VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner

Why BMW Is No Longer The Leader In Luxury Sales

18K views 214 replies 60 participants last post by  gti5dr06 
#1 ·

CNBC said:
BMW lost its crown as the top-selling luxury brand around the world to fellow German rival Mercedes-Benz. In 2012, the BMW brand led Mercedes-Benz in global annual sales, but Mercedes-Benz gained the top spot in 2016 and has held it since. Mercedes has also surpassed BMW in its home continent of Europe, a major market for both. BMW appointed a new CEO in August 2019 and has assured investors it is on its way to reinvigorating its brand, but progress could be a bit slow.
 
#2 ·
Meh. I actually think BMW will have outsold Mercedes here in the U.S. for 2019 due to MB's awful, issue ridden GLE roll out. There models seem more competitive than ever anyways, I think their dark period has largely ended.
 
#3 ·
BMW lease rates were great before interest rates went up, as in they were better than their competitor's by a significant margin. Nowadays, they are the same if not more in some cases, so there's not incentive to lease a BMW versus any other competing brand.
 
#4 ·
Not so sure BMW's previous success was due to innovation. One of the last 'good' ones was the E90, which was heralded for not innovating. Best selling 328i still had a N/A motor with port injection, RWD, hydraulic steering, and a button radio all the way to 2013.

For their peak years I would make an analogy to a good NYC pizza place--they weren't doing anything exceedingly new or modern or different, rather, they were taking a regular formula (sport sedan) and performing it exceedingly better than the norm.
 
#25 ·
I'll never understand why people keep saying the E9X was the last good BMW. I loved my E91, but let's be honest those things were mass-produced hot garbage. iDrive was crap, anything electric is going to break. A 230HP N/A I-6 is nothing to write home about, at least the fugly F30 328 had some balls with the base engine. Majority of the E9X are beat to hell or off in a junk yard somewhere along with all the E60's. At least I still see some decent E46 examples around, mostly older fiscally conservative folks.

E39 will always be the pinnacle for me. :heart:
 
#5 ·
Will be interesting to see what happens when the BMW 2 "Gran Coupe" rolls out. They might take the crown back. Then again I'd wager the GLB will more than claw that back.

But overall I think MB's top spot is deserved. For plain non-sport trim vehicles MB is tops just on their interiors alone. Beautiful, physical controls, good quality etc. The rest of the vehicles are kind of standard German luxury fare. Haven't heard anything like the twin 2.0T timing chain lawsuits from the other brands either. Solid brand
 
#7 ·
Will be interesting to see what happens when the BMW 2 "Gran Coupe" rolls out. They might take the crown back. Then again I'd wager the GLB will more than claw that back.

But overall I think MB's top spot is deserved. For plain non-sport trim vehicles MB is tops just on their interiors alone. Beautiful, physical controls, good quality etc. The rest of the vehicles are kind of standard German luxury fare. Haven't heard anything like the twin 2.0T timing chain lawsuits from the other brands either. Solid brand
The one that looks like a Kia? :laugh:
 
#6 · (Edited)
I believe it

There are two things that I noticed while in Europe this year.
Mercedes everywhere by a fair margin, followed by BMW and Audi (wasn't sure if they sold Audi's in Germany...). Wagons and plenty of them.

Minus BMW being a cheap lease payment, I am not sure why you would buy a new BMW anymore. They make one desirable car, the last few years BMW has cornered themselves into an awkward 'I am supposed to be the ultimate driving experience, but...' situation, where the biggest embarrassment was with their M3/M4 of recent and scrambling to bring out the Competition package.

Mercedes on the other hand offers a lot of options I want including technology (that BMW was charging or avoiding completely), and options for comfortable great looking sport seats that add to the customized luxury. As for driving experience, the direction BMW has gone has made it easy for Mercedes to catch up.

