down after a few minutes of use. I use a gas mower for my smallish front and back lawns, Iíve bought 1 gallon of gas for it in the last year and a half lol.

    17. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 04:39 PM #16
      Oh for crying out loud, California isn't even supposed to have lawns. They had to import them all in the first place.

    18. Member landstuhltaylor's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 04:40 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by 2000JettaGLXVR6 View Post
      If only Ryobi made a cordless mower that was up to the task of mowing a small lawn on one battery and without bogging down after a few minutes of use. I use a gas mower for my smallish front and back lawns, Iíve bought 1 gallon of gas for it in the last year and a half lol.
      I get 5 mows out of one Ryobi battery. I'm pretty sure I can get an entire season out of two charges of the string trimmer.

    19. Member Nealric's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 04:41 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by 2000JettaGLXVR6 View Post
      If only Ryobi made a cordless mower that was up to the task of mowing a small lawn on one battery and without bogging down after a few minutes of use. I use a gas mower for my smallish front and back lawns, Iíve bought 1 gallon of gas for it in the last year and a half lol.
      They do. I mow a half acre with this:

      https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-20...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

      Takes two batteries, but a small 1/4 acre lawn should be fine with one.

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      09-23-2020 04:43 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by 2000JettaGLXVR6 View Post
      If only Ryobi made a cordless mower that was up to the task of mowing a small lawn on one battery and without bogging down after a few minutes of use. I use a gas mower for my smallish front and back lawns, Iíve bought 1 gallon of gas for it in the last year and a half lol.
      If small enough, a reel mower will work. I have one and it works well, but you have to keep on top of it as the reel mower struggles with long grass.

    21. Member Rob's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 04:43 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      I'm all for banning gas powered leaf blowers. Next door neighbor often has them going at 7AM
      Gas powered lawn mowers too.

      Our neighbour has a Husqvarna robo mower and it is whisper quiet.

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      09-23-2020 04:46 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      I do hate regulation, because I think itís unnecessary and lags the market. Arguably the most aspirational (car) brand in the country, possibly the world, is Tesla and they did it with a superior product*. And others are coming, whether itís the traditional carmakers or new entrants. I donít object to a 100% (or really, 90%, weíll probably always need some sort of ICE or hybrid stuff for certain applications) EV fleet, I think it will be fine.

      I just think this particular regulation is going to end up being silly and virtue-signally; either because it is premature and against natural market forces, or because itís wildly unnecessary. We didnít need to ban the landline to make people see the cell phone was a superior choice for most applications.


      *yes there are some incentives, but I donít believe they sell $50-150k Teslas because the government gives you $2500-7500 off. The things would sell on their own, as evidenced through increased sales even as the incentive has depreciated and expired.
      Unregulated markets don't incentivize conservation of resources.

      Tesla wouldn't exist without government subsidies.

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      09-23-2020 04:55 PM #22
      **** like this is exactly why I hate the politicization of EVs. Like OP said California can barely keep its lights on. And Newsom, like all the other "bold" polticians pushing these mandates, is getting credit for an initiative he will have zero part in implementing. I don't know where Cali and the Feds are on their emissions fight but a new emissions mandate TODAY would be much more meaningful.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

    24. Member VWestlife's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 04:55 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by 2000JettaGLXVR6 View Post
      If only Ryobi made a cordless mower that was up to the task of mowing a small lawn on one battery and without bogging down after a few minutes of use.
      Toro made one in the 1970s:

      __________

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      09-23-2020 04:57 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      I just think this particular regulation is going to end up being silly and virtue-signally; either because it is premature and against natural market forces, or because itís wildly unnecessary. We didnít need to ban the landline to make people see the cell phone was a superior choice for most applications.
      Sidebar, I hate the term "virtue signalling". Literally any stated opinion or choice is a signal of one's virtues............ not just when you disagree.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

    26. Member freedomgli's Avatar
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      09-23-2020 05:19 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      *yes there are some incentives, but I donít believe they sell $50-150k Teslas because the government gives you $2500-7500 off. The things would sell on their own, as evidenced through increased sales even as the incentive has depreciated and expired.
      We waited decades for the market to provide. It didnít. Remember the EV1? Remember when GM took them all back and then did virtually nothing for the next 20 years? Nothing really started happening until government regulations and significant government benefits coincided with significant investment from Tesla and some technological innovations from battery makers. It wasnít just the consumer tax credit. Tesla benefited from many Billions in public funds. Tesla disrupted the status quo and poked the complacent old guard, who still lag behind today. The reason Teslas continue to sell well today is because theyíre standing on the shoulders of their previous success, which was made possible in part by significant government investment.

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