As for Audi, well, they keep doing what they are doing and I still want one (because maybe I am a fanboy, after going to a VW after owning a few S4's), but the Mercedes AMG C43 wagon (or a sedan if need be) - I mean 2 yrs left in the mortgage is mighty tempting....not sure what really drives me to a BMW dealership besides the out going M2 Competition? Don't really stand out otherwise
 
#11 ·
The sad thing is, now that I'm at a place in my life where I can comfortably afford many new BMW's: I don't care about anything they make anymore (save for the M2 Competition).

They don't produce cars that focus on the driving experience first anymore. The the last-gen 3 and (especially) 5 series signaled an end to that. The early F10 5 series were dramatically off the standard set by prior 5's, and the F30 3 series were awful in anything short of M-Sport guise. The new 3 is supposed to be a better drive than the prior F series, but it's catastrophically ugly and the interior just doesn't feel special. A shame, it's the car I could have seen myself leasing as a step up from my GTI.

I don't know if this due to Green party influence in Germany shifting their focus to technology vs. driving experience, internal company politics, or chasing profits by filling every possible sub-niche with yet another product (which can't mean each of those products has the same R&D attention to ride/drive as when they offered 5 primary model lines). But it seems to be the new reality.
 
#15 ·
The sad thing is, now that I'm at a place in my life where I can comfortably afford many new BMW's: I don't care about anything they make anymore (save for the M2 Competition).

They don't produce cars that focus on the driving experience first anymore. The the last-gen 3 and (especially) 5 series signaled an end to that. The early F10 5 series were dramatically off the standard set by prior 5's, and the F30 3 series were awful in anything short of M-Sport guise. The new 3 is supposed to be a better drive than the prior F series, but it's catastrophically ugly and the interior just doesn't feel special. A shame, it's the car I could have seen myself leasing as a step up from my GTI.

I don't know if this due to Green party influence in Germany shifting their focus to technology vs. driving experience, internal company politics, or chasing profits by filling every possible sub-niche with yet another product (which can't mean each of those products has the same R&D attention to ride/drive as when they offered 5 primary model lines). But it seems to be the new reality.
Funny, I was saying something similar to a buddy not too long ago. Their CUVs are good, as far as CUVs go, but as far as their cars are concerned, whereas they were the benchmark, I rather go elsewhere these days. I lust after the Giulia QF, whereas the F80 was nice but not enough to make me want one badly. I'd take the RS6 or E63 over the M5, etc. The BMWs are still great, and I wouldn't kick one out of bed, but they just don't make me go and configure one and consider when would be a good time to pull the trigger. Yet, here I am always looking at QFs and E63s and such.
 
#12 ·
Since 95% of German luxury car buyers don't care at all about performance, and a large percentage of the remaining 5% who claim to care about performance really just look at the horsepower rating, I highly doubt the driving dynamics of the E90, or the loss of "analogue steering" has any impact on this.

The bigger factors are likely as follows:

(1) BMWs are pretty ugly; recent Mercedes have had beautiful, flowing lines that manage to be minimal, modern, but also classically beautiful, Most recent BMWs (although the 2018+ new models are starting to buck this trend) look like warmed-over Accords or something. Mercedes cars still have a certain presence. BMWs tend not to have such a presence.

(2) BMW now has fewer "$_99/month" lease deals. This drove a trove of 320i and 528i sales in the early/mid 2010's.

(3) BMW can't seem to hit its marketing stride. On countless "high class" sporting events, tasteful Mercedes logos are plastered everywhere, and commercial breaks are replete with classical-music inspired Mercedes slogans like "The best or nothing." BMW seems to have none of this. And the "ultimate driving machine" thing is getting stale; real stale.

And this is all coming form a lifelong BMW lover who no longer owns a BMW. Hell, the only current BMW that excites me even a little is the M2C, but that doesn't fit my current life situation.

I love how some of you seem to think that if BMW re-released a naturally aspirated, port injected manual transmission 328i, that it would cure all sales ailments. :rolleyes:
 
#17 · (Edited)
Since 95% of German luxury car buyers don't care at all about performance, and a large percentage of the remaining 5% who claim to care about performance really just look at the horsepower rating, I highly doubt the driving dynamics of the E90, or the loss of "analogue steering" has any impact on this.
I really do think it does, just not directly.

BMW in the 80s, 90s, and 00s had a sort-of "Certified Good Luxury Choice[SUP]TM[/SUP]" market dominance, the way Yeti coolers, iPhones, Gucci or Vuitton handbags, and Beats or Bose headphones do today. People don't necessarily buy those because they're the best product, but instead, because of some combination of quality, marketing, and the fact that their affluent neighbors/coworkers/etc. all did.

I can't say precisely how any of those products reached their critical mass status (and TBH I think anyone that does have that kind of knowledge is a billionaire), but I have to imagine being high-quality product which yielded good reviews and recommendations and such played a huge part in that. Just like how they


I love how some of you seem to think that if BMW re-released a naturally aspirated, port injected manual transmission 328i, that it would cure all sales ailments. :rolleyes:
Not sure if you're referring to me, but I wasn't implying that, just using it as an example of how they had market dominance without strong innovation. :beer: As far as curing their current ailments, I think they're doing a pretty good job already by doubling down on their CUVs. Before they made the perfect sport sedan, soon I think they'll have the perfect CUV. :thumbup:
 
#14 ·
IMO they used to be the perfect split between performance and luxury and recently I think they have just strayed too far to the performance side. That and they havent designed a good looking car in quite some time, maybe only the e92 and 2 series in the past 10 years.
 
#16 ·
I find rental car lots to be a good judge of sales health. Poor [private] sales typically = higher frequency in the Emerald Aisle. For example, Nissan has been dominating the rental car fleets over the past year and we know how well things are going over there. Anyway just two days ago I was returning at BNA and couldn't help but notice a high number of BMW cars everywhere. At that point I made the comment things might not be doing so well for them and eventually I'll see an article about how BMW is falling behind. Well, here we are. :laugh:
 
#19 ·
I didn't watch the video, but I would say it has little to do with the quality of recent models, and is simply a product of BMW being unfortunately positioned as having the most to lose from threats of growing trendier brands like Tesla and Audi. BMW grew to huge volume through smart product extensions and cheap leases, and that stuff has been slowing down, while there is simply more competition than before.

I think those two brands probably swiped many more sales from BMW than they did from Mercedes Benz.

I do wish the car world would drop the superfluous use of the word "luxury", but it will never happen. A $45k car with 250 hp and just enough space for 4 adults to be comfortable is not "luxury". It's just a degree or two nicer than an average car in most cases.
 
#20 ·
Didn't BMW tell us just a few weeks ago that the ugly pig snout cars are flying off the dealer lots and they can't make 'em fast enough to meet demand?

Mercedes still looks like expensive Mercedes, which is probably why it is selling better than BMW is traditional markets. BMW made the decision to chase tuhao money with questionable aesthetic and it can't expect more sophisticated markets to go along with the crassness of its current batsh1t crazy design.
 
#21 ·
Didn't BMW tell us just a few weeks ago that the ugly pig snout cars are flying off the dealer lots and they can't make 'em fast enough to meet demand?

Mercedes still looks like expensive Mercedes, which is probably why it is selling better than BMW is traditional markets. BMW made the decision to chase tuhao money with questionable aesthetic and it can't expect more sophisticated markets to go along with the crassness of its current batsh1t crazy design.
Had to look that up. Learned something new.
 
#22 ·
I'm sorry but there is so much bull**** in this thread :laugh::laugh: I mean one guy comparing a 5-Series to a base model Camry? Really? Come on...One NBC article and you guys are suddenly all against BMW. This is the company which started the CUV craze in one way or another, even luxury SUVs as we know them today.

I will admit MB has been on the ball with innovation and advertising though. There is just more of a richer, more prominent history with Mercedes. BMW's biggest recent mistake has been the reluctance to accept EVs as the future, regardless of whether or not this is truly the future, I think consumers identify more strongly with a brand that is more future proof, and one that "cares"
 
#23 ·
I can’t find a single reason why I’d buy a 3 series over a C class..

IMO these are all the things that MB does better than BMW:
- seats
- automatic shifter
- reliability in their cheaper models
- reliability in their performance models.. by a huge margin
- infotainment
- luxury
 
#26 ·
I can’t find a single reason why I’d buy a 3 series over a C class..
New 3 is pretty terrible. But I just really can't get over the Vanilla Ice meets Fast n Furious interior design and blob melty exterior styling of modern-day Benz. Shame really.
 
#32 ·
One could argue that BMW's fall started when they tried to replace solid engineering and design with... "innovation" (i.e. superfluous tech)

The inflection point is as clear as day to me:



From the best 7 series of all time to the worst in one generation, all in the name of "innovation". Innovation to what end?
 
#38 ·
Maybe it's the years of garbage reliability catching up to them? The fake rich kids who bought used bmws 10 years ago had the car eat them out of house and home. But now they have the money to buy a new one. But they don't want to, because they know the cars fall apart at 40k. I know 2 people who swore off BMW for life after their experiences with 335s.
 
#50 ·
People are still buying them in droves and they had a great 2019.

They were also the benchmark for interior design and quality, AWD performance, and infotainment for much of the past couple decades. I wouldn't really say it's trend setting in the sense of Tesla, which I equate more to Apple products in the early 2000's, but they definitely influenced the industry. I would say the same for Subaru between 2008-2018 and its approach towards affordable AWD and clever marketing.
AWD, lighting, and interior quality I'll give you. I think Audi's big influence crested by the start of the last decade. And far as infotainment is concerned MMI was just an offshoot of what BMW put down with iDrive. And even that improved dramatically by 2010.
 
#43 ·
Here's the real problem. BMW's are about driving in an age where people don't care about driving anymore. Mercedes and Audi are playing the tech angle. BMW is touting its driving specs and no one cares.
 
#46 ·
This is definitely not the case. The reality is that Audi is still fairly dull to drive. There seems to always be a handful of articles written about how soft every current Audi vehicle is vs various german competitors. So they still suck (IMO), even if they have some pretty designs. So that leaves us with BMW and MB. My thought on this is that they're far more similar than they are different. What you end up with is BMW offering vehicles a little worse than they were in the past and MB cars that are a little better than they were in the past. The result are two companies that offer vehicles that are strikingly similar to each other. I think perception is such that no one wants to buy the "bad" car and people are surprised with the "goodness" of current MB products, so that's where the sales are at the current time. I think this is more of a moving target than anything that's truly news worthy.
 
#44 ·
they say that there aren't any problems with BMW's products (and I would believe that since their sales do keep growing) but I keep hearing so many reviewers comment how BMW's 2- and 3-series keep missing important marks on driving dynamics, steering feel and sportiness...which is BMW's staple characteristics in BMW's halo cars. I would tend to feel that BMW is the brand who's diluted the most in the past 15 years with SUVs, CUVs, front-wheel drive, "soul"less drivetrains and insulation.

Am I alone in thinking this?
 
#45 ·
Am I alone in thinking this?
I haven't driven one lately, but from what I read the previous 3-Series generation was awful. Driving dynamics tailored to China and not in keeping with BMW at all. That really hurt the brand. The new 3-Series is apparently awesome, but there is still huge hang over in perception from previous generation. Will take a while for damage to be undone.
 
#48 ·
I have 3 colleagues that have bought new 330is and absolutely love them. I think it's a really good car.

I feel like the current C-Class is getting really long in the tooth, but the new model is still not out for another 18 months.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